Is it getting that bad elswhere?
- Thread starter cashmen
- Start date
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Dear Idiot, Non Thinking DM,
First off, did you ever think the problem might be you? I don't call the shots anymore bigboy, I'm just a glorified middle man that you pass edicts to from Corp. and then I pass them down to the lower level troops. I am not allowed to manage my area of responsibility as the needs arise or warrant. I have no say-so in any of these matters and my job these days is mainly a data gatherer for you so you and the other DM's can spend countless hours on useless conference calls with the Dist. Manager, Region Manager or occassionally some wanna-be high flyer in the Corp. office. The ironic part if had any of you ever been a driver for the slightest serious amount of time (90 day wonders don't count as a real driver) you wouldn't need me to gather all this needless data because you could look as the basic reports and figure out very quickly what is really happening. You have Corp. telling you what to do because they know you were never a driver to begin with and have no clue how the real world operates. The bad part is the same folks from Corp. have a little if even less experience than you do at our real world so the only thing they know to do is to get you to get me to feed them what they percieve is useful data so they can then go to the management committee and BULLSCHITT them into thinking they really are knowledgable and smart. To make matters worse, the committtee then turns around and grants them further powers it invoke their BULLSCHITT back into the real world down where it counts and the cycle of misery continues. The sad part is none of us has the guts to tell them they are wrong and the hard data to prove it because that is a career killer at the new UPS so we go along hoping one day to rise above it all and be in position to make a difference but deep down we know that's a bullschitt pipedream that we use just to make ourselves fell better at the stupid misery we've placed ourselves in. Our only goal now is to get those years in so we can get the hell out and away from this circus.
For 20 plus years you've prided yourself on the "we hire from within" policy but you coupled that with an economic policy of starting all PT employees (from which you draft your future FT employee, PT supervisors and your FT supervisors) at the nice wage price of $8 per hour. Now in 1982' that was still pretty damn good but at some point you begin to cross a threshhold where the $8 an hour is not pulling in the top foodchain employee as we once did. In the mid-90's with the management buyout you were sent a big clue with many folks that you wanted to stay left and the ones you wanted to go stayed but you still didn't get it and the same ole contined forth. As we entered the 21st century, it got even worse so that many UPS locations began to engage in schemes to get people. Provide transportation to and from work. Raffles for Big Screen TV's and stereo systems to get people to come to work. Large amounts of money spent on cookouts and other schemes to get people to work safe, something any normal human being would really naturally do on their own without any extra encouragement. This is what you do when you have a job!
What has happened now is you are drawing from the bottom of the labor pool and the pool is beginning to run dry. We need someone to unload a package car on our local sort and HR hands use a 300 lb person who can barely carry themselves and when the packages approach the 30 to 40 lb range they leave them on the car and then go to the PT sup claiming they need help unloading them. When it's obvious they can't make it we face 2 powerful conflicts that we're dead meat either way. We cut em' loose and the HR hotshot has us in your office claiming we're nothing but a head hunter or we keep them just because we need a body and they can't make the production we need and we're back in your office again on that issue. You tell us to work with and make them sucessful and we do but they are so inept that they consume our day and I'm back in your office again because the many other elements of my job are not being met. We take an employee out twice for workplace violence and on the 2nd attempt we have some UPS folks on the panel vote with the union to bring them back. Even my hourly people here wanted this cat gone but NO! Even the local union guy has his hands tied but he knows.
Why should I keep my job you ask? Because you've got no one else with any amount of ability or knowledge to do this job because your best drivers who do have these skills see the stupidity and won't touch this job with a 100 foot pole. I wish now I too had listened to their warnings but I guess mark me among the stupid. But now here's the irony. You now face the same situation to some degree as I face with the 300 plus lb unloader. You can fire me but with the management people quitting left and right, getting a replacement might not be to swift. And then what do you get? Odds are you get one of the $8 an hour ladder climbers who only took the supervisor job because they didn't want to work and saw that path as an out. Now they either fit some profile that they need to get to a certain destination in order for the corp. braintrust to be able to check a box of fulfillment or someone has a piece of trash that they can't just out and out fire as they should be so they do a little wheeling and dealing and some political dealmaking and presto-change O, you're now the proud owner of their former trash and then you get told to "make them successful!" Ain't life a Bitch!
