GPS Time Studies

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Leftinbuilding, Mar 16, 2008.

  1. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    I recently heard that, starting in June, UPS will do times studies using data gained thru GPS. They will not be "on car" at all and will complete 3-4 studies per day. Is this already happening elsewhere? Our little podunk center gets the last of everything so this could be common practice and we wouldn't know about it. How can they calculate "walks" via GPS when non-military GPS is only accurate within 12-20 feet? I love the technology, but foresee problems with this.
  2. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    The same GPS that flashes when I'm at the correct stop? Good luck with that.
  3. tups

    tups New Member

    Possibly another example of something that someone came up with to justify their job.....
  4. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    I was told this past week that the GPS that works in real time is different than the one that works through the DIAD. I may have misunderstood what was being said and didn't have time to hang around and ask questions. I guess we'll see.
  5. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    Could it be any worse, than the ones we have now?
  6. IWorkAsDirected

    IWorkAsDirected Outa browns on 04/30/09

    One of our supervisors told me about this, he thinks it's a joke and so do I. A joke as in "What a joke!"
  7. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member


    You got only partial information.

    UPS will start using a combination of DIAD information, Map information, and GPS information to supplement time study information.

    It will not replace all time studies. It also will not work everywhere.

    A large variable in time studies (especially in residential areas) is the amount to walk to and from the car.

    An I.E. will look at a map, see the GPS information and compare it to the satellite image. This person will make any corrections right there on the map.

    They would mark the park position as well as the delivery location.

    This will be a more accurate description of the amount of walk you do than we have today.

    Go take a look at Google Earth. You can add push pins. They are doing something like that.

    Seems like a good thing to increase accuracy and reduce the time it takes. I would make the study more understandable as well.

  8. IWorkAsDirected

    IWorkAsDirected Outa browns on 04/30/09

    Oh Bull! Another big failure from IE, can they figure all the uphill walks up driveways? How about across the street, a busy street in my case, since pas parks me on the wrong side more than 50% of the time.
  9. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    Of course they cannot see hills from a satellite image. Time study observers measure distances only. I would think that using a map to measure distances would be more accurate than an IE just looking at it and recording their assumption.

    They should be able to see which side you parked on. GPS would show the direction you travelled so they would know that.

    After so many complaints about time study accuracy, I find it interesting that when they try to do something to improve the process, people complain about that too.

  10. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    The only problem pretzel man about the time study, is they havent done one, in at least 15 yrs. Where I am.
    Drivers see one side, you see the other, we are not always wrong, no matter what you may think.
    So Like I said, a gps time study, I dont think could be any worse than one a decade and one half old.
  11. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I'm sure these new GPS Time Studies will work as great as PAS/EDD........enough said!!!:happy2:
  12. bad company

    bad company semi-pro

    I happen to think that PAS/EDD, in general, work well. The major contributing factor to their demise is human error. Bad slaps and misloads = human error. Routes configured incorrectly in EDD = human error. There are several centers in the country that run very well with EDD. I've seen the numbers, and its amazing how some parts of the country can run in trace so efficiently, while others are very poor in their trace percentage. Some centers are very proactive and try to address these issues. Others are satisfied with the status quo.

    My center for example, is satisfied with the status quo. When I follow trace by 80% or better, I am easily between 1.5 and 2 hours over allowed. When I run it my way, approx. 50-70% trace, I run under by an avg. of -.80 (roughly).

    Could my dispatch sup or whoever is in charge change my loop and trace order where I can still run under and have a higher trace percentage? Simply put...YES. Do they...not yet.

    I am not denying that there are issues that need to be addressed, but all in all, they work out ok, assuming that human error is kept to a minimum. The PAS implementation teams are taking a lot longer to implement EDD into centers now, than they have ever before. Hopefully, this means that transitions will be made a little smoother and done more effectively.

