Helper Hours
- Thread starter bham brown
- Start date
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
When I am given conflicting and contradictory instructions, I fall back on Article 37 of the contract which states that I am obligated to perform my duties "in a manner which best represents the interests of the Employer."
Generally speaking, the "best interests of the Employer" means that I need to effectively and productively make service on the packages, which is a higher priority than making sure that my helpers hours dont exceed a meaningless, arbitrary number that some pinhead from Corporate pulled out of his ass.
In 23 years of driving, I have never once been talked to about the fact that I kept my helper longer than I was told to.
Magnus
Well-Known Member
dorhugs, your friend needs to stay OFF of the Package Car when he/she is NOT on-the-clock. Suffice it to say in the short-hand that nothing good would happen for either him/her or his/her Driver if they somehow managed to get into an accident or else he/she ended up injured some other way doing their job, but not actually doing their job because technically, they ARE NOT supposed to be there - PERIOD. Your friend AND his/her Driver would get into a hell of a lot of trouble if ANYONE found out what was going on - your friend would be terminated on the spot, but the Driver will merely get a slap on the wrist (warning) in comparison to the HELPER'S punishment for this infraction of corporate policy. Another $8.50 is NOT worth those risks!
On that note, I make Pickups EVERYDAY on the route I am on and handle more than 80% of those services by myself while the Driver does his own thing (lines up the next stops, or else dumps some off himself). I am on the clock and am being paid for services rendered. Whoever is saying we're not allowed to be used for Pickups IS full of BS. There is no rule on the books saying we can't fulfill that duty as part of our "help". The Driver probably makes that call him/herself so that SPORH doesn't take a dump or so that he/she won't get any "clicks" against them by keeping the Helper on the clock during the largely more time-consuming Pickup services. In that event, your friend needs to tell someone what is going on and preferably BEFORE they get caught!
The Driver may be a "cool guy", but that doesn't justify the potentially harmful situation he is putting your friend into by allowing him to sit there during Pickups while not on the clock! Liability is taken seriously at UPS... if you're a Helper off-the-clock, they don't even like you to go into the "employees only" areas of the Hub for much of the same reasons (have had to do that a couple of times) that is why they also DON'T like or else permit ANYONE off-the-clock to be in the Package Car. Period.
On that note, I make Pickups EVERYDAY on the route I am on and handle more than 80% of those services by myself while the Driver does his own thing (lines up the next stops, or else dumps some off himself). I am on the clock and am being paid for services rendered. Whoever is saying we're not allowed to be used for Pickups IS full of BS. There is no rule on the books saying we can't fulfill that duty as part of our "help". The Driver probably makes that call him/herself so that SPORH doesn't take a dump or so that he/she won't get any "clicks" against them by keeping the Helper on the clock during the largely more time-consuming Pickup services. In that event, your friend needs to tell someone what is going on and preferably BEFORE they get caught!
The Driver may be a "cool guy", but that doesn't justify the potentially harmful situation he is putting your friend into by allowing him to sit there during Pickups while not on the clock! Liability is taken seriously at UPS... if you're a Helper off-the-clock, they don't even like you to go into the "employees only" areas of the Hub for much of the same reasons (have had to do that a couple of times) that is why they also DON'T like or else permit ANYONE off-the-clock to be in the Package Car. Period.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Whats really dumb about trying to micromanage and limit helper time is that it is actually cheaper to keep the helper on car for another hour if it will save the driver 12 minutes.
Helper=$8 per hour.
Driver= $45 per hour on OT.
Lets say I am instructed to get rid of my helper at some arbitrary time. If I have to break trace and spend 6 minutes driving him back to his/her car or bus stop and then another 6 minutes driving back to where I was delivering...the 12 minutes of non-productive time I just wasted will cost the company more money than they would have spent by keeping the helper on car for an addditonal hour.
