Haiti
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
tieguy
Banned
Helping Haiti through this crisis is the right thing to do and should according to several apologist here single handidly wipe out the terrorist threat.
Unfortuately we have to be careful with this once we move past basic aid. This is a poor country that could suck our resources dry if we try to help them beyond the basics.
Unfortuately we have to be careful with this once we move past basic aid. This is a poor country that could suck our resources dry if we try to help them beyond the basics.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The news had a Salvation Army man on this morning and I think he said it best...."Before the earthquake, the Haitian people had nothing. Now they have even less."
On the flip side, I was watching CNN this morning and they were talking about how the Haitians were refusing to eat the crackers because they were confusing the manufacture date with the expiration date and they thought that they were being given leftovers.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I just ran across this that sez Haiti has rather large oil reserves. Never heard this before but if true, seems like this could be a benefit to both the folks in Haiti and to us in the United States who want to locate oil outside the Middle East and closer to home. Drill Here, Drill Now?
Now all the conspiracy nonsense aside, saw one post that said Haiti's earthquake was caused by a US Scalar Weapons attack because of the oil of course (IMO the Scalar Weapons deal falls in the same hat as Pat Robertson and Danny Glover's ideas) but having oil from Haiti on the market could be a real benefit to both the people of Haiti and the people of the United States. If true and for the sake of both sides, I hope they do develop the Haitian oil reserves cause IMO it's a pure win/win.
Now all the conspiracy nonsense aside, saw one post that said Haiti's earthquake was caused by a US Scalar Weapons attack because of the oil of course (IMO the Scalar Weapons deal falls in the same hat as Pat Robertson and Danny Glover's ideas) but having oil from Haiti on the market could be a real benefit to both the people of Haiti and the people of the United States. If true and for the sake of both sides, I hope they do develop the Haitian oil reserves cause IMO it's a pure win/win.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Wkmac,I have never heard that there are oil reserves in Haiti.
If in fact there are --I would agree that it would be a win -win for both countries. One of the problems -would be of course the corrupt goverment that has wasted over two billion in foreign aid.
If the U.S. did set up oil companies I would not like to see another Saudi Arabia --where very few enjoy the wealth and the masses are in poverty.
If the US did the "right thing" and made sure the people benefitted ---would not you be one of the first to cry foul ??
If not you either danny Glover or diesel would !!!!!
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Danny Glover and Deez, in the same breath?
I have never heard that there are oil reserves in Haiti.
If in fact there are --I would agree that it would be a win -win for both countries. One of the problems -would be of course the corrupt goverment that has wasted over two billion in foreign aid.
If the U.S. did set up oil companies I would not like to see another Saudi Arabia --where very few enjoy the wealth and the masses are in poverty.
If the US did the "right thing" and made sure the people benefitted ---would not you be one of the first to cry foul ??
If not you either danny Glover or diesel would !!!!!
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Danny Glover and Deez, in the same breath?
A little humour --I have much more respect for diesel than that. I usually do not agree with him but he is not an idiot. Danny Glover is !!!
JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
An interesting take on the Haiti crisis:
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Jim,
Interesting article but as I read it I also considered this POV. In the case of those having built by the river and been washed away by flood, consider this thought for a moment.
What if there existed at the time, a central power who intervened in human action and created a policy to get more people to live by the river. They extolled the goodness of such action, the economic benefit to all who do so and they even portrayed it all as having no risk. I mean, the central power was saying it was good and we trust the central power so therefore it must be good. If one could show where other forces used and manipulated average folk for the purpose of a larger, less seen agenda, would it therefore suggest another POV when considering the folks who did follow central power desires and build by the river? Agree they still may not be completely innocent but if the only information they were given was false to begin with, I'm not sure just how far complete responsibility on their part should be assigned. Time will have to bare this out and lots of people now are looking more and more at Haiti and finding all kinds of foreign intervention and manipulation for the purpose of outside self interests.
Here's another POV on the matter and thanks for posting the article above.
Interesting article but as I read it I also considered this POV. In the case of those having built by the river and been washed away by flood, consider this thought for a moment.
What if there existed at the time, a central power who intervened in human action and created a policy to get more people to live by the river. They extolled the goodness of such action, the economic benefit to all who do so and they even portrayed it all as having no risk. I mean, the central power was saying it was good and we trust the central power so therefore it must be good. If one could show where other forces used and manipulated average folk for the purpose of a larger, less seen agenda, would it therefore suggest another POV when considering the folks who did follow central power desires and build by the river? Agree they still may not be completely innocent but if the only information they were given was false to begin with, I'm not sure just how far complete responsibility on their part should be assigned. Time will have to bare this out and lots of people now are looking more and more at Haiti and finding all kinds of foreign intervention and manipulation for the purpose of outside self interests.
Here's another POV on the matter and thanks for posting the article above.
JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
Very interesting video.
