Is there a push to save fuel?

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I'm not saying that another driver isn't needed. What I'm saying is that the driver should drop off the air and ground at the same time. Note the two different scenarios below:

Scenario 1 - current self-imposed goofy rules:
1) air driver delivers 5 stops of air.
2) another driver delivers 5 stops of ground to the same exact addresses the same day.
3) total of 10 stops for 5 customers.

Scenario 2 - goofy self imposed rule eliminated:
1) driver (note no air limitation) delivers 5 stops.
2) total of 5 stops for 5 customers.

Come on now Serious. You are grasping at straws now. There are still two drivers in the same area. There is no way to predict which air stops will be in excess, if any, on a given day. The air drivers are and always will be a stop gap solution to an unpredictable situation that surfaces at the last minute.

P.S. You still have yet to explain how this is exacerbating the PAS/EDD problems as you eluded in your original post.
 
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hseofpayne

Guest
I'm not saying that another driver isn't needed. What I'm saying is that the driver should drop off the air and ground at the same time. Note the two different scenarios below:

Scenario 1 - current self-imposed goofy rules:
1) air driver delivers 5 stops of air.
2) another driver delivers 5 stops of ground to the same exact addresses the same day.
3) total of 10 stops for 5 customers.

Scenario 2 - goofy self imposed rule eliminated:
1) driver (note no air limitation) delivers 5 stops.
2) total of 5 stops for 5 customers.

Scenario 3 - goofy full time driver job eliminated
1) air driver(at much lower hourly rate) takes all ground and air packages(NDA, 2DA, 3DS)
2) full time driver laid off as there are not enough stops to justify full day rte
3) air driver waits 5 more years for a full time job.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Scenario 3 - goofy full time driver job eliminated
1) air driver(at much lower hourly rate) takes all ground and air packages(NDA, 2DA, 3DS)
2) full time driver laid off as there are not enough stops to justify full day rte
3) air driver waits 5 more years for a full time job.

I Feel Your "PAYNE"
 

1989

Well-Known Member
In this case I don't believe weight has anything to do with it.I am not sure what cage cars are but it sounds like this would be an airport facility. Please correct me if I am wrong. I also believe that if this is the case these types of vehicles are only used on private property and not taken out on the streets. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

Point- anyone can drive anything within the confines of private property. The issue is when they are driven on public streets. Then, by DOT requirements, that vehicle would require a minimum of a Class B CDL. Any driver of a vehicle that has air brakes system and used for business purposes must have a CDL to operate.

I know someone will bring this up eventually so, these big motor homes that have air brake system do not apply because they are privately owned and are not used within the realm of a business. This has been a bone of contention within the trucking industry for years because operators of these motor homes are not required to comply with DOT regulations.

And again I will bring this up because I know someone will ask, yes I believe I have some knowledge in this area as I have had a Class A CDL for 16 years. I know what I am talking about.


I think the weight has to be under 26000 or 32000 lbs. We use them for pick ups and deliveries...One goes to a mall and delivers about 400-500 pcs (Pottery Barn, William Sonoma, etc) Then another driver swaps with a 1200 and uses it to do another 6 pick ups. (200 boxes of coffee, 120 boxes of shoes, plus another 1000-3000 pcs. at a building loading dock.)
 
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Seriously

Guest
Come on now Serious. You are grasping at straws now. There are still two drivers in the same area. There is no way to predict which air stops will be in excess, if any, on a given day.
The number of air stops (along with address info) is available to dispatchers before the preload starts. There are a couple problems causing the info to not be used though. First, the programs they use to dispatch are cumbersome and don't give them good visibility on air stops. Many dispatchers throw their hands up and decide not to address air issues until just before driver start time. The second problem is that most centers under-staff their dispatch teams so they don't have enough time to use the information they do have.
The air drivers are and always will be a stop gap solution to an unpredictable situation that surfaces at the last minute.
Agree and disagree. I agree that some unpredictable events will be a daily part of life (call-ins, unforecasted volume, injuries, accidents, etc.). I disagree in that while responding to an unplanned event I should have to add cost to an already bad situation by having to get one driver to deliver air and another to deliver ground to the same place.

