Please Consider

TIMN

Member
This is my first, and probably last post on this platform. As a 33 year Teamster who started at UPS in 1990, business agent and/or principle officer of a local since 2002 I think I may have some perspective which could benefit my brothers, sisters and our union as I’m winding down my career over the next couple years. It Is not my intent to offend or upset anyone, just wanted to offer my experience based opinion in the hopes it may be of benefit to my fellow Teamsters and this great union which has provided so much to so many. Some of my statements and opinions will not be popular but are the truth and based upon my personal, first hand experiences. So here goes….

I do not, on a personal level, care for every union official I’ve worked with over the years but have never witnessed a single official “selling out” the membership. I’m quite certain there are those I have dealt with that do not care for me on a personal level. There have been decisions made with which I disagreed, sometimes vehemently. Despite my disagreeing with some of these decisions, the person or persons involved truly believed they were making the best decision for the members. Looking back, sometimes the decisions I disagreed with turned out to be the best possible decision and I was wrong. Sometimes my concerns proved to be valid. Regardless of whose opinion was ultimately correct, everyone involved honestly had the members best interests at heart.

Hoffa and Taylor did not “sell out” the members and were not in bed with the company. They actually did a pretty damn good job. Not perfect and I’m sure there were some things they wish they could do differently if they could go back in time with the benefit of the knowledge they possess today. O’Brien and Zuckerman aren’t selling us out now and Vairma would not have sold us out had he been elected. Sean and Fred are truly doing the best they can to get the best possible Agreement. Maybe actually trust the people we elected and give them the same benefit of doubt we ask the employers to give to our brothers and sisters.

Stop with the “Vote No” bs at least until you’ve read the actual TA. There will never be an agreement which is perfect and the current one will not be an exception. The question should be “Is this offer acceptable over all and will it improve my families life versus the consequences of refusing the offer?” Your vote belongs to you. I just encourage everyone to make and informed, rational decision not based upon emotion or your dislike of management. If the negotiating committee recommends an agreement it’s usually best to trust they have gotten the best package that can be obtained. They have nothing to gain by short changing us.

Consider setting aside the ego and accept you may not be labor negotiator. Hoffa, Hall, Taylor, O’Brien and Zuckerman have years of training and the experience of actually negotiating labor agreements on a daily basis. They are surrounded by some of the best negotiators, attorneys, economists, etc. in the country. The theory of always voting No on a first offer is asinine. This is not haggling at a flea market.

If everyone would actually trust their elected union officials (and hold them accountable), stop disparaging the union, fellow members and union leaders in social media and check those egos and emotions I think we would all be amazed at the progress which could be made for working families. We’ve been doing just the opposite for 30 years, it may be time to give a little positivity a chance.

To everyone that served on the negotiating committees, all the local and international union staff involved and member activists I would like to personally thank you for your sacrifice and service no matter the outcome. To everyone who reads this, I hope you all have a safe day and long, profitable Teamster careers.

Tim Nichols
 

Its_a_me

Well-Known Member
BS Hoffa was a sell out who took a golden parachute just like the company execs. Wouldn’t be surprised if years from now he is brought up on corruption charges.

as far as current admin. They sold out existing PT’ers for a new higher starting wage (Amazon’s cure wage of 21/hr).

people without MRA’s
new PT hires/less than 2 yr = $4.50 raise
2-4.99 yrs PT = approx 4.00 raise
5-8 year PTers = approx 3.75
8-9.99 years PT =approx 3.25 raise
10-14.99 yrs = 3.75 raise
15+ year PT’ers = 4.25

union screws over PT’ers yet again. the group that has 8-9.99 yrs has it the worst.

full timers screwed over by backload raises that won’t keep up with inflation in yrs 2-3 but won‘t get supplemented by COLA (as 3% or under = no COLA raise).
yr 2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25

this is an all hype contract during company’s best economic times with a low unemployment rate period and people should vote NO

if this is the result of the best unio minds we have it’s time to outsource them
 

DELACROIX

In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
This is my first, and probably last post on this platform. As a 33 year Teamster who started at UPS in 1990, business agent and/or principle officer of a local since 2002 I think I may have some perspective which could benefit my brothers, sisters and our union as I’m winding down my career over the next couple years. It Is not my intent to offend or upset anyone, just wanted to offer my experience based opinion in the hopes it may be of benefit to my fellow Teamsters and this great union which has provided so much to so many. Some of my statements and opinions will not be popular but are the truth and based upon my personal, first hand experiences. So here goes….

