There will be some interesting contract negotiations coming up. I plan on working very safely and by the book, thus guaranteeing me a substantial salary also filing as many grievances as possible to make sure UPS follows our contract. All that extra money will fund my 401k to the max, which will make up the difference in the pension. Thanks UPS for giving me this great work ethic.
local 804 pension problems
- Thread starter psstdrvr
- Start date
B
Brown and Down
Guest
Probably all leverage to give us little to nothing next contract. ...."OK we wont touch your pensions but no raises and now you have to pay for your medical".. Also probably just a rumor but there is talk of a walkout on Dec 17th. I say give em hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
satellitedriver
Moderator
You guys are going to find out you are POINTING your fingers at the wrong PEOPLE. Get your facts straight and then you can blame whomever.
I'm telling you guys, WE under Central STATES did the same thing when our pension was cut. It's going to hit you guys like a TON of BRICKS when you find out the WHOLE story.
I'm telling you guys, WE under Central STATES did the same thing when our pension was cut. It's going to hit you guys like a TON of BRICKS when you find out the WHOLE story.
YAKMASTA
Member
CORRECTION IT WAS A 7 MAN VOTE 3 UPS 3 LOCAL 804 AND THE DECIDING VOTE THAT DROVE THE STAKE INTO OUR BACKS IS/WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE INSIDE GUYS ( AUTOMOTIVE AND ENGINEERING ) 447 I BELIEVE IS THE LOCAL I WONDER HOW MUCH CASH HE TOOK TO THROW HIS MEMBERS UNDER THE BUS
For those who think a wildcat will work are crazy. It didn`t work to keep the 150 lb package out did it ? The company is promoting this with the blessing of the IBT ! If you look around everyone