P.S. You still have yet to explain how this is exacerbating the PAS/EDD problems as you eluded in your original post.
It's a computer programming issue. The system that the dispatchers use to dispatch does a terrible job counting stops and putting them in the correct order when they start dispatching the air to one driver and the ground to another driver. Then, when they start moving the work back and forth between drivers it really does some goofy things. I read a lot on here about drivers complaining about stops being all over the car or in the wrong order. Dispatching service levels separately is one of the things that causes this problem.
 
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Seriously

Guest
Scenario 3 - goofy full time driver job eliminated
1) air driver(at much lower hourly rate) takes all ground and air packages(NDA, 2DA, 3DS)
2) full time driver laid off as there are not enough stops to justify full day rte
3) air driver waits 5 more years for a full time job.

I'm trying to avoid the following scenario:
1) Gas stays at $4+ per gallon, maybe goes higher.
2) UPS can't significantly reduce fuel expense and has to significantly raise rates.
3) Volumes drops, full-timers laid off (non-management and management).
4) Laid off drivers wait years to get their jobs back. Management won't get theirs back.
5) Part-timers wait 5 more years for a full-time job.

Something's going to have to change at the individual level in order to save fuel. Maybe it's time to stop breaking trace to get deliveries early to low volume accounts. The profitability of a given customer changes when you go from $2 to $4 or $5 gas.
 
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hseofpayne

Guest
I'm trying to avoid the following scenario:
1) Gas stays at $4+ per gallon, maybe goes higher.
2) UPS can't significantly reduce fuel expense and has to significantly raise rates.
3) Volumes drops, full-timers laid off (non-management and management).
4) Laid off drivers wait years to get their jobs back. Management won't get theirs back.
5) Part-timers wait 5 more years for a full-time job.

Something's going to have to change at the individual level in order to save fuel. Maybe it's time to stop breaking trace to get deliveries early to low volume accounts. The profitability of a given customer changes when you go from $2 to $4 or $5 gas.

The problem with your whole scenariois that the hourlies are making all the concessions. If this rule were changed, drivers would have to trust management not to take advantage of the new status of air drivers. Do you really think it would be long before the ground packages for stops near the air stops would be added to the air driver. Tell me some of the concessions management will be making to better weather this economic downturn. The teamsters bargained in good faith for our rights as employees and it would be a slippery slope indeed if we start giving those rights away.
 
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Seriously

Guest
The problem with your whole scenariois that the hourlies are making all the concessions. If this rule were changed, drivers would have to trust management not to take advantage of the new status of air drivers. Do you really think it would be long before the ground packages for stops near the air stops would be added to the air driver. Tell me some of the concessions management will be making to better weather this economic downturn. The teamsters bargained in good faith for our rights as employees and it would be a slippery slope indeed if we start giving those rights away.

You're right. I am an idiot. I was trying to play devil's advocate and failed miserably. I should probably register here to not look like a clown.
 
Our management has read us all the saving gas pcms, but these ideas are not put in practice in the dispatches. One route I know has grown by 20 miles a day. Nothing has changed in the area.All of the buisiness is at the northernmost point of a large suburb, while the residentials are at the southern tip of the city, 4 miles away. The worst part is, you have to drive past 3 other routes to get to your residentials, and then come back for pick ups. High ideals always lose when faced with running good numbers.
 
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hseofpayne

Guest
You're right. I am an idiot. I was trying to play devil's advocate and failed miserably. I should probably register here to not look like a clown.

No, dont register, especially after being on record as saying I was right about anything! Wait a few days so no one knows you agreed with me, could be hazardous to your "health". If you were being sarcastic, well then, good one!
 

upsdude

Well-Known Member
How about having the air drivers actually deliver NDA?