I do not, on a personal level, care for every union official I’ve worked with over the years but have never witnessed a single official “selling out” the membership. I’m quite certain there are those I have dealt with that do not care for me on a personal level. There have been decisions made with which I disagreed, sometimes vehemently. Despite my disagreeing with some of these decisions, the person or persons involved truly believed they were making the best decision for the members. Looking back, sometimes the decisions I disagreed with turned out to be the best possible decision and I was wrong. Sometimes my concerns proved to be valid. Regardless of whose opinion was ultimately correct, everyone involved honestly had the members best interests at heart.

Hoffa and Taylor did not “sell out” the members and were not in bed with the company. They actually did a pretty damn good job. Not perfect and I’m sure there were some things they wish they could do differently if they could go back in time with the benefit of the knowledge they possess today. O’Brien and Zuckerman aren’t selling us out now and Vairma would not have sold us out had he been elected. Sean and Fred are truly doing the best they can to get the best possible Agreement. Maybe actually trust the people we elected and give them the same benefit of doubt we ask the employers to give to our brothers and sisters.

Stop with the “Vote No” bs at least until you’ve read the actual TA. There will never be an agreement which is perfect and the current one will not be an exception. The question should be “Is this offer acceptable over all and will it improve my families life versus the consequences of refusing the offer?” Your vote belongs to you. I just encourage everyone to make and informed, rational decision not based upon emotion or your dislike of management. If the negotiating committee recommends an agreement it’s usually best to trust they have gotten the best package that can be obtained. They have nothing to gain by short changing us.

Consider setting aside the ego and accept you may not be labor negotiator. Hoffa, Hall, Taylor, O’Brien and Zuckerman have years of training and the experience of actually negotiating labor agreements on a daily basis. They are surrounded by some of the best negotiators, attorneys, economists, etc. in the country. The theory of always voting No on a first offer is asinine. This is not haggling at a flea market.

If everyone would actually trust their elected union officials (and hold them accountable), stop disparaging the union, fellow members and union leaders in social media and check those egos and emotions I think we would all be amazed at the progress which could be made for working families. We’ve been doing just the opposite for 30 years, it may be time to give a little positivity a chance.

To everyone that served on the negotiating committees, all the local and international union staff involved and member activists I would like to personally thank you for your sacrifice and service no matter the outcome. To everyone who reads this, I hope you all have a safe day and long, profitable Teamster careers.

Tim Nichols

We will read the tentative when it comes out and will voice our opinions and concerns if warranted. Be prepared the truth be known there are a lot of Brown Cafe members that have a lot more experience and knowledge base than you even if we were never in or invited into the inner circle.

Questioning any negative action or discussion directed toward this Contract and previous ones is not degrading our Membership or the International, in fact it is to be expected.

This Contract will be dissected like the one before it, if it deserves our (Yes) vote it will have to earn it by it’s own merits. Most of us quit drinking that Kool Aid a long time ago.

Thanks for your response, very seldom if any do we have a Union Official even acknowledge us on this forum. Sounds like you are retiring soon, best for you and your family, enjoy..

:thumbsup:
 

UPSmechanicinblue

Well-Known Member
This is my first, and probably last post on this platform. As a 33 year Teamster who started at UPS in 1990, business agent and/or principle officer of a local since 2002 I think I may have some perspective which could benefit my brothers, sisters and our union as I’m winding down my career over the next couple years. It Is not my intent to offend or upset anyone, just wanted to offer my experience based opinion in the hopes it may be of benefit to my fellow Teamsters and this great union which has provided so much to so many. Some of my statements and opinions will not be popular but are the truth and based upon my personal, first hand experiences. So here goes….

I do not, on a personal level, care for every union official I’ve worked with over the years but have never witnessed a single official “selling out” the membership. I’m quite certain there are those I have dealt with that do not care for me on a personal level. There have been decisions made with which I disagreed, sometimes vehemently. Despite my disagreeing with some of these decisions, the person or persons involved truly believed they were making the best decision for the members. Looking back, sometimes the decisions I disagreed with turned out to be the best possible decision and I was wrong. Sometimes my concerns proved to be valid. Regardless of whose opinion was ultimately correct, everyone involved honestly had the members best interests at heart.

Hoffa and Taylor did not “sell out” the members and were not in bed with the company. They actually did a pretty damn good job. Not perfect and I’m sure there were some things they wish they could do differently if they could go back in time with the benefit of the knowledge they possess today. O’Brien and Zuckerman aren’t selling us out now and Vairma would not have sold us out had he been elected. Sean and Fred are truly doing the best they can to get the best possible Agreement. Maybe actually trust the people we elected and give them the same benefit of doubt we ask the employers to give to our brothers and sisters.