    With that said, do you honestly think that when an I.E. time study is done in person, that there are no errors made? They have to count every stop sign and every traffic light, count every step they make, and keep track of your package selection time. They do all this while simutanesly inputting the information into the palm pilot, watching where they are going, and keeping a conversation with the driver (atleast in my case, we talked the whole time). There are several opportunities for human error to be made.

    Surely the GPS based time study will have its issues, especially at first, but I think in theory, it could be done successfully. Remember, time studies take the average time per stop within each shelf section (1000, 2000) etc.. GPS can indicate when a vehicle is stopped and when it starts rolling again. I.E. already has a set package selection allowance, so your package selection time should not vary too much, assuming you follow methods (charge your shelves aka slide stuff foward so that you are not walking to the back of your truck at every stop). Yes you get your occasional odd-size pkg and over 70, but for the most part you can grab and go. And you get extra allowances for over 70s, assuming you key it in.

    They will know how long it takes you from the point you stopped your vehicle, give you a set allowance for package selection, and know when you start rolling again. This data, along with maps, can get a decent average of how long it takes you to deliver a section. In fact, I believe that this technique would benefit the driver with a more generous time allowance, than an actual in-person time study would. They will be able to use this technique for most routes. Baselines, malls, convention centers, and some other "non-traditional" routes will still have to be time studied in person.

    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one, so bring it on. Just don't make me cry :sad-very:... this is simply my opinion.
  13. I don't know what all the fuss is about. Why not save the money and use what they always use...what ever time it takes to do the job times 80%.
  14. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    We are missing the underlying truth matter what technology is used to perform a timestudy, the fact remains that the study itself was never intended to be fair or realistic in the first place. The intent of a "timestudy" is NOT to determine a "fair" amount of work for a given route.....the intent is to create a standard that cannot possibly be met unless the driver works off of the clock. If every timestudy were "fair' and every delivery route in the USA pulled over and took a one hour lunch between noon and one, 30% of the volume in our system on a daily basis would get brought back as missed.
    Expecting UPS to create a "fair" allowance is like expecting a casino to run "fair" games that give the player an equal chance of winning. The house makes the rules----and the house always wins.
  15. brownman15

    brownman15 New Member

    it is true but just remember union does nor recognize time studies
  16. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    I give up.

    UPS wins.

    I'm turning in my retirement paperwork.

    I don't want to be around when this takes effect. I was pretty sure I was ready to do it anyway. This just seals the deal.

    next stop.............
  17. local804

    local804 Well-Known Member

    Means less work for 4 suits, now they only need 3 :)
  18. Coldworld

    Coldworld Well-Known Member

    touchdown!!!! Absolutely right! And the scary thing about the alloted times for all of the methods is that they are averages. So, if the mar for walking up to the door is 8 seconds, there were many who did it faster...huh, how the hell is this possible. Personally,imo, the "numbers" is the biggest crock of dishonesty there is. There were routes I did when I first started that I made 1 hour bonus, and I could pretty much crawl through the route and bonus, but there were other routes that I would speedwalk through and be 2 hours just didnt make any sense. Many towns have better allowance than others and if you have a section of street that is coded for fast delivery time, and your waiting at lights, and have heavy traffic and people walking around then you will never get close to breaking even. I know my route inside and out, I dont spend time sorting, or in the back of the truck. I walk mar and dont have very much interaction with customers. I drive from stop to stop and should at least be in the -15 to +15 range, but I am almost always 1.5 hours over...always, except one time where I had 30 over 70 lb packages and on that day I was like over by .50 or so, which actually I felt pretty good about. Myu point is that the system is set up to have us fail..pure and simple.Why dont they just take the whole damn thing away, save the millions a year they pay out in bonus and call it a wash?
  19. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    you should try a huge mall or shopping plaza route... you really look like a slug on paper
  20. DorkHead

    DorkHead Active Member

    P-Man, How are they going to account for stop signs, traffic lights, and speed limit signs?? Can the satelites see on a angle??