As a result of the above PT employee starting policy I'm stuck with many of the worthless trash I've been given to deliever my packages and sort them out. I thank my lucky stars every day for the many good people who came up through the real ranks of UPS and have the spirit and ethics to do and get the job done but they are faster and faster becoming a dying breed. You've lost focus that to get the best you have to start off with the best and that ain't happening there pal! Those good drivers and employees keep us going and I'm sad to say I have to screw them daily with 16 hours of work and when they stay out only 12 hours and come back with no send agains you still want me to scream at them while the slackers only get 6 hours of work and stay out 12 and still come back with half a truck of send agains. Instead of screaming at the good one's why can't I scream at the slackers that are really the source of the problem? Let me ride their butts the either whip them into shape or begin the pen to paper process and send them somewhere else.
Why should I keep my job? No sir, the real question is why in the hell am I even thinking about staying at this insane asylum?
Signed,
I'm Just
ing Stupid I Guess!BTW D'Boy, excellent post with post #9 above.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
MAc, feel better now?
LOL, glad you got that off your chest. Shame that this whole thing will be viewed up high as a joke. Problem is that the reality of it all is overwhelming.
And they thought drivers were stupid and only knew about what problems we face as drivers.
Lead on!
d
LOL, glad you got that off your chest. Shame that this whole thing will be viewed up high as a joke. Problem is that the reality of it all is overwhelming.
And they thought drivers were stupid and only knew about what problems we face as drivers.
Lead on!
d
T
Thebrowntruth
Guest
I wish now I too had listened to their warnings but I guess mark me among the stupid.
wkmac,
AMEN!!!!! You couldnt be more correct! I only have one question for you, i have the same STUPID "MARK" on me...how the hell do we wash it off?
Keep up the fight!
wkmac,
AMEN!!!!! You couldnt be more correct! I only have one question for you, i have the same STUPID "MARK" on me...how the hell do we wash it off?
Keep up the fight!
tieguy
Banned
I keep hoping they will do that to me. Disconnect the phones, turn off the cell phone wait for the registered letter to arrive. Should be good for at least a week off.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
I would hope that someone cleans the division managers clock on something like this. This is nothing more than terrorism in the workplace. Period.
If he has issues with performance of his people, then deal with it. How childish of the overpaid and under worked idiot that we have running the shows.
And they wonder why they run off tallent. With this type of second grade bullying........
How childish.
d
tieguy
Banned
This would actually be a great thing to document just in case you ever need it. It indicates that the divison manager thinks everyone he has working for him is screwed up. In such a case you should realistically look at the division manager as the problem since its unrealistic to think every friend/t sup is underperforming. Even if they were you would still look at the group with the 80/20 concept and work with the 20 percent doing the poorest job.
Strangely enough this mindset seems to have roots. We have a preload operation struggling to meet the unrealistic goals of PAS. Corporate demanded we swap out every sup on the operation. We did. they all move to other assignments and sups were brought in who were "preload" experts. Same result with different faces. In two more years corporate will realize that this preload is basically doing all it can and turn their attention elsewhere. In the meantime the current crop of people working this operation have to go through the performance grind.
Strangely enough this mindset seems to have roots. We have a preload operation struggling to meet the unrealistic goals of PAS. Corporate demanded we swap out every sup on the operation. We did. they all move to other assignments and sups were brought in who were "preload" experts. Same result with different faces. In two more years corporate will realize that this preload is basically doing all it can and turn their attention elsewhere. In the meantime the current crop of people working this operation have to go through the performance grind.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Tie
That type of management is 60's. It shows a total lack of intellect on the part of the division manager. I do believe the gent needs to be taken down a few notches, made to take the people school for 2 years just for starters.