Stop with the “Vote No” bs at least until you’ve read the actual TA. There will never be an agreement which is perfect and the current one will not be an exception. The question should be “Is this offer acceptable over all and will it improve my families life versus the consequences of refusing the offer?” Your vote belongs to you. I just encourage everyone to make and informed, rational decision not based upon emotion or your dislike of management. If the negotiating committee recommends an agreement it’s usually best to trust they have gotten the best package that can be obtained. They have nothing to gain by short changing us.

Consider setting aside the ego and accept you may not be labor negotiator. Hoffa, Hall, Taylor, O’Brien and Zuckerman have years of training and the experience of actually negotiating labor agreements on a daily basis. They are surrounded by some of the best negotiators, attorneys, economists, etc. in the country. The theory of always voting No on a first offer is asinine. This is not haggling at a flea market.

If everyone would actually trust their elected union officials (and hold them accountable), stop disparaging the union, fellow members and union leaders in social media and check those egos and emotions I think we would all be amazed at the progress which could be made for working families. We’ve been doing just the opposite for 30 years, it may be time to give a little positivity a chance.

To everyone that served on the negotiating committees, all the local and international union staff involved and member activists I would like to personally thank you for your sacrifice and service no matter the outcome. To everyone who reads this, I hope you all have a safe day and long, profitable Teamster careers.

Tim Nichols
Most I know that are full of on no no on this contract are the ones that didn't bother going to the pre contract union meeting,some where not paying dues until right to work was reversed, nor turn in a any proposal at meeting or on the the app ,(Iknow cause I was still downloading it for them at the practice picket) didnt download the app and daily ask daily why are we not getting updates, then no clue what we are we going to go on strike for, and whine they union was going to strike UPS and hurt business. This is no lie I am sad to say Complain they didn't get what they wanted but never asked for!!! LOL
 

mikejonesjr

Well-Known Member
Most I know that are full of on no no on this contract are the ones that didn't bother going to the pre contract union meeting,some where not paying dues until right to work was reversed, nor turn in a any proposal at meeting or on the the app ,(Iknow cause I was still downloading it for them at the practice picket) didnt download the app and daily ask daily why are we not getting updates, then no clue what we are we going to go on strike for, and whine they union was going to strike UPS and hurt business. This is no lie I am sad to say Complain they didn't get what they wanted but never asked for!!! LOL
All I say is if your whole union campaign is reward existing part timers and pay up, I expect more than 50 cents over a new hire at 10 years or so at any company. That’s laughable let’s be honest
 

UPSmechanicinblue

Well-Known Member
All I say is if your whole union campaign is reward existing part timers and pay up, I expect more than 50 cents over a new hire at 10 years or so at any company. That’s laughable let’s be honest
This was a issue talked about at the meetings on how this would be a problem giving new hires and other lower seniority people a raise that would surpass someone with 10 years of service. They didn't know how to reward the ones like you to make it fair and I have not even looked into what you got which what you say it doesn't sound good. UPS did this years ago with part time supervision , they changed the starting wage to what someone with over 20 years of small raises where at. They never rewarded the ones that where there all that time. They need to set it u like the drivers or us. 2 years for mechanics 4 years for drivers you are top rate.If this was changed after years of mixed up pay like the part time people you would have drivers etc complain they where there 20 years and someone with 4 years makes the same. I dont know how they could fix it for you and others, to make it fair, some have over 30 years making over 30 per hour. Sounds like you get a month to get everyone on board to turn it down if needed. Maybe you and others figure out a good propasal. My comment is to the ones that where not involved in asking for anything (you maybe wasn't one of them) now complaining they didnt get something
 

Its_a_me

Well-Known Member
Here is the release the union needs to make and answer to:

PT people without MRA’s year 1 raises:
new PT hires/less than 2 yr = $5.50 raise
2-4.99 yrs PT = approx 4.00 raise
5-8 year PTers = approx 3.75
8-9.99 years PT =approx 3.25 raise
10-14.99 yrs = 3.75 raise
15+ year PT’ers = 4.25

Raises
PT new hires yr2 $0.50
PT new hires yr3 $0.50
PT new hires yr4 $0.50
PT new hires yr5 $0.50 bringing them to $23

PT existing
yr2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25 bring the lowest to $25.75 (vs current 8-9 year employees salary to 27.30).

FT raise
yr 1 2.75
yr 2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25 bring those at top rate to $49.00

You want to splinter a union. Give the guys who have yet to set a foot in the building a $4.50 raise while the 9 year and 11 month employee (the last ones that started at $8.50 an hour in 2013) a $3.25 raise after having screwed them in the 2018 contract by similarly raising new employees to $15 an hour when they were making only $16.45 after 5 years.

