GPS Time Studies

[trplnkl]

I happen to think that PAS/EDD, in general, work well. The major contributing factor to their demise is human error. Bad slaps and misloads = human error. Routes configured incorrectly in EDD = human error. There are several centers in the country that run very well with EDD. I've seen the numbers, and its amazing how some parts of the country can run in trace so efficiently, while others are very poor in their trace percentage. Some centers are very proactive and try to address these issues. Others are satisfied with the status quo.

My center for example, is satisfied with the status quo. When I follow trace by 80% or better, I am easily between 1.5 and 2 hours over allowed. When I run it my way, approx. 50-70% trace, I run under by an avg. of -.80 (roughly).

Could my dispatch sup or whoever is in charge change my loop and trace order where I can still run under and have a higher trace percentage? Simply put...YES. Do they...not yet.

I am not denying that there are issues that need to be addressed, but all in all, they work out ok, assuming that human error is kept to a minimum. The PAS implementation teams are taking a lot longer to implement EDD into centers now, than they have ever before. Hopefully, this means that transitions will be made a little smoother and done more effectively.

With that said, do you honestly think that when an I.E. time study is done in person, that there are no errors made? They have to count every stop sign and every traffic light, count every step they make, and keep track of your package selection time. They do all this while simutanesly inputting the information into the palm pilot, watching where they are going, and keeping a conversation with the driver (atleast in my case, we talked the whole time). There are several opportunities for human error to be made.

Surely the GPS based time study will have its issues, especially at first, but I think in theory, it could be done successfully. Remember, time studies take the average time per stop within each shelf section (1000, 2000) etc.. GPS can indicate when a vehicle is stopped and when it starts rolling again. I.E. already has a set package selection allowance, so your package selection time should not vary too much, assuming you follow methods (charge your shelves aka slide stuff foward so that you are not walking to the back of your truck at every stop). Yes you get your occasional odd-size pkg and over 70, but for the most part you can grab and go. And you get extra allowances for over 70s, assuming you key it in.

They will know how long it takes you from the point you stopped your vehicle, give you a set allowance for package selection, and know when you start rolling again. This data, along with maps, can get a decent average of how long it takes you to deliver a section. In fact, I believe that this technique would benefit the driver with a more generous time allowance, than an actual in-person time study would. They will be able to use this technique for most routes. Baselines, malls, convention centers, and some other "non-traditional" routes will still have to be time studied in person.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one, so bring it on. Just don't make me cry ... this is simply my opinion.

With the discrepancies in your O/U you tell of, how can Pass/Edd be working well? With a 2.3 hour difference something just aint right.

The human error factor is never accounted for in time studies (as far as I can tell). To me one for the biggest fallacies of time studies/allowances is that they are based on a perfect day, perfect left building time, perfect load, perfect condition packages loaded in the car..etc etc. When was the last time anyone had a perfect load? I can't even get a perfect load based on what EDD says it should be, much less one that reality dictates. To tell you the truth I don't give a rats behind why it isn't a perfect load, the fact IS there is NEVER a perfect load. So why base our expected performance on that concept? I don't buy the "average" claim either.
I hope you don't feel that I have flamed you, that is not my intention.
Do you need a tissue?

 

[local804]

To tell you the truth I don't give a rats behind why it isn't a perfect load, the fact IS there is NEVER a perfect load. So why base our expected performance on that concept? I don't buy the "average" claim either.
I hope you don't feel that I have flamed you, that is not my intention.
Do you need a tissue?
[/COLOR]

Oh but Sir, I can bet on your 3 day OJS the route is groomed pretty well, and I am sure many will agree.

 

[bad company]

With the discrepancies in your O/U you tell of, how can Pass/Edd be working well? With a 2.3 hour difference something just aint right.

The human error factor is never accounted for in time studies (as far as I can tell). To me one for the biggest fallacies of time studies/allowances is that they are based on a perfect day, perfect left building time, perfect load, perfect condition packages loaded in the car..etc etc. When was the last time anyone had a perfect load? I can't even get a perfect load based on what EDD says it should be, much less one that reality dictates. To tell you the truth I don't give a rats behind why it isn't a perfect load, the fact IS there is NEVER a perfect load. So why base our expected performance on that concept? I don't buy the "average" claim either.
I hope you don't feel that I have flamed you, that is not my intention.
Do you need a tissue?

Let me repeat what I said..."I happen to think that PAS/EDD, in general, work well". In general, when you look at the statistics of more than just one center and get to see the bigger picture (division, district, region, country) PAS/EDD as a whole, work well. Your experience will vary depending on how well it was implemented and your management team.

My over and under differences can be easily fixed with a fews click of the mouse. I addressed that issue. Since we're on the topic, the PAS team was in my center today making changes based on my recommendations.

I don't know if I can say I've ever had a 'perfect" load, but my loader is definately the best in my hub, and I am fortuante to have above average loads consistantly.