You treat your people like, and then wonder why you get as far as production. What a nutcase. This type of tyrant does not need to be anywhere at UPS.
d
That type of management is 60's. It shows a total lack of intellect on the part of the division manager. I do believe the gent needs to be taken down a few notches, made to take the people school for 2 years just for starters.
You treat your people like
, and then wonder why you get as far as production. What a nutcase. This type of tyrant does not need to be anywhere at UPS.d
old levi's
blank space
Hey wkmac, Next time don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Case in point. One of our delivery sups is on vacation this week. The covering sup left a route sitting in the building, and the drivers that were allowed to go home did not answer the phone. So the delivery sup has the great honor to come in on his vacation time and take this route out and get it delivered.
Bet dollars to donuts he wont even get a thanks. Of course the most senior driver just got an additional 9 hours pay.
Just another example of why they are leaving in droves.
d
Bet dollars to donuts he wont even get a thanks. Of course the most senior driver just got an additional 9 hours pay.
Just another example of why they are leaving in droves.
d
Brown Clown
New Member
I've seen over a hundred quit here in southeast Virginia alone. All with over 15 yrs experience, and all levels of management(acct reps, loss prevention, etc.)
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Oh yes he will! From that senior driver who just got the easy 9 hours of pay. That supervisor needs to learn that there is a time to answer and not answer that telephone but I admire and respect his dedication and you are right. He will get nothing in return for the effort.
Hey Dino, I was being very reserved thank you very much!
I also noticed not one person challenged me on my comments here so what does that say and I'm not even in management to begin with? IMO, we've really lost our way as a company and I have concerns about our future. We're so focused on making money just to drive a stock price whereas in the past we understood that if you took care of the customer and provided the service promised that the profits and business growth would be right there all the time. Where did we get to without advertising at all and with only our reputation of top quality service via word of mouth from customer to customer? Maybe a different world today but those elements are the central core of any successful business. Jim Casey's lessons in business are still as applicable today as when he first uttered those words! Same is true of his lessons on people.
JMHO.
M
mrdc
Guest
ups has a history of fireing mgrs and sups 50 to 55 yrs old they try to get them befor they retire I know of two fired last month in this area
dave_socal
PACKAGE/FEEDER
Dear Idiot, Non Thinking DM,
First off, did you ever think the problem might be you? I don't call the shots anymore bigboy, I'm just a glorified middle man that you pass edicts to from Corp. and then I pass them down to the lower level troops. I am not allowed to manage my area of responsibility as the needs arise or warrant. I have no say-so in any of these matters and my job these days is mainly a data gatherer for you so you and the other DM's can spend countless hours on useless conference calls with the Dist. Manager, Region Manager or occassionally some wanna-be high flyer in the Corp. office. The ironic part if had any of you ever been a driver for the slightest serious amount of time (90 day wonders don't count as a real driver) you wouldn't need me to gather all this needless data because you could look as the basic reports and figure out very quickly what is really happening. You have Corp. telling you what to do because they know you were never a driver to begin with and have no clue how the real world operates. The bad part is the same folks from Corp. have a little if even less experience than you do at our real world so the only thing they know to do is to get you to get me to feed them what they percieve is useful data so they can then go to the management committee and BULLSCHITT them into thinking they really are knowledgable and smart. To make matters worse, the committtee then turns around and grants them further powers it invoke their BULLSCHITT back into the real world down where it counts and the cycle of misery continues. The sad part is none of us has the guts to tell them they are wrong and the hard data to prove it because that is a career killer at the new UPS so we go along hoping one day to rise above it all and be in position to make a difference but deep down we know that's a bullschitt pipedream that we use just to make ourselves fell better at the stupid misery we've placed ourselves in. Our only goal now is to get those years in so we can get the hell out and away from this circus.