Winners of this contract PT‘s new hires & PT‘s with 0-5 years on the job.

THAT ISN’T REWARDING EXISTING PT’s. That is UPS disguising a MRA as a raise.


…and those FT raises in yr 2 & yr 3: absolute joke that won’t cover inflation (which will be close to 3% so COLA won‘t be awarded/won’t make a difference).

Vote NO
 
Last edited:

Jkloc420

Do you need an air compressor or tire gauge
This is my first, and probably last post on this platform. As a 33 year Teamster who started at UPS in 1990, business agent and/or principle officer of a local since 2002 I think I may have some perspective which could benefit my brothers, sisters and our union as I’m winding down my career over the next couple years. It Is not my intent to offend or upset anyone, just wanted to offer my experience based opinion in the hopes it may be of benefit to my fellow Teamsters and this great union which has provided so much to so many. Some of my statements and opinions will not be popular but are the truth and based upon my personal, first hand experiences. So here goes….

I do not, on a personal level, care for every union official I’ve worked with over the years but have never witnessed a single official “selling out” the membership. I’m quite certain there are those I have dealt with that do not care for me on a personal level. There have been decisions made with which I disagreed, sometimes vehemently. Despite my disagreeing with some of these decisions, the person or persons involved truly believed they were making the best decision for the members. Looking back, sometimes the decisions I disagreed with turned out to be the best possible decision and I was wrong. Sometimes my concerns proved to be valid. Regardless of whose opinion was ultimately correct, everyone involved honestly had the members best interests at heart.

Hoffa and Taylor did not “sell out” the members and were not in bed with the company. They actually did a pretty damn good job. Not perfect and I’m sure there were some things they wish they could do differently if they could go back in time with the benefit of the knowledge they possess today. O’Brien and Zuckerman aren’t selling us out now and Vairma would not have sold us out had he been elected. Sean and Fred are truly doing the best they can to get the best possible Agreement. Maybe actually trust the people we elected and give them the same benefit of doubt we ask the employers to give to our brothers and sisters.

Stop with the “Vote No” bs at least until you’ve read the actual TA. There will never be an agreement which is perfect and the current one will not be an exception. The question should be “Is this offer acceptable over all and will it improve my families life versus the consequences of refusing the offer?” Your vote belongs to you. I just encourage everyone to make and informed, rational decision not based upon emotion or your dislike of management. If the negotiating committee recommends an agreement it’s usually best to trust they have gotten the best package that can be obtained. They have nothing to gain by short changing us.

Consider setting aside the ego and accept you may not be labor negotiator. Hoffa, Hall, Taylor, O’Brien and Zuckerman have years of training and the experience of actually negotiating labor agreements on a daily basis. They are surrounded by some of the best negotiators, attorneys, economists, etc. in the country. The theory of always voting No on a first offer is asinine. This is not haggling at a flea market.

If everyone would actually trust their elected union officials (and hold them accountable), stop disparaging the union, fellow members and union leaders in social media and check those egos and emotions I think we would all be amazed at the progress which could be made for working families. We’ve been doing just the opposite for 30 years, it may be time to give a little positivity a chance.

To everyone that served on the negotiating committees, all the local and international union staff involved and member activists I would like to personally thank you for your sacrifice and service no matter the outcome. To everyone who reads this, I hope you all have a safe day and long, profitable Teamster careers.

Tim Nichols
After reading this I'm voting no
 

Jkloc420

Do you need an air compressor or tire gauge
Here is the release the union needs to make and answer to:

PT people without MRA’s year 1 raises:
new PT hires/less than 2 yr = $4.50 raise
2-4.99 yrs PT = approx 4.00 raise
5-8 year PTers = approx 3.75
8-9.99 years PT =approx 3.25 raise
10-14.99 yrs = 3.75 raise
15+ year PT’ers = 4.25

Raises
PT new hires yr2 $0.50
PT new hires yr3 $0.50
PT new hires yr4 $0.50
PT new hires yr5 $0.50 bringing them to $23

PT existing
yr2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25 bring the lowest to $25.75 (vs current 8-9 year employees salary of 27.30).

FT raise
yr 1 2.75
yr 2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25 bring those at top rate to $49.00

You want to splinter a union. Give the guys who have yet to set a foot in the building a $4.50 raise while the 9 year and 11 month employee (the last ones that started at $8.50 an hour in 2013) a $3.25 raise after having screwed them in the 2018 contract by similarly raising new employees to $15 an hour when they were making only $16.45 after 5 years.

