keyless entry
- Thread starter retired2000
- Start date
40 and out
Well-Known Member
Not having to mess with keys is NICE. 6 minutes saved is high. No extra stops here yet.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
P-man,
I am not doubting you, and the 6 minutes figure you quote seems at least plausible.
I am wondering how this figure was arrived at and how it will be applied.
I did an experiment and "timed" myself opening the door with the key. I then closed the door without latching it and "timed" myelf opening it without the key. I found that not using the key saved me about 1.5 seconds every time I opened the door.
If we round this figure up to an even 2 seconds, then in order to save 6 minutes I would have to open my bulkhead door 120 times per day.
Is the 6 minute figure an average? Or is it based upon the number of stops done? And does it account for the fact that, in an apartment complex or a high-density residential area, the driver might pull multiple stops out of the bulkhead door and deliver them from one park postion? I can see this being really unfair for rural drivers who dont do a lot of stops, or high-volume drivers who do a lot of work from one park position.
There are lots of rumors and figures being thrown about. Do you know for a fact that it is indeed 6 minutes per driver, and can you shed some light on how this figure was arrived at?
iamupser
Grease Monkey
It pops open automatically (when it's set up properly 
Like I said, there are some "adjustments" until it's "perfect")
Also, how many "write ups" mechanics get for "lock cores" needing to be replaced, and keys breaking in the ignition switch (granted new system may have relays fail instead of an ignition switch, only time will tell), IMO I think overall this is good and should have been implemented a long time ago.
Just think of your own car with Keyless Entry, it's GOOD THING!
Like I said, there are some "adjustments" until it's "perfect")Also, how many "write ups" mechanics get for "lock cores" needing to be replaced, and keys breaking in the ignition switch (granted new system may have relays fail instead of an ignition switch, only time will tell), IMO I think overall this is good and should have been implemented a long time ago.
Just think of your own car with Keyless Entry, it's GOOD THING!
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soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
It certainly has the potential to be a good thing, as long as the company's expectations for how much time it saves are fair and realistic.
Remember that we work for a company that made a business decision that our lives are not worth the $40 expense of a 3 point seatbelt. We work for a company that intentionally deleted power steering and basic ergonomic features from vehicles built as recently as 1990. So it is absurd to assume that that same company went ahead and spent $750 installing keyless entry just to be "nice" to us. This was an investment, and the company is expecting a return on that investment in the form of higher stop counts and fewer routes.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Sober,
I'm not 100% sure, but....
The 6 minutes MUST be an average. The savings has to be based on the number of stops with an average of 6 minutes per driver.
Anyone who says this means 10 stops is wrong. Again on average, 6 minutes is 2 or 3 more stops.
I honestly do not know if the 6 minutes is derived from time studies or if its derived from actual observances.
I do know this though...
They have been testing this for a long time. Some drivers have been using it for years. If they did their job right, they can back up the number from actual observations and results.
Contrary to what many may think, there are many groups in UPS that challenge things like this. They would want proof that its a good thing. Whoever came up with this is requesting many 10's of millions of dollars from the management committee. They would have to prove that its worthwhile.
So, I don't know the specifics on how they calculated the 6 minutes, but as I said, it must be an average.
Your original post was about installing it in an old car. The math I did showed that if the 6 minutes holds true, on average it will pay for itself in about 6 months.
At least on this board, it seems that drivers that have it like it. I take that as a good sign.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
A driver who averages 15 SPORH is completing a stop every 4 minutes, so you could theoretically justify adding 1.5 stops per day to this driver by equipping his car with keyless entry. In order to justify adding 2 or 3 stops, you would have to average between 17.5 and 20 SPORH and on my center at least there are very few routes where such a pace is even remotely possible.
I dont doubt for a minute that keyless entry will make the job "easier"....but if it results in my bid route being eliminated and me busting my butt on someone elses overdispatched route at 8:30 on a 100-degree August evening, I can tell you that I probably will not "like" it.
Its not the new equipment itself that concerns me....its the typical UPS fuzzy math that concerns me.
One other thing; it would be nice if those who sold the Management Committee on this new equipment would consider doing a comparison test on new vehicles vs. the old ones with high steps and no power steering. I can tell you from personal experience that working out of a modern vehicle saves over an hour per day on a given route compared to doing the same work out of an old "iron maiden". The same logic that was used to justify the expense of keyless entry could easily be applied to taking the old cars out of service and immediately replacing them with modern ones.
HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
The funny thing is when will the higher-ups figure out that a happy driver is far more productive than a beatup Grand Canyon mule !!
Plus they won't need to throw their money on new technology and will also provide a pretty nice benefit !!
CharleyHustle
Well-Known Member
Why do you think the 6 minutes wont be used to reduce the "paid day"?