The cubicle-dwellers who pull these arbitrary limits out of their tightly puckered sphincters are trying to control costs. I understand and respect that. I dont use my helper in the AM when I am running off NDA, and I dont use my helper for the rural portion of my route. I use my helper in a manner that will allow me to be as productive as possible, and if that happens to exceed a particular number....too bad.
Magnus
Well-Known Member
I wish every Driver had your stones... I really do. For me, I just get pissed off about the arbitrary hours limit because I'm not helping at all when I'm being kicked off before the work is done (especially on bad days when we have a really bad load and can't find a damn thing because it's not where it's supposed to be or else not there AT ALL), that just brings everything we've done in our few hours together crashing down (can't run in the dark and it's less safe to do without someone else there watching your back).
Mostly, I feel really bad for my Driver when he has to go back out there alone in the dark and do more hours of work over the hour or two we COULD shave off the remaining time TOGETHER so he could get home before 11PM and maybe get to spend a little time with his wife and kids. THAT is what really pisses me off about the whole thing - not the lost $8.50 to me, I could really care less about money even though I REALLY could use it. But the other thing that pisses me off is that I spend $30 in gasoline JUST to meet the Driver and get back home every week... it's barely worth the cost if most of what I'm netting is all just going to be going back into getting to work for me because of the capped hours BS. We go through enough insult without the capped hours being thrown on top of everything else.
So far, from November 25th to last week's check, I've made $300 net after the costs of gas, taxes, Union dues etc. That's half of what I used to make by this same time the other two Peaks (the hour caps have been severe this year). UPS is damn lucky I personally am not in this for the money, but for the shot of getting inside because if I WERE only concerned about the money, I'd have quit three years earlier when I was only making $40 or less a week.
But anyway, glad to see there are Drivers out there sticking up for themselves and their Helpers to do what we're all supposed to do: get the work done efficiently! Kuddos!
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
Sober, as someone who has been a hepler coordinator more times than I care to remember, I would like to say thanks. If what you are saying here is true, you have a refreshing attitude about using helpers. All the numbers of hours given to drivers about using their helpers are based on the drivers own demonstrated sporh and the bump in that sporh the organization would like to see for its investment of putting a helper on the car with the driver.
As a helper coordinator, it was often my job to give drivers a notice at the start of their day telling them how many hours they had with their helper for the day. Lets say hypothetically I was coordinator for the center you drive out of, and one morning I send you a message that you have 2.9 hours with your helper. I look at the reports for the next day, and find out that you kept your helper for 6 hours, yet even with your helpers hours added into your day you beat your route. In effect, you used the helper productively. You worked towards the bests interests of your employer. Why would I take a chunk out of my very busy morning to say anything other than thanks to you?
Now, lets say your brother in the next route over was not so conscientious. Lets say he decided forget the helper coordinator and UPS management, I decide when and how long I use my helper. So he picks his helper up as he leaves the building, they ride for two hours adding about zip during NDAs. Then they run packages for 4 hours, then ride another 2 hours adding again zip during pickups, then help out for 2 more hours to finish the day. This driver effectively gave away 4 hours worth of UPS money for a helper to watch scenery. And the next day, I look and see we paid a helper for 10 hours to help a driver to average half a stop more per hour than they usually do alone. This would be a different conversation. Unfortunately, many drivers unless there are conversations about numbers of hours and when best to use helpers, see the helpers as a chance to have a social outlet on car with them. Which is why the conversations take place.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
I wish every Driver had your stones... I really do. For me, I just get pissed off about the arbitrary hours limit because I'm not helping at all when I'm being kicked off before the work is done (especially on bad days when we have a really bad load and can't find a damn thing because it's not where it's supposed to be or else not there AT ALL), that just brings everything we've done in our few hours together crashing down (can't run in the dark and it's less safe to do without someone else there watching your back).