 

[browniehound]

Like someone said, time studies are based on a perfect day and us performing the methods without any errors. I couldn't get the seatbelt on in the alloted time during my study. My arm just can't reach far enough to do it in one motion.

My one other major contention is they only give a certain allowance for a walk to a stop. The "long walk" is only given a certain allowance even if you walk 3-times the distance allowed for a long walk.
Why can't they give us the time it actually takes to walk the stop off? We are encouraged not to back and walk packages off on a dead-end street from the main road. If we are only allowed a certain time, we are going to be over allowed for that stop.

Now, in defense of UPS, I seldom get spoken to unless I'm over by an hour or more. I think our sups. and managers know the time can't be met every day. If you're 1.5 over consistently then you can expect a 3-day happy ride. Sometimes its justified, in other cases its not. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (just a center manager, lol) to know who is milking it and who is not.

Then again, there are other cases where the driver is working his or her tail off and they still get criticized by management. Tooner comes to mind when I say this. I don't know her, but when she says 5 years ago her performance was fine and now when they change the standards she is a 'least best' or whatever they want to call it, I think something is wrong with the IE department there.

I also think her center team would realize this also. I think its shame on them to bust'em when she has been a good driver for so long.

 

[oldupsman]

Do it today JustTired. Don't second guess yourself. It will be like 10,000 lbs taken off your shoulders. It will all work out. It has for me. And remember UPS has not won. You've won.

 

[toonertoo]

Thanks Browniehound!
Actually the last few days have been a little better. Not because of anything they did, just less volume. Do more area. It amazes me that one day I can do 16.5 so they think everyday I can. But thats with a rare day of 200 pkgs. When I get a 350 del piece day, I do like 12, but am the same late. Physics I think would show, you cannot do the same sporh, as you do with 200. Many sups who have been gone since the change said they know its screwed up bad on mine and 3 others, yet they try to hold us to it. When I am 1 hr late I know Im scratch, and I think they do too. Based on what I used to do. Sometimes it bugs me bad, lately it doesnt as much. He yakked this am about 15 ph, then gave me 4 more areas, 10 more miles, and 3 pickups from someone else I had to pull for with a notification of 20 minutes. So it will be what it will. I made the most important stop when I got home. Have a great week.

 

[trplnkl]

One thing that management often over looks when discussing a driver being over is the automatic over when we leave the building late. Start time 9:15 add 8 minutes for the PCM.. 9:23....actually get out of the building, going down the road headed to the first stop.....10:00... 37 minute over allowed before the day gets started. This happens in our center 3 days a week.

 

[brownIEman]

The same GPS that flashes when I'm at the correct stop? Good luck with that.

That is not a failing in GPS. GPS is a proven technology, the military has been using it for decades, as have hikers, surveyors, pilots, sailors, etc. etc. etc.

When you are making a delivery, the GPS knows where on the earth you are. The problem is, how in the heck does the system know where on the earth 2357 E Brownstone Place is to make the check? The satellites cannot tell it that. That information has to be put into a database by someone, at some point. Much of it comes from historical delivery data. It could be UPS got bad coordinate data from a third party such as the USPS. It could be that a Dispatch Supervisor or IE coordinator input incorrect information in a map matching program. It could also be that you, or a cover driver, or a driver who had the route before you, got five miles away and realized they forgot to stop complete that last stop at 2357 E Brownstone Place, and then did so, basically telling the system that address is 5 miles from where it actually is.

 

[tieguy]

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

 

[upsdude]

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

 

[brownIEman]

The only problem pretzel man about the time study, is they havent done one, in at least 15 yrs. Where I am.
Drivers see one side, you see the other, we are not always wrong, no matter what you may think.
So Like I said, a gps time study, I dont think could be any worse than one a decade and one half old.

here in lies the real advantage of these "automated" time studies if we can get them off the ground. It will be easier to complete several time studies by fewer people in a shorter time. Thus districts will be able to get caught up with the in many cases, woefully out of date standards. This will mean some routes that are cake walks to beat by an hour or more will get cleaned up, but so will routes that are always at least 2 hours no matter how fast the driver pushes it.

Hopefully, this tool will give a reasonable picture of a route and allow it to be done in much less time thereby allowing so many distracts that are years behind to get cleaned up.

Will it probably be calibrated to set the bar pretty high in terms of production expectations? Almost certainly, but then, what the heck would be the point of setting the bar low?

 

[1989]

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

And if you don't have to drag a sup with you all the better.

 

[brownIEman]

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

absolutely, a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That language is in the contract. But, um, what exactly constitutes a fair day's work? (fair day's pay is already explicitly defined)

Should it be "their numbers" that is a fair day's work?

Or should it be whatever you feel like you can accomplish that day?

or maybe somewhere in between?

 

[JustTired]

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

Yes , a lot of the time studies are screwed up. But some were just fine until they were adjusted for things like use of the diad, EDD, etc.