For 20 plus years you've prided yourself on the "we hire from within" policy but you coupled that with an economic policy of starting all PT employees (from which you draft your future FT employee, PT supervisors and your FT supervisors) at the nice wage price of $8 per hour. Now in 1982' that was still pretty damn good but at some point you begin to cross a threshhold where the $8 an hour is not pulling in the top foodchain employee as we once did. In the mid-90's with the management buyout you were sent a big clue with many folks that you wanted to stay left and the ones you wanted to go stayed but you still didn't get it and the same ole contined forth. As we entered the 21st century, it got even worse so that many UPS locations began to engage in schemes to get people. Provide transportation to and from work. Raffles for Big Screen TV's and stereo systems to get people to come to work. Large amounts of money spent on cookouts and other schemes to get people to work safe, something any normal human being would really naturally do on their own without any extra encouragement. This is what you do when you have a job!
What has happened now is you are drawing from the bottom of the labor pool and the pool is beginning to run dry. We need someone to unload a package car on our local sort and HR hands use a 300 lb person who can barely carry themselves and when the packages approach the 30 to 40 lb range they leave them on the car and then go to the PT sup claiming they need help unloading them. When it's obvious they can't make it we face 2 powerful conflicts that we're dead meat either way. We cut em' loose and the HR hotshot has us in your office claiming we're nothing but a head hunter or we keep them just because we need a body and they can't make the production we need and we're back in your office again on that issue. You tell us to work with and make them sucessful and we do but they are so inept that they consume our day and I'm back in your office again because the many other elements of my job are not being met. We take an employee out twice for workplace violence and on the 2nd attempt we have some UPS folks on the panel vote with the union to bring them back. Even my hourly people here wanted this cat gone but NO! Even the local union guy has his hands tied but he knows.
Why should I keep my job you ask? Because you've got no one else with any amount of ability or knowledge to do this job because your best drivers who do have these skills see the stupidity and won't touch this job with a 100 foot pole. I wish now I too had listened to their warnings but I guess mark me among the stupid. But now here's the irony. You now face the same situation to some degree as I face with the 300 plus lb unloader. You can fire me but with the management people quitting left and right, getting a replacement might not be to swift. And then what do you get? Odds are you get one of the $8 an hour ladder climbers who only took the supervisor job because they didn't want to work and saw that path as an out. Now they either fit some profile that they need to get to a certain destination in order for the corp. braintrust to be able to check a box of fulfillment or someone has a piece of trash that they can't just out and out fire as they should be so they do a little wheeling and dealing and some political dealmaking and presto-change O, you're now the proud owner of their former trash and then you get told to "make them successful!" Ain't life a Bitch!
As a result of the above PT employee starting policy I'm stuck with many of the worthless trash I've been given to deliever my packages and sort them out. I thank my lucky stars every day for the many good people who came up through the real ranks of UPS and have the spirit and ethics to do and get the job done but they are faster and faster becoming a dying breed. You've lost focus that to get the best you have to start off with the best and that ain't happening there pal! Those good drivers and employees keep us going and I'm sad to say I have to screw them daily with 16 hours of work and when they stay out only 12 hours and come back with no send agains you still want me to scream at them while the slackers only get 6 hours of work and stay out 12 and still come back with half a truck of send agains. Instead of screaming at the good one's why can't I scream at the slackers that are really the source of the problem? Let me ride their butts the either whip them into shape or begin the pen to paper process and send them somewhere else.
Why should I keep my job? No sir, the real question is why in the hell am I even thinking about staying at this insane asylum?
Signed,
I'm Just
BTW D'Boy, excellent post with post #9 above.
First post I ever printed. Kudos!
I've been a part of UPS for over 43 years as a Driver, a Supervisor, a Manager in Operations and I.E., and finally a Retiree. Believe it or not, the same complaints, and bitches I read on this web site today are exactly the same ones employees expressed in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
While I will admit there are some people in management who should not be there, you will also have to admit that there are some hourly employees who should not be working for UPS.