Mostly, I feel really bad for my Driver when he has to go back out there alone in the dark and do more hours of work over the hour or two we COULD shave off the remaining time TOGETHER so he could get home before 11PM and maybe get to spend a little time with his wife and kids. THAT is what really pisses me off about the whole thing - not the lost $8.50 to me, I could really care less about money even though I REALLY could use it. But the other thing that pisses me off is that I spend $30 in gasoline JUST to meet the Driver and get back home every week... it's barely worth the cost if most of what I'm netting is all just going to be going back into getting to work for me because of the capped hours BS. We go through enough insult without the capped hours being thrown on top of everything else.
So far, from November 25th to last week's check, I've made $300 net after the costs of gas, taxes, Union dues etc. That's half of what I used to make by this same time the other two Peaks (the hour caps have been severe this year). UPS is damn lucky I personally am not in this for the money, but for the shot of getting inside because if I WERE only concerned about the money, I'd have quit three years earlier when I was only making $40 or less a week.
But anyway, glad to see there are Drivers out there sticking up for themselves and their Helpers to do what we're all supposed to do: get the work done efficiently! Kuddos!
Magnus,
your attitude about the work is also commendable, so thank you as well. I have had helpers, few and far between, who also displayed this sort of attitude, and I always tried to reward it with as many hours as I could. There were several times when I would match helpers up with drivers who did not have enough work to be productive beyond a certain number of hours, and then get them matched up with other heavier drivers later in the day, even if it took me driving out to meet the first driver and transport the helper to the second. I also made sure to go out of my way to contact HR and operations management that were hiring inside after peak to relay good references for those helpers.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I have no problem whatsoever with being accountable for the manner in which I use my helper. I am also well aware of the fact that I am "spending" UPS's money and that it isnt my money to give away. And I agree that the scenario you describe is not an acceptable way to utilize a helper.
Where I draw the line is when I am told before I even leave the building that I can only use the helper for 2.75 or 3.99 or 4.12 or some other arbitrary number of hours. The person who invents this number hasnt seen the load in my car, they have no idea of the issues that might occur during my day, and they cannot predict which other drivers in my loop that I may be asked to go and help. Nor do they know how far I might have to drive to take my helper back to his car or the bus stop. The only thing this person cares about is a number on his monitor.
One nice thing about this peak is that my center isnt trying to micromanage helper hours. We have been empowered to make the best decisions we can as far as helper usage, and I am not aware of any drivers who are abusing it.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
This is the same way our center is handling helper hours and, as Sober said, I am also not aware of any drivers who are abusing it.
My helper works in the hub with a starting time of 1530 so I have to ensure he is off road by 1500. This has not been an issue....yet.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
I think you misunderstand that number, which again from my experience would likely come from the fact that you center management or others has not explained it. (which again from experience I would ascribe to them not really understanding it either, but that is another conversation). The number is not "invented" as you put it from whole cloth. It is a calculation based on your own demonstrated SPORH, adding in a helper efficiency value and the actual number of stops planned to your route that day. It is intended to show how many hours using the helper at their planned production efficiency will allow you to get your stops done in a set number of hours (usually starting at 9.5 but then moving to 10 or 11 by peak day).
And it should be treated as a guideline. If the factors of your day change, like number of stops increasing as you take work of another driver, the helper hour allowance obviously also goes up. It is a tool to try to keep efficiency of helper use in mind so it does not become a free for all social thing as I described earlier. Unfortunately, if the conversations do not happen, inevitably, those abuses occur, and they get worse the less the conversations there are about helper hours. Again, from my experience.
As loath as I am to sound cynical I am going to do it anyway. I hope the majority of drivers in your center take the attitude you do about spending UPS' money in the absence of management looking closely at helper utilization. Based on my experiences, I would be willing to bet that some of them are abusing the power you have been given. I believe unreservedly that you are not aware of any, but there is not really any reason as part of your role as a driver that you would be. I would bet you do not make a habit of spying on your fellow drivers, and I would also bet those who are abusing the system intentionally or just by making poor choices with good intentions are not going to be shouting about it at the PCMs.
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
Ever been a driver?