Air routes are being eliminated which places the NDA back on the FT driver. Seems to me the best situation is for the FT driver to run all the air they can in trace. Example, I’ll drive my 1000 an extra 10 miles a day running NDA. Why not have the air driver (driving a 25 MPG mini van) run the NDA we (FT drivers) can’t run in trace. I’ll save you fuel, and could probably run some additional ground resi’s. Doing that across the board would make for a much more profitable “cut routes” situation. Besides, that air driver makes way less than I do and the contract allows it. I also realize the PDS sup would have to actually “think”.

Oops, sorry I forgot. My manager isn’t allowed to make decisions. I guess it’s the thought that counts.
 
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Seriously

Guest
No, dont register, especially after being on record as saying I was right about anything! Wait a few days so no one knows you agreed with me, could be hazardous to your "health". If you were being sarcastic, well then, good one!

I am not being sarcastic. I clearly know very little about which I speak. That is why I am not registered. It is easy for me to come on here and "stir things up" by not even creating an account.

If I were you people, I would ignore what anyone that refuses to register has to say. After all, allowing guests to post is not something done on most forums. The forum mods here are being very nice, and trusting by letting me do so.

Like I said though, I don't really know what is going on and that is why I am not smart enough to create an account.
 
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hseofpayne

Guest
I am not being sarcastic. I clearly know very little about which I speak. That is why I am not registered. It is easy for me to come on here and "stir things up" by not even creating an account.

If I were you people, I would ignore what anyone that refuses to register has to say. After all, allowing guests to post is not something done on most forums. The forum mods here are being very nice, and trusting by letting me do so.

Like I said though, I don't really know what is going on and that is why I am not smart enough to create an account.

Those sound like the top 2 prerequisites for creating an account on here! Come on in, seriously, very few on here know much about what they speak of, you weren't doing too bad!
 

outamyway

Well-Known Member
How about having the air drivers actually deliver NDA?

Air routes are being eliminated which places the NDA back on the FT driver. Seems to me the best situation is for the FT driver to run all the air they can in trace. Example, I’ll drive my 1000 an extra 10 miles a day running NDA. Why not have the air driver (driving a 25 MPG mini van) run the NDA we (FT drivers) can’t run in trace. I’ll save you fuel, and could probably run some additional ground resi’s. Doing that across the board would make for a much more profitable “cut routes” situation. Besides, that air driver makes way less than I do and the contract allows it. I also realize the PDS sup would have to actually “think”.

Oops, sorry I forgot. My manager isn’t allowed to make decisions. I guess it’s the thought that counts.

Some centers are different than others.

At our building most of our air drivers have NDA routes. Most of them cover 1-3 FT driver areas that have too much next day air for one full timer to do. I've been doing the same area for almost a year. Three of the other air routes for our center have been consistent since I started driving NDA's(I have no idea about the other centers in our building)

A couple air routes have been added on since a couple of the full time routes have been cut.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Take a look at UPSer's.com under Corporate headlines. There will be an article in this Sunday's (July 6) Parade magazine regarding UPS and fuel strategy.


Was it just me or was anyone else disappointed by this? It was 2 small paragraphs off to the side of another article and consisted of 2 quotes. Hardly worth the mention.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
How about having the air drivers actually deliver NDA?

Air routes are being eliminated which places the NDA back on the FT driver. Seems to me the best situation is for the FT driver to run all the air they can in trace. Example, I’ll drive my 1000 an extra 10 miles a day running NDA. Why not have the air driver (driving a 25 MPG mini van) run the NDA we (FT drivers) can’t run in trace. I’ll save you fuel, and could probably run some additional ground resi’s. Doing that across the board would make for a much more profitable “cut routes” situation. Besides, that air driver makes way less than I do and the contract allows it. I also realize the PDS sup would have to actually “think”.

Oops, sorry I forgot. My manager isn’t allowed to make decisions. I guess it’s the thought that counts.

Oops, air drivers aren't allowed to deliver ground packages, residential or commercial.
 
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