In another thread about a customer calling the 1-800 number, Dannyboy mentioned the kids game where the people are lined up and something is whispered to the first in line and that person whispers it to the next person and so on, till the last person in line hears something entirely different than what was whispered to the first person. For me, that is what happens at UPS. As an example, Time Study at UPS is totally misrepresented and misunderstood because someone tells someone something and then that person puts his/her interpatation on what was said and tells the next person.. This communication continues unchecked till what was originally stated is totally distorted. People have a natural bias against any form of work measurement and will not, can not, believe they are not the best at that job, therefor the measurement is wrong, not them.
Another area of complaint is the long work day. Drivers have been complaining about this also from the 60s, nothing new there.
Dumb decisions made by management. Yep, another oldie.
Promoted unqualified person into supervision. Nothing new.
I.E. bunch of pencil pushing geeks. Heard it before.
Corporate doesn't understand what we go through. Same ol
same ol.
Seen managers come and go, I'm still here. Please, another phrase from the 60s.
I have to be honest though, the topic of pension I've only been hearing that since the late 80s. I guess that's natural since drivers didn't begin to think about retiring before then. I worked in what is refered to as the 8 City Area. The 8 Union Locals, in Central Pa, were all covered by the same agreement and had the 8 City Pension Plan, which was a multi employer plan. Drivers who retired in that area in the early 90s with 30 years of service were lucky if they received $900 a month, and had to pay app. $150 a month for medical coverage.
The years may change, the seasons may change, but people never change.
While I will admit there are some people in management who should not be there, you will also have to admit that there are some hourly employees who should not be working for UPS.
In another thread about a customer calling the 1-800 number, Dannyboy mentioned the kids game where the people are lined up and something is whispered to the first in line and that person whispers it to the next person and so on, till the last person in line hears something entirely different than what was whispered to the first person. For me, that is what happens at UPS. As an example, Time Study at UPS is totally misrepresented and misunderstood because someone tells someone something and then that person puts his/her interpatation on what was said and tells the next person.. This communication continues unchecked till what was originally stated is totally distorted. People have a natural bias against any form of work measurement and will not, can not, believe they are not the best at that job, therefor the measurement is wrong, not them.
Another area of complaint is the long work day. Drivers have been complaining about this also from the 60s, nothing new there.
Dumb decisions made by management. Yep, another oldie.
Promoted unqualified person into supervision. Nothing new.
I.E. bunch of pencil pushing geeks. Heard it before.
Corporate doesn't understand what we go through. Same ol
same ol.
Seen managers come and go, I'm still here. Please, another phrase from the 60s.
I have to be honest though, the topic of pension I've only been hearing that since the late 80s. I guess that's natural since drivers didn't begin to think about retiring before then. I worked in what is refered to as the 8 City Area. The 8 Union Locals, in Central Pa, were all covered by the same agreement and had the 8 City Pension Plan, which was a multi employer plan. Drivers who retired in that area in the early 90s with 30 years of service were lucky if they received $900 a month, and had to pay app. $150 a month for medical coverage.
The years may change, the seasons may change, but people never change.
Wkmac,
Once again you humorously highlight some serious concerns that we have about our company. I don't post often but enjoy your insight. (your posts are the best!)
The starting wage rate for parttime employees is a concern for the reason you identified- these people are the drivers and management people of tomorrow, and we want the best quality people we can hire. With the low pay rate, each year it makes the selection process tougher. The solution seems obvious: just raise the pay to make it attractive to new employees.
How high a starting wage rate should we have? Pick a number- should it be $10, or $11 or $12 an hour. I'm not sure but for example purposes, let's use $11.
If we hire 25,000 parttime employees a year at an additional $2.50 an hour with an average workweek of 20 hours it would add an additional $1,250,000 a week (or $65 million a year) to our cost structure.
Now here's the problem. We all know UPS runs on a budget. In the last contract, wage and benefit increases for employees were about $1 billion (over the life of the contract). This allowed all our people to get a fair contract that rewards them for their hard work. However, if we add $65 million additional wages, where does it come from? Do drivers, or existing part time employees or mechanics or article 22.3 full time people get less increase so that new hires can have more?