It can reduce the planned day....only a driver can reduce his/her paid day by working a little faster than normal, and no new technology is going to change that, not for me at least
UnconTROLLed
perfection
I do like the new keyless entry, although we're mostly using them on older P800s and 1000s. The whole ease of keyless entry is to make our lives easier and safer, nothing to do with putting more stops on car, after all, so I perform the startup routine much more smoothly and relaxed now and those seconds are not "made up". Sorry I.E.
menotyou
bella amicizia
My car is in the shop. They post pics online for me to check up on, when I choose. It amazes me the tools they have to make the job easier. And, to prevent injuries. The keyless entry on our trucks is like giving these guys in the shop a keyless entry to the bathroom. It has no real value.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
How can you assess the value of something without having actually tried it?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Yeah--so do I--it is much quicker than fumbling for my keys.
Plus the kids and I play "find the car" when we are at the mall or in a large parking lot.
Every one of the FedEx Express drivers that I have spoken to love keyless entry.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I am not saying it's not easier. It is. I love mine, as I just pull on the door handle and my car 'knows' to unlock itself and let me in. No key fumbling. I just feel its a gimmick. If they really cared about us, the would put a ventilation system in like OSHA says we should have. Maybe, hydraulic lifters for heavy's inside. Or, a million other things they could do to make our life easier. They opted for the keyless entry probably because it saves 6 minutes and Fred was taunting Scott about it.
Anonymous 10
Guest
The real value is the extra stops we will all get. This can put us all closer to the grave which will get us all off the payroll a little bit quicker.
tracker2762
Well-Known Member
We are currently getting these installed in our center. I know alot has been said about added more work, but I'm going to look at this as not having to pull the door opened and closed over 300 times a day. I will wait and see about the extra work. For that to happen, they'll have too install a roof rack.
Shhhhhh! Don't give them any ideas, they read this site!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Keyless entry is being installed on the cars in my center right now. I have seen the equipment, but I personally have not yet used a car with the system installed.
A couple of observations; the drivers who have keyless entry are all of a sudden showing up on the Telematics report for multiple (like 40 or 50) violations of having the BH door open while the car is moving, when they previously had zero in a car with a standard lock. Not that showing up on the report actually matters, but it is obvious that there is a glitch to be worked out.
There are also issues with the push-button starting on older cars with manual transmissions. Not all of the older cars came with neutral safety switches (starter wont engage unless clutch pedal depressed) and on the cars that do have it many of the switches dont work. One complaint I am hearing from unassigned drivers is that they are having difficulty adapting to different routines when switching from a new car with keyless entry to a new car without it and then again to a stick shift car that does have it.
The back doors are going to be an issue on some cars. The 1000's or 800's with rollup doors and the newer P-7's with sliding pocket doors are all pretty straightforward. I have yet to see the system installed on a P-7 with the swing-open "barn" doors, and it is not clear to me how they will make keyless entry work on those cars due to the design of the door. And I am assuming that the pup trailers will still have normal locks since they dont have a battery of their own to power the system.
Our key fobs are all mounted on carabiner clips that you hang from your belt loop. I know that I will have to keep mine in my pocket; 24 years of moving my fat ass in and out of a package car has taught me that anything that I clip to my belt is going to wind up snagging or catching on a protruding object and getting torn off at some point during my workday. I have a drawer full of old broken pagers, DIAD clips, cell-phone clips and Leatherman holsters that can all attest to this inevitable fact. Ideally, there would also be a way to mount the key fob on a brown terry-cloth wristband.
A couple of observations; the drivers who have keyless entry are all of a sudden showing up on the Telematics report for multiple (like 40 or 50) violations of having the BH door open while the car is moving, when they previously had zero in a car with a standard lock. Not that showing up on the report actually matters, but it is obvious that there is a glitch to be worked out.
There are also issues with the push-button starting on older cars with manual transmissions. Not all of the older cars came with neutral safety switches (starter wont engage unless clutch pedal depressed) and on the cars that do have it many of the switches dont work. One complaint I am hearing from unassigned drivers is that they are having difficulty adapting to different routines when switching from a new car with keyless entry to a new car without it and then again to a stick shift car that does have it.
The back doors are going to be an issue on some cars. The 1000's or 800's with rollup doors and the newer P-7's with sliding pocket doors are all pretty straightforward. I have yet to see the system installed on a P-7 with the swing-open "barn" doors, and it is not clear to me how they will make keyless entry work on those cars due to the design of the door. And I am assuming that the pup trailers will still have normal locks since they dont have a battery of their own to power the system.
Our key fobs are all mounted on carabiner clips that you hang from your belt loop. I know that I will have to keep mine in my pocket; 24 years of moving my fat ass in and out of a package car has taught me that anything that I clip to my belt is going to wind up snagging or catching on a protruding object and getting torn off at some point during my workday. I have a drawer full of old broken pagers, DIAD clips, cell-phone clips and Leatherman holsters that can all attest to this inevitable fact. Ideally, there would also be a way to mount the key fob on a brown terry-cloth wristband.
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