While I do agree with the premise that first world manipulations of third world economies have detramentally effected said economies, I also have to give thought as to how much responsibility these countries must own up to for the state they find themselves in. If something is imposed on people through the barrel of a gun that is one thing, but being conned into your own demise is another.
In other words, how much should rubes be responsible for being swindled by carnies? Carnies, ofcourse, should be ashamed of themselves...but heck, they are carnies after all. Must not the rube admit to the fact that he is indeed a rube?
In the vein of this conversation, here is a link to two articles that consider the continuing tragedy that we call Africa:
I am not saying I completely agree with any of the three links I posted in this thread. I don't. But I think we must honestly consider the propositions they suggest even though it may be quite uncomfortable to do so.
While I do agree with the premise that first world manipulations of third world economies have detramentally effected said economies, I also have to give thought as to how much responsibility these countries must own up to for the state they find themselves in. If something is imposed on people through the barrel of a gun that is one thing, but being conned into your own demise is another.
In other words, how much should rubes be responsible for being swindled by carnies? Carnies, ofcourse, should be ashamed of themselves...but heck, they are carnies after all. Must not the rube admit to the fact that he is indeed a rube?
In the vein of this conversation, here is a link to two articles that consider the continuing tragedy that we call Africa:
I am not saying I completely agree with any of the three links I posted in this thread. I don't. But I think we must honestly consider the propositions they suggest even though it may be quite uncomfortable to do so.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
As for the 2 links at Taki's, I had seen both those articles but good job in raising them here as they do apply. You are correct about the need of individuals taking responsibility but consider this a moment. You are fishing in your favorite fishing spot and I walk up and sit down and while doing so I'm kicking my feet in the water and poking a stick in the mud stirring up silt. As a result, you get no bites and I turn around and call you a sorry fisherman. But the only true way to see whether you are a good fisherman or not is for me to leave you alone and see what you catch. If you limit out, I like mine pan fried but if not then you have to examine your own ability and then live with the choices you have made.
We've been down there (good or bad) playing in their fishing hole so to speak and all the reaction have been in reference to what they've had to deal with based on our imposing or interventions. Africa may be a basket case but to ignore the 100's of years of European colonialist interventions if not outright occupations as having no effect on the current situation IMO would be foolish. Don't walk behind someone tripping them and then declare to everyone else that they can't walk on their own. Leaving them alone also removes any obligation on the part of taxpayers to in any way shape or form fund, suppliment or subsidize in any way these people or their lands. These monies then could be left alone in the free market economy for free human action to allocate best where these resources should go and right now I'd rather see these monies in the hands of free market forces creating jobs here at home rather than abroad when they typically go to corrupt govt's and back into the hands of various corp. interests who benefit from propping up these corrupt govt's to begin with.
If these corporations want to do bidness in these countries, let them absorb the full cost (including their own security and defense) and not pass any of this onto the taxpayer. It might be then seen that globalization isn't so cost effective after all and that making goods abroad is only cheap because the US laws are crafted to subsidize this and that we are in effect paying even more in reality of what it would cost if we made this stuff here at home even at current labor prices. What is the cost to taxpayers of providing security to keep and maintain transit lanes open for shipping purposes? Is that cost ever included in that "made in China" underwear we buy? Do you think any and all taxes associated with that underwear reflect that cost? If it did and it was included, that underwear price would likely chap you in a place you wouldn't like! And yes, I'm not leaving UPS out of this either. Nor FedEx bbsam!
JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
All I can add is I agree with you 
.
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JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that link. Ted did a great job (as he so often does) with that piece and that subject matter!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Hey Jim,
I found this out at Global Research and thought it fit well into the discussion on Haiti for obvious reasons. Could certain corp. interests with close ties to the US gov't be using said gov't via it's foreign policy apparatus to kick it feet and poke the stick in mud in the fishing hole that is Haiti? For what purpose? What if Haiti developed those fields and that oil entered the global marketplace, what would that inflow of new oil reserves do to the price of oil? Yeah, sounds like Free Market Economics to me too. I can clearly see now why Osama bin Laden attacks us for our freedom and economic way of life. Nobody deserves that much liberty and good living!
Do we dare ask the real reason why we continue to keep Cuba pinned down economically speaking? Hmmm!
I found this out at Global Research and thought it fit well into the discussion on Haiti for obvious reasons. Could certain corp. interests with close ties to the US gov't be using said gov't via it's foreign policy apparatus to kick it feet and poke the stick in mud in the fishing hole that is Haiti? For what purpose? What if Haiti developed those fields and that oil entered the global marketplace, what would that inflow of new oil reserves do to the price of oil? Yeah, sounds like Free Market Economics to me too. I can clearly see now why Osama bin Laden attacks us for our freedom and economic way of life. Nobody deserves that much liberty and good living!
Do we dare ask the real reason why we continue to keep Cuba pinned down economically speaking? Hmmm!
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