The issue is that new parttimers don't vote on contracts- drivers and other existing employees do. Therefore no one can agree to give new parttimers more by giving other employees less - it won't pass and no teamster negotiator is going to agree to it. Therefore each contract for the last 20 years concludes and the problem of low starting wages is not addressed.
This thread regarding supervisors quitting identifies some areas where our company has addressed higher costs by reducing mangagement compensation. The company can't continue to cut costs in that area without a further loss of qualified managers and supervisors.
My question is: how would you address this issue of a higher starting wage rate in the upcoming contract, especially with all the pension concerns that will certainly dominate the negotiations ?
Once again you humorously highlight some serious concerns that we have about our company. I don't post often but enjoy your insight. (your posts are the best!)
The starting wage rate for parttime employees is a concern for the reason you identified- these people are the drivers and management people of tomorrow, and we want the best quality people we can hire. With the low pay rate, each year it makes the selection process tougher. The solution seems obvious: just raise the pay to make it attractive to new employees.
How high a starting wage rate should we have? Pick a number- should it be $10, or $11 or $12 an hour. I'm not sure but for example purposes, let's use $11.
If we hire 25,000 parttime employees a year at an additional $2.50 an hour with an average workweek of 20 hours it would add an additional $1,250,000 a week (or $65 million a year) to our cost structure.
Now here's the problem. We all know UPS runs on a budget. In the last contract, wage and benefit increases for employees were about $1 billion (over the life of the contract). This allowed all our people to get a fair contract that rewards them for their hard work. However, if we add $65 million additional wages, where does it come from? Do drivers, or existing part time employees or mechanics or article 22.3 full time people get less increase so that new hires can have more?
The issue is that new parttimers don't vote on contracts- drivers and other existing employees do. Therefore no one can agree to give new parttimers more by giving other employees less - it won't pass and no teamster negotiator is going to agree to it. Therefore each contract for the last 20 years concludes and the problem of low starting wages is not addressed.
This thread regarding supervisors quitting identifies some areas where our company has addressed higher costs by reducing mangagement compensation. The company can't continue to cut costs in that area without a further loss of qualified managers and supervisors.
My question is: how would you address this issue of a higher starting wage rate in the upcoming contract, especially with all the pension concerns that will certainly dominate the negotiations ?
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
"new parttimers don't vote on contracts-......."
You're right, not when the contract comes up for negotiations every 10 years. Most of the PT'ers have gone on to bigger and better things while the career employee continues to trudge along hoping his/her mind and body will make it to retirement.
When contract time does come you will see the company hosting cookouts, soda pop, hot dogs and burgers in hopes of enticing the PT'ers to vote yes.
The company knows there are many more PT'ers than FT'ers and will offer the PT'ers a treat like a $1000 signing bonus (extra beer money for the frat parties) knowing full well there is language in the proposal designed to undermine the career employee (such as sub contracting feeder work). Do you think PT'ers care about the language that applies to FT employees?
Maybe you can explain how I, as a PT'er in the late 70's, was making 12-15 dollars an hour (can't remember exact figure) and the company had more managers per employee than now.
Mark my words........the company will romance the PT'ers knowing they can/will carry the vote.
You're right, not when the contract comes up for negotiations every 10 years. Most of the PT'ers have gone on to bigger and better things while the career employee continues to trudge along hoping his/her mind and body will make it to retirement.
When contract time does come you will see the company hosting cookouts, soda pop, hot dogs and burgers in hopes of enticing the PT'ers to vote yes.
The company knows there are many more PT'ers than FT'ers and will offer the PT'ers a treat like a $1000 signing bonus (extra beer money for the frat parties) knowing full well there is language in the proposal designed to undermine the career employee (such as sub contracting feeder work). Do you think PT'ers care about the language that applies to FT employees?