If they had been re-time studied after the implementation of these various things (using the old method) then those time studies would more accuratley reflect the real world. But rather than re-study them, they were corrected using an abitrary number that was wishful thinking at best.

Tell me how you can take away time from a system (EDD) that plans your day for you and the end result of that plan amounts to more miles driven and less SPORH. This ,of course, only holds true if you follow trace.

No doubt that using the diad should make your day go a little easier and quicker. But the time savings is nowhere near the numbers projected by IE.

You won't get an argument out of me that the areas need to be re-studied. I just have my doubts about using a system that, while maybe not completely broken, has not woked "as advertised" yet in most places.

Whether it's a problem inherent to the system or just the laziness of the people implementing it, EDD just is not working. At least not working to anybodies benefit (the driver or the companies bottom line).

 

[browniehound]

One thing that management often over looks when discussing a driver being over is the automatic over when we leave the building late. Start time 9:15 add 8 minutes for the PCM.. 9:23....actually get out of the building, going down the road headed to the first stop.....10:00... 37 minute over allowed before the day gets started. This happens in our center 3 days a week.

Trplnkl,
Excellent point. Where I'm from we are allowed 2 minutes for the PCM, ten minutes AM time, and 18 minutes to my area. Problem is, our center manager talks for at least 10 minutes, and our trucks are not loaded when we get on the belt. Then we sit in traffic for 10 minutes because 200 package cars are leaving the builing all at the same time.

So with an 840 start Im supposed to be on area at 9:10 On a good day I'm there at 9:30. Right off the bat we are behind the 8-ball in regards to time allowance. How are we to make this up?

 

[Treegrower]

Couldn't care less. Time study Schtime Schudies. I let them have their talk and then their 3 day ride and then I file on harrasment. End of story. Then after 12 months or so I get a talking to and another 3 day ride and then I file. I get stroked by the usuall. You know, "you are the smoothest" Great methods, We had a great day ! only to be under 8 ond over 10 with a low SPROH. I cant do anything about your numbers nor do I care to. These numbers belong to you. I can't help you. Couldn't care less if they use the Pentgon's spy satellites to map my route. I do the job the way it is prescribed evrything is just smoke.

 

[feeder53]

In my line of business, we use geospacial electronics and it gives a rough estimate only when you take into the mix weather, Traffic, accidents and a thousand other variables so I would not worry about this type of time study. With a missle flying "as the crow flies" at a set rate one would think that we could tell to the inch.....wrong, air pressures, fuel weights......I would not worry.

 

[toonertoo]

here in lies the real advantage of these "automated" time studies if we can get them off the ground. It will be easier to complete several time studies by fewer people in a shorter time. Thus districts will be able to get caught up with the in many cases, woefully out of date standards. This will mean some routes that are cake walks to beat by an hour or more will get cleaned up, but so will routes that are always at least 2 hours no matter how fast the driver pushes it.

Hopefully, this tool will give a reasonable picture of a route and allow it to be done in much less time thereby allowing so many distracts that are years behind to get cleaned up.

Will it probably be calibrated to set the bar pretty high in terms of production expectations? Almost certainly, but then, what the heck would be the point of setting the bar low?

That sounds fair to me. At least before the bogus 5.8 seconds per pkg, that we lost which turned us into 1 or 2 late overnightI knew if I had a good day or a bad day. How it would show up the next day within .15. I knew, now I havent a clue. I realize work has to be measured, I have no problem with that. But the measurment has to be accurate. I used to know how I gained or lost time, the day all the lights are green, and you cruise, all the idiots stayed home, etc. The day from heck when every stop is a battle. . Now its like reading the morning funnies. This is why the luster has gone for many of us. Because we work hard, to get done, not necessarily to make good numbers but to get home at a decent hour. That is a fair day. We know the business is such that some days there will be a 10 or a 12, and no one ever seemed to mind. But now its every day, every month, all yr. And I feel the lack of current accurate studies, is what caused the denegration of employee morale. I remember last summer getting home at dark in June. That should not happen consistently. IMHO

 

[UPSighDown]

I have worked with the GPS data from the DIAD. If the satellite map is good enough and the packages are sheeted by the methods you can tell if the package was left at the front or back door. Our security dept uses it to double check negative driver follow-ups. The problem with the Red/Yellow/Green indicator is as you say the comparison point. It is based on an average of all of the locations that the stop has been sheeted at. If your within 200ft of that spot green light.

If you get a red light where you know you are in the right place you are supposed to ask the sup to reset the stop so it can calc a new average. I bet most drivers have never been told this because the sups have enough to do without resetting a bunch of stops everyday. Besides are you really going to take the time to report it for such a minor issue? Human factor again on both sides and shortsightedness by the system designer for thinking that mechanism would work. It should be a great tool for the driver. Maybe if the reset request was built into the DIAD....

 

[Griff]

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.