washington57
Well-Known Member
How is that relevant. Union members don't have to sign anything you shove in their face.
go cry about it more
Is there any contract language regarding reviewing personell files?
- Thread starter PE Pro
- Start date
How is that relevant. Union members don't have to sign anything you shove in their face.
go cry about it more
22.3and happy
07/36
We all have the right to view our personnel files per federal law. Also, I've signed company documents(safety, training etc.), I've also signed documents when I've been injured(of course it's my fault, failure to follow the methods). My attorney friend has told me that these docs aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I'd suggest getting a new lawyer ... that's one of the most ignorant pieces of advice that's ever been given by a lawyer.
washington57
Well-Known Member
you bitter management types need to stop getting so worked up about their employees refusing to sign documents which are unfair to them and not in their best interest to sign. if ups wasn't okay with article 6 then during contract negotiations they would offer higher pay for set production standards. but they don't so stick to the contract and stop harassing employees who wish to exercise their rights under the contract that ups agreed to.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I agree that management should not get worked up.
It has always been the right of an employee not to sign anything.
I never even thought about it ... just made a note that it was reviewed with employee and they refused to sign and got a witness to sign it.
It has the same effect/impact during any disciplinary proceedings that happen.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
So we should only sign those documents that we agree with and RTS the rest? Let us know how that works out for you.
washington57
Well-Known Member
Why would you sign anything that you didn't absolutely have to? Let's say the worst happens and UPS wants to fire you for any number of reasons they can then use your signature against you.
And Hoax an RTS does show that you did show said document to an employee but it also means that the employee disagrees with the information on it.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You may want to go back and re-read what Hoax said---especially the last sentence.
Whether you choose to sign a document or not has no relevance as to whether that document applies to you.
Then why sign it?
PE Pro,For all you people who say we don't have to sign, what do you do when you are asked to sign and what have been the consequences?
It depends on what the document is. Safety / compliance items such as lockout training or forklift pre / post trip, much like a DVIR for the drivers, need to be signed. I have seen mechanics removed from service for refusing to sign lockout training and it being upheld. On the other hand you can RTS OJS and JRD type documentation but, as others have stated, if it comes to discipline RTS doesn't mean anything if the document is accurate and was reviewed with you.
Yes you can review your file HOWEVER, you only can review documents that you have signed. The old dont sign anything but your check is quite the wrong way to do things. If you dont believe that you should be signing something get assistance from your steward, if you are pressed sign the document with the statement "signed under duress"...... This shows you were FORCED to sign the document.
YOu must give them notice and they have a few days to comply, I have never seen a person actually do this. I have seen people smart enough to know WHERE they keep the files in the office then help them just disappear....
YOu must give them notice and they have a few days to comply, I have never seen a person actually do this. I have seen people smart enough to know WHERE they keep the files in the office then help them just disappear....
Thats a sure way to get yourself fired, ups puts cameras in the strangest places, you will get caught, its just a matter of time.
What makes you say that?
22.34life
Well-Known Member
must be different by supplement and region cause in texas we can look at ours anytime we want.if your supplement allows this i would strongly suggest looking at it a few times a year ,you would be suprised what you find in there.
ShopStewardLocal177
Active Member
You don't have to sign, simply state that you refuse to sign. Management does not ask me anymore, they know that I don't sign.For all you people who say we don't have to sign, what do you do when you are asked to sign and what have been the consequences?
So what would you recommend if the training we are given consists of sitting in a room with a full time PE Supervisor who hands out the Lockout Training test, the Yard Control Safety Training Test and the Live Conveyor Training Test and the Sup Commences to go over the answers of the tests with the group? You're telling me I can be removed from service for not signing this nonsense??? Any suggestions?
So what would you recommend if the training we are given consists of sitting in a room with a full time PE Supervisor who hands out the Lockout Training test, the Yard Control Safety Training Test and the Live Conveyor Training Test and the Sup Commences to go over the answers of the tests with the group? You're telling me I can be removed from service for not signing this nonsense??? Any suggestions?
It depends on how he / she is 'going over the answers'. If they are generally reviewing all of the subject matter, and in the process cover the answers, that is training. If they sit you down in a room and say don't bother reading the test, the answer to question 1 is True, the answer to question 2 is D then it's an issue. You've previously mentioned differences with your local management team, so make sure you're not letting that color your perception as some, depending upon what is actually happening, might see this as a clash of personalities. If it is truly the second scenario, use the open door policy. You don't have to go to your PE management team if you feel uncomfortable doing so. You can go to the Safety Manager or Employee Relations Supervisor / Manager (HR).
Ultimately, you, me and any other person who is lockout certified needs to understand lockout, live conveyor, etc.. Not to belabor the obvious, but the potential hazard is such that our understanding needs to be clear and certain. Both from a common sense and regulatory perspective. The training, tests, and rosters are how we demonstrate that understanding. If you are not willing to 'demonstrate' that understanding, the risk is too great to allow you to work on the equipment. If you disagree with the test, it has been accepted as appropriate by OSHA. If you are unable to legitimately answer because of inadequate training then that needs to be addressed ASAP. The best I can recommend in an anonymous world is what I said above. But I will repeat to make sure differences with your management team are not coloring your perceptions.
Almost forgot - this is my opinion and not necessarily the view of the organization.
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DS
Fenderbender
Duh, they are the biggest problem.
We strive to make the customer happy,they just want to look good to their boss.
good intentions bad corporate ethics