Maybe you can explain how I, as a PT'er in the late 70's, was making 12-15 dollars an hour (can't remember exact figure) and the company had more managers per employee than now.
Mark my words........the company will romance the PT'ers knowing they can/will carry the vote.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I think the starting PT wage should be based on a kind of menu system when a new employee comes to work. This idea has been mentioned by several but give a PTer a choice between wages or beenies. No out of pocket money for UPS, just rearranging the same furniture in the same room for a different look. In fact, if the higher wage works, then a windfall will be realized as potentially the turnover would reduce thus that $2k to $3k orientation cost per new hire would be saved based on the % that turnover would drop. This is not a given and I'm sure the bean counters in Corp. would be quick to argue my point but based on what I see out in the trenches and the esculating problem over the last several years, those trends that they so love to follow also show that this cost line is also rising over time. At some point you cross the threshhold and start to go into the hole with the status quo. Considering the current Congress is toying a min. wage increase to $7.25 per hour and it's an election year when such showmanship takes place for votes, we may see the problem further worsen and the climax at hand. No pun or should I say "No Fun" intended!
However, even the idea above will cost the bottomline because this company knows that most PTers that are students are also in one of 2 likely scenarios. Either they never go to the doctor thus never using the benefit or they are still on mom and dad's account and handle it that way. UPS gains a windfall from this scenario and another reason the union would love to have that bidness because it's a cash cow.
Sit down and think about some kid who comes to UPS and spends a year or so and makes it to say $10 an hour and works a 3.75 shift 5 days a week. You gross $37.50 per day but from that you subtract the various taxes they have to pay and then if there is no good public transportation around and in majority of UPS sites this is likely the case, then you've got the cost of wheels with gas nearly $3 per gallon at best plus wear and tear on the car. Also the cost of proper footwear, work clothes, etc. and then how far down has that $37.50 been reduced? Now you work a job with basically no heat in winter, no AC in summer, you unload/load in an environment that's not the greatest in the world, you have to remember a truckload of questions and answers on such items as safety that at the end of the day you can know them all and still get hurt if you lack common sense or caring attitude and those questions guarantee nothing. I've seen people time after time miss those questions but have sense and caring and never get hurt and others ace those questions and are still on the repeaters list. How much does all that safety stuff cost? We've created a whole Safety function within the company structure along with gimmicks and games to boot so what does that cost? How many extra people do we keep on staff just to cover absenteeism because we can't hold people accountable to come to work because what does it really cost to lose maybe $25 net money from not going to work. You can do landscape work as a laborer on Saturday and make more money in one day of work than you can all week PT at UPS. Don't believe me, ask some of these clowns who lay out all the time whatelse they do in life.
At one time we did pay PTers a couple of bucks less than FTers and yeah maybe that was a little much but I can tell you this, the job then was something of extreme value and you hardly ever saw turnover unless someone just got real stupid. On top of that you had a better pick from the labor pool and these folks had at least the common sense not to stick their hand inside a running conveyor even if it didn't have a guard. I'm waiting for the day now where instead of the funky keys to open the guards we'll have to call a corp. helpdesk for them to activate an atomic lock so the guard can be opened.
There's an old saying that IMO is so true. "You get what you pay for!" Just look around at the folks coming in and really think and look around real good and then ask yourself all this when you consider the future as you look at it. With all due respect to UPS_Vette and his years service, when has it been that he/she spent any serious length of time working a sort operation or any other function within the trenches of UPS to see it up close and personal? He/she is right that many of the same ole complaints have floated for years but the brutal fact is, it has gotten worse and that's a fact!
What can we afford not to do! As for the FT pay, I said at the last contract I felt it was to much but we got what we got. I thought we should have given more to the PT wage with a view of the future and when the benefits of that came in, say this upcoming contract, then you argue to recoup if you feel the need because the future IMO would be more secure and stable and I've heard more FTers now expressing that same view now 4 years down the road. This coming contract is gonna really be tough for both sides because there are lots of issues out there. I personally feel FT wages is not one on them but that's me. However, I don't see the PT wage changing either so we'll see how this thing progresses. I just hope you are able to call my claims "alarmist and overblown" in the years ahead. This one time it's not to my benefit to be right on!