Ever tried to get the big picture, etc. while someone in the jumpseat is running their mouth?
Helpers help us as they should, but many if not most of us see them as a distraction as opposed to a social outlet. Much like an on-car running his/her mouth.
From experience, I assume that you are a know-it-all who thinks most folks that get dirty for a living, and those who manage them directly, are idiots.
Aw, come on. You don't really hate having the market on integrity do you?
Indeed, some of them are.
Don't have to be genious or spy to know that there are takers and know exactly who they are. We end up carrying their load.
Mistakes aside (b/c like it or not you and I both make them), we, the majority, are highly moraled, have high hopes for the company, and therefore do what is and even more than what is expected of us.
You micromanagers are carpet bombing our village for a couple insurgents. We are all in a position to be "managed", but do your job and figure out for yourself who is really costing the company big bucks. Do something about them and have some real respect for the rest of us. Until then, your words of thanks and compliments are hollow.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
No.
I have been on hundreds of trace rides, observation rides, worked as a helper and run routes in emergency conditions. I have talked with drivers about issues on their routes and spent countless hours trying to work with those drives and their center management team to understand and fix those issues. I have a basic understanding of the job. Do I know it as well and as intimately as a driver with years of hands on experience? Of course not, and never claimed to.
How many peaks have you spent as a helper coordinator? Worked with the coordinator to help them deal with 80 plus drivers and 150 or more helpers and make sure all the meet ups happen and all the helpers and drivers are getting along and working efficiently every day? Even talked to a coordinator like a human being about what their role is?
Every time I drive my sister in law anywhere...
It is part of your role as a driver with a helper to manage them and make sure they are helping you and not reducing your team efficiency by being a major distraction. Obviously the relationship with the on car is very different and so your responsibility in managing that relationship is less. If you need assistance in managing the helper better, talk to your center team or the coordinator.
Your experience of me is limited to a few posts on a board. So your assertion about me is therefor based on almost complete ignorance. As with most assumptions based that way, is is completely incorrect.
My assertions are based on my experience with the UPS peak helper strategy and implementation. While not all encompassing, it is much deeper than a few posts on a forum.
I do not believe I have any market on integrity. I fail to see what cynicism has to do with integrity or where in my post I made a claim to any market on integrity.
So we agree.
You seem to be contradicting yourself here. We both just agreed that there are likely drivers abusing the system in Sober's center. Yet you think I am mistaken that Sober would not necessarily know about them if there were. Sober has stated he is unaware of any in his center. So you are saying that if there were any takers in Sober's center, he would know about them (which he says he does not) and yet you also agree there likely are takers in the center. Are you just trying too hard to disagree with everything I say?
Again, we are in agreement.
I am neither a micro manager or a carpet bomber. But to run with your analogy, the carpet bombing is just leaflets. Messages, information. If that is what it takes to get through to the insurgents so be it. It is not like the honest villagers are being blown up, they can safely ignore the leaflets.
Good advice. That is what I try to do. It is not easy, and has in the past cost me a couple peak weeks working 100 plus hours, and countless headaches but sometimes that is part of running a business.
My words of thanks were for Sober, Upstate and Magnus.
I am willing to be wrong, but based on your earlier statements of "I decide when and how long to use my helper" and "helpers are a distraction", I would guess that you would not be the type of driver that would willingly work with me as a helper coordinator in a cooperative way to try and make the best of peak. These phrases to me sound like a driver who will, when the volume is lighter and just starting to ramp up, resist my efforts to match you up with a helper for just a couple hours a day to get them some experience, then when things are really heavy complain to me about my inability to find an experience, knowledgeable quality helper.
If I am correct, you would have no reason to fear receiving any hollow thanks or praise from me.
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
Your erroneous remark that many drivers see having a helper on car as a social outlet is what I allowed to incite me.