Winners of this contract PT‘s new hires & PT‘s with 0-5 years on the job.

THAT ISN’T REWARDING EXISTING PT’s. That is UPS disguising a MRA as a raise.


…and those FT raises in yr 2 & yr 3: absolute joke that won’t cover inflation (which will be close to 3% so COLA won‘t be awarded/won’t make a difference).

Vote
 

TheDudeAbides92

Well-Known Member
BS Hoffa was a sell out who took a golden parachute just like the company execs. Wouldn’t be surprised if years from now he is brought up on corruption charges.

as far as current admin. They sold out existing PT’ers for a new higher starting wage (Amazon’s cure wage of 21/hr).

people without MRA’s
new PT hires/less than 2 yr = $4.50 raise
2-4.99 yrs PT = approx 4.00 raise
5-8 year PTers = approx 3.75
8-9.99 years PT =approx 3.25 raise
10-14.99 yrs = 3.75 raise
15+ year PT’ers = 4.25

union screws over PT’ers yet again. the group that has 8-9.99 yrs has it the worst.

full timers screwed over by backload raises that won’t keep up with inflation in yrs 2-3 but won‘t get supplemented by COLA (as 3% or under = no COLA raise).
yr 2 0.75
yr3 0.75
yr4 1.00
yr5 2.25

this is an all hype contract during company’s best economic times with a low unemployment rate period and people should vote NO

if this is the result of the best unio minds we have it’s time to outsource them
Jimmy Hoffa sleeps with the fishes
 

TheDudeAbides92

Well-Known Member
Hoffa as in James P Hoffa the sellout that forced the 2018 contract through that caused these MRA’s that are now disguised as a raise to 21 for PT’ers.
21 is more than fair to chuck boxes around a warehouse I mean come on. Plus if you been here a while they said they’d add up to another 1.50 right
 

Its_a_me

Well-Known Member
21 is more than fair to chuck boxes around a warehouse I mean come on. Plus if you been here a while they said they’d add up to another 1.50 right
Reading comprehension is needed:

the starting salary people are making out like bandits. The existing ones with 8-9.99 yrs are getting screwed as the UP TO catch up raise is $0.50 for them (5 yrs to 9.99 years don’t get the full $1.50. Neither do the 10-14.99 yrs crowd).

These were the last employees to start at $8.50 an hour and have always been making just a dollar to $1.50 more than a new hire every contract cycle.

That is the issue. If you think 9 years and 11 months should make a dollar more than a new hire then perhaps that is why this union is doomed.
 

TheDudeAbides92

Well-Known Member
Reading comprehension is needed:

the starting salary people are making out like bandits. The existing ones with 8-9.99 yrs are getting screwed as the UP TO catch up raise is $0.50 for them (5 yrs to 9.99 years don’t get the full $1.50. Neither do the 10-14.99 yrs crowd).

These were the last employees to start at $8.50 an hour and have always been making just a dollar to $1.50 more than a new hire every contract cycle.

That is the issue. If you think 9 years and 11 months should make a dollar more than a new hire then perhaps that is why this union is doomed.
Well yeah but the union only care about the starting salary because that’s more money for them to collect
 

The Range

In too deep
Reading comprehension is needed:

the starting salary people are making out like bandits. The existing ones with 8-9.99 yrs are getting screwed as the UP TO catch up raise is $0.50 for them (5 yrs to 9.99 years don’t get the full $1.50. Neither do the 10-14.99 yrs crowd).

These were the last employees to start at $8.50 an hour and have always been making just a dollar to $1.50 more than a new hire every contract cycle.

That is the issue. If you think 9 years and 11 months should make a dollar more than a new hire then perhaps that is why this union is doomed.
Winner

Many of us have been riding the MRA wave for far too long. It's good to create division. The union can't get out of its own way. My gripe is the way O'Brien cited tenured part-timers as a major issue in seeking public support. In the end, this group eats another turd sandwich. As you said, this problem has been festering and should have been addressed instead of used as a convenient talking point for the media.
 
Reading comprehension is needed:

the starting salary people are making out like bandits. The existing ones with 8-9.99 yrs are getting screwed as the UP TO catch up raise is $0.50 for them (5 yrs to 9.99 years don’t get the full $1.50. Neither do the 10-14.99 yrs crowd).

These were the last employees to start at $8.50 an hour and have always been making just a dollar to $1.50 more than a new hire every contract cycle.

That is the issue. If you think 9 years and 11 months should make a dollar more than a new hire then perhaps that is why this union is doomed.
I think you should all make the same after 90 days.
 
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