However, even the idea above will cost the bottomline because this company knows that most PTers that are students are also in one of 2 likely scenarios. Either they never go to the doctor thus never using the benefit or they are still on mom and dad's account and handle it that way. UPS gains a windfall from this scenario and another reason the union would love to have that bidness because it's a cash cow.
Sit down and think about some kid who comes to UPS and spends a year or so and makes it to say $10 an hour and works a 3.75 shift 5 days a week. You gross $37.50 per day but from that you subtract the various taxes they have to pay and then if there is no good public transportation around and in majority of UPS sites this is likely the case, then you've got the cost of wheels with gas nearly $3 per gallon at best plus wear and tear on the car. Also the cost of proper footwear, work clothes, etc. and then how far down has that $37.50 been reduced? Now you work a job with basically no heat in winter, no AC in summer, you unload/load in an environment that's not the greatest in the world, you have to remember a truckload of questions and answers on such items as safety that at the end of the day you can know them all and still get hurt if you lack common sense or caring attitude and those questions guarantee nothing. I've seen people time after time miss those questions but have sense and caring and never get hurt and others ace those questions and are still on the repeaters list. How much does all that safety stuff cost? We've created a whole Safety function within the company structure along with gimmicks and games to boot so what does that cost? How many extra people do we keep on staff just to cover absenteeism because we can't hold people accountable to come to work because what does it really cost to lose maybe $25 net money from not going to work. You can do landscape work as a laborer on Saturday and make more money in one day of work than you can all week PT at UPS. Don't believe me, ask some of these clowns who lay out all the time whatelse they do in life.
At one time we did pay PTers a couple of bucks less than FTers and yeah maybe that was a little much but I can tell you this, the job then was something of extreme value and you hardly ever saw turnover unless someone just got real stupid. On top of that you had a better pick from the labor pool and these folks had at least the common sense not to stick their hand inside a running conveyor even if it didn't have a guard. I'm waiting for the day now where instead of the funky keys to open the guards we'll have to call a corp. helpdesk for them to activate an atomic lock so the guard can be opened.
There's an old saying that IMO is so true. "You get what you pay for!" Just look around at the folks coming in and really think and look around real good and then ask yourself all this when you consider the future as you look at it. With all due respect to UPS_Vette and his years service, when has it been that he/she spent any serious length of time working a sort operation or any other function within the trenches of UPS to see it up close and personal? He/she is right that many of the same ole complaints have floated for years but the brutal fact is, it has gotten worse and that's a fact!
What can we afford not to do! As for the FT pay, I said at the last contract I felt it was to much but we got what we got. I thought we should have given more to the PT wage with a view of the future and when the benefits of that came in, say this upcoming contract, then you argue to recoup if you feel the need because the future IMO would be more secure and stable and I've heard more FTers now expressing that same view now 4 years down the road. This coming contract is gonna really be tough for both sides because there are lots of issues out there. I personally feel FT wages is not one on them but that's me. However, I don't see the PT wage changing either so we'll see how this thing progresses. I just hope you are able to call my claims "alarmist and overblown" in the years ahead. This one time it's not to my benefit to be right on!
dutchups
Well-Known Member
As a regular visitor/reader of this site I often am suprised by the tales.
I dont reply because a lot of them are touched by (US) rules and regulations I dont know anything about.
But as to sups/managers leaving the company or driver trainers laying down their job that`s something that happens here also.
And for (some of) the same reasons as Dannyboy stated in his reply.
I dont reply because a lot of them are touched by (US) rules and regulations I dont know anything about.
But as to sups/managers leaving the company or driver trainers laying down their job that`s something that happens here also.
And for (some of) the same reasons as Dannyboy stated in his reply.
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