When you are being held responsible by Brown for how your sister-in-law dresses, exits/enters the vehicle, treats other's property, understands and utilizes body mechanics, and represents the company, let's talk about how you manage her. My point was, while helpers are a boon during peak, your statement that MANY drivers like the social outlet is, as you said of my statments, based on complete ignorance.
If soberups says he is not aware of something, I believe him. In my experience he has been honest and seems to try and keep everyone's best interest in mind. My point was it is obvious in my own center who the takers are. If you don't want others to comment on your posts, try sending a pm.
I decide how to best use my helper b/c this is one area in which I have yet to experience micromanagement personally, and because my management team and the helper coordinator have trusted my judgement thus far. Based on the trends I am seeing, this will change by next peak.
"cyn·i·cism (s n -s z m). n. 1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others: ..."
www.thefreedictionary.com/cynicism
No i/o or social psychology classes? Your self-serving ("As loathe as I am...") AND doubly-negative statement is indicative of dishonesty. Intelligently well-cloaked version of "I hate to be the one to tell you, but..."
If your ensuing statement is indeed a falsehood, then
might mean "I hope most of your coworkers are wasting the company's money, because management ain't paying attention and I need my job to look more important than it is."
IMO.
Years ago they tried same thing with me. Over 300 stops on car jammed front to back, Preload count was suppose to be low 200 stops that day, I explained to C/M that count was always off..He said I am tired of getting my buddys busted cause You keep your helper too long. So today you keep him 3.5 hours...Ok fine, so after 3.5 hours and only 75 stops done I dropped off the helper and went to lunch for my full hour. Then I called and advised the on car and the c/m they better get some help my way soon as I still had about 250 stops left on car and it was 2:30 pm...My on car came out and we finished about 10:30 pm that night with 325 stops done..Every day after that..you can keep your helper as long as you need him. Glad I am retired from all that crap now
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
First, I never said your statements were based on complete ignorance. I said they were based on almost complete ignorance, or another way of stating this is they are based on very little information. I went so far as to spell out exactly what that information was. Did you miss all that?
Secondly, my statement about drivers using helpers as a social outlet is based on several years working peak as a helper coordinator. Spending hours every day looking at the helper teams of 80 or more drivers and dealing with up to 150 helpers. Looking every day at helper team production and investigating those teams that were not productive. Talking with the driver and the helper, talking with the preloader and coming in to check load qualities. Reviewing drivers and helpers time card information to see when helpers were being used during air delivery and pickups. Training helpers on DIAD and independent delivery, training drivers on prescribed methods for using helpers efficiently and working with them to adjust those methods for there routes and day to day realities.
Maybe you would define all that as total ignorance. I would disagree.
On a side note the sister in law comment was merely about following the seeing habits with non stop yapping. It was also entirely tongue in cheek.
I agree with you here. In fact, I said explicitly that I believe him unreservedly.
That is fine, but that is not what you said. You quoted my post which was a point about the fact that I thought there were likely to be takers as you call them in sobers center and explained why I thought so and why there could be even though sober is not aware of any. You responded that it was easy to be aware of takers, which I took to mean that you felt if there were any takers in sober's center, he would surely know about them, therefor there must not be any.
I have no problem with others making a comment on my posts. Pardon me if I in turn feel free to comment on their posts to correct what I see as faulty logic or incorrect assumptions. If you do not feel it appropriate of me to attempt to point out faulty logic in a post you make regarding one of my posts, I can only offer your own advice and suggest a PM.
I see that the tone that I took your "I decide how to use my helper" comment to be in is entirely different than how you meant it. Which would take the strongest half of my reasons for suspecting you of being like the many difficult and abrasive drivers I have dealt with concerning helpers. As I said, I am willing to be wrong, you have made a strong argument to suggest I was. My apologies.
I see where the mis understanding is. I meant:
cyn·i·cal
3. Negative or pessimistic, as from world-weariness:
Also from the free dictionary.
