How many of you were asked if YOU wanted to give back....

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by BrownShark, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    how many Teamsters on this board were asked if they agreed to giveback 8 months of our current 8/1/2002 thru 7/31/2008 before the Teamsters negotiating committee met with the company?

    Considering that Mr. Hoffa personally made a statement on September 11th 2007 in a joint press conference indicating that the agreement with the CS fund, the Teamsters and UPS would have no direct affect on the remaining contract or its provisions, later its secretly revealed that they gave up 8 months of the curent contract without consulting "us" first.

    This should upset us all.

    There was never any mention of this in all the months leading up to negotiations.

    How many Teamsters on this board understand the ramifications of losing 8 months of our current contract?

    I am just curious to see how people are viewing this element of the agreement.

  2. TheVoice

    TheVoice United Prole. Socialist

    As usual, always strong compelling arguments…I to am a no voter. This topic is something that troubles me as well. But I am interested to hear what you think, perhaps if no other reason than helping me solidify my own beliefs, are the key problems that ratifying the contract eight months early will have. If we have to spell it out for everyone, lets spell it out the whole way, you know.

    Thank you
  3. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    its an interesting questions. You're willing to give a blank check on the strike authorization vote that takes place near contract expiration but don't want to give the same autonomy when they negotiate your terms.
  4. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    Get a life man!
    they were not our terms, that is the problem.
    They forgot us and settled on the terms of the the IBT leaders and the company.
  5. browned out

    browned out Active Member

    Losing 8 months screws any part timer hire in Nov and Dec of this year and drivers in progression. It's all bad.
  6. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Ok, lets talk about this...

    First, lets make something absolutely clear. This new agreement is not a 5 year deal. ANYONE who will tell you so should be considered a LIAR or just plain stupid.

    Assuming this contract passes in its current form, it would begin on January 1, 2008 and expire on July 31, 2013.

    This does NOT equal 5 years!

    Its 5 Years and 8 months. It has been represented that the contract was a new 5 year deal, when in fact it is not.

    Why not be upfront and honest with the membership about the 8 months?

    Well, thats a simple answer.

    Its not in your best interests to know. Not if your a cover driver, an air driver, or a part timer on any list for promotion to the next level.

    You ALL get screwed.

    For those part timers waiting for a 22.3 position, forget about it. Those jobs will be frozen.

    For cover and air drivers, any promotion to full time after Jan 1 will get you a 60 day probationary period that you will probably never pass. The extra 30 days increases your chances of getting into an accident or missing a pickup and that will disqualify you and get you sent back to part time.

    Your progression to full time pay increases to 36 months.

    Now, if you had the benefit of our current contract until july 31, 2008, you would only have a 30 day probationary period and a 30 month progression.

    With an agreement to freeze 22.3 combo positions, all current part timers waiting on the list will never see the position open. Through attrition, and as each combo job loses an employee, the position will be split back into two part time positions.

    Currently, the company is still obligated to create 22.3 jobs until July 31, 2008.

    The 9.5 language will kick in in December 2007.

    Current drivers will have to make a committment for 5 months begining in December 2007 for the periods January 1, 2008 thru June 1, 2008. In addition, current drivers will have to make an additional committment in May 2008 for the periods June 2, 2008 thru October 1, 2008.

    This is ONE YEAR ahead of the contract. Instead of December 2008, we will have to begin this selection process in 2007.

    If a new employee is hired between today and July 31, 2008, they would be entitled to negotiated benefits and wage progressions which would include 30 day probations and 30 month to full pay progressions.

    If the contract begins on January 1, 2008, these new hires lose benefits and holidays for the first year and then be subjected to 60 days probation and 36 month progression to full pay.

    This is a lose / lose scenario for UPS Teamsters across this country.

    In my "personal" opinion, I believe the Teamster Brass made this agreement to offset the CS pension bail out despite the claims from Mr. Hoffa that it would not have any effect on the provisions of the Master agreement. This coupled with the ability to organize the new UPS frieght division made the deal even sweeter for the Union.

    This trade off was enough for the Teamster Negotiating Team, hall, C. Thomas Keegal and Mr. Hoffa to "instruct" the 300 locals whos officers voted unanimously to present the offer to the membership without question. Each local stands to gain new members by organizing UPS freight in their respective areas and this increases the locals revenue.

    In an organized effort, all 300 locals affected met in their respective joint council regions and began a uniformed explanation that would be carried to the membership. It included a scare that UPS would walk away from the table if the membership did not ratify this contract. True or Untrue, this tactic only demonstrates the weakness of the negoitating team.

    ***fact check***
    For the record, I voted for Mr. Hoffa twice, and I personally campaigned for him during my tenure as an EXECUTIVE OFFICER of my local. I am neither a TDU member nor a member of the group.

    Both of these groups however, have made fine points relating to this contract. Each must be given credit for predicting this contracts outcome as they have been talking about this for months now.

    I have personally met with and held meetings with Mr. Tom L over the years and I believe him to be an honest Teamster with the best intentions for the members he represents.

    Say what you want about him, unless you know him personally, you will and cannot know what he believes.

    As for me, I probably wont vote for Mr. Hoffa a 3rd time after seeing this contract. I believe that the Teamsters are at a crossroads for leadership.

    Lets see what the future brings.

  7. Brown shark...your argument is strong and passionate, but I would like to hear or see where these figures are coming from. What can you give us to support your case; documents, articles??
  8. FIST

    FIST Leanitus

    Great insight BrownShark! I too voted for Mr. HOFFA the first time and then next election I knew I made a big mistake. I think Tom L is the kind of Leader our union needs right now. As for your Local (396), the members know they made a big mistake by voting for the current admistration. Remember, not only did they tell members to vote for HOFFA, they we responsible for helping negocitate this tragedy of a contract.