Bravo, the "As loathe as I am to appear..." is indeed a self serving smarmy way of saying "I am now going to do something I am not regretful of doing, but am going to pretend I am". Again, I was trying to be mildly ironic and funny, which is why I chose the obvious and rather archaic sounding language. I meant it merely as a sort of light lead in to saying I do not believe everyone in the center is using helpers as well as sober and others claim to be. The intent was to make my point while heading off any potential for it to seem I was calling into question sobers integrity.
Based on the way you took it, ironic indeed, no?
Speaking of smarmy, Nice "no i/o or social psychology classes?" Were you trying to be funny or was that a genuine attempt at condescension?
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
In your original remark:
What I said:
hubrat said:
There is a distinct difference between an assumption and an assertion.
I didn't miss a thing:
I would define that as conjecture.
And your assumptions (.."which I took to mean...") about what I say are based on what? A few posts on the BC or years of dealing with drivers "like me"?
No. Your remark that "Many drivers...see helpers as a chance to have a social outlet on car with them" calls into question the integrity of many drivers, at least in your world, no?
Neither. A genuine attempt to point out the fact that you have much less insight into human behavior than you pretend to.
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
No. Are you trying to pit another poster against me because I have ruffled your feathers?
Glad you are willing to be wrong. YOU ARE.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
Ok, my apologies for using them interchangeably. Then I should have said your assumption about me is based on just a few posts on a board. In other words, almost nothing. Your assumption is wrong. You assume I think people who get dirty for a living and those who manage them are idiots. I do not. I will also add that I am in operations management, so, if your assumption were correct, I would be a know it all who thinks I myself am an idiot. Seemingly contradictory. But totally wrong never the less.
OK. How about this. My belief that there are many drivers who misuse the helper system, intentionally or otherwise, are based on my direct experiences with many drivers who have misused the helper system. The driver who picks up his preloader to be his driver helper right from the hub and takes him right when he starts his air. Happened to me several times, and at least once each year I was a coordinator. How about the driver who picked up a customer he got along with one day who mentioned he would like to be a driver helper. Just picked him up from the stop and had him ride the whole day with him (not very productively I might add) running packages in his jeans and t shirt. No hiring process, no browns. Then brought me a timecard at the end of the day with the guys social security number on it. How about the helper who called me one peak to ask to be moved to another driver because the guy she was riding with had made sexually suggestive remarks she found uncomfortable. Coincidently, not a very productive pair, but I am sure he was not looking for a social outlet. How about the driver who left the helper I had assigned him waiting at the meet point, and instead went and picked up his cousin who was assigned to a driver in another center and took him on road instead, and finished with a lower SPORH than he had had on the prior day without a helper.
This is just a small number of the specific instances of drivers not using helpers properly and abusing the system that I have been personally and directly involved in. Forget the many instances I have not mentioned, just these are in opinion, many. Way, way too many. So I stand by my statement that many drivers abuse the system every year. If you want to turn it into a big case of me questioning drivers integrity, so be it. That was not my intent. Some of these examples clearly are a lack of integrity. Some are just really, really poor choices. They are abuses either way.
No, my assumption about what you said are based on the words you used and the context of the ongoing conversation in which you used them.
I don't believe I have spent years dealing with drivers quite like you, and God willing never will. (just kidding with that last in case you were wondering)
No. If we are going to get really specific with each other and our use of semantics, I would not call a driver seeing a helper as a chance to have a social outlet on car with him as any sort of integrity issue at all. I have had drivers who very much enjoyed the company of their helpers, saw them as a social outlet, yet also used them productively. And I have dealt with drivers (note the examples above) where many drivers used helpers as a social outlet in an unproductive manner. Weather from lack of integrity or just poor judgment, I just tried to work with the center, the driver, the helper, and fix the problem.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
Not at all. I am quit enjoying the spirited exchange.
Which I as much as admitted to here:
Are you often in the habit of rubbing peoples nose in an error after they have admitted it and apologized?
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
No. I enjoy the exchange as well. Sorry if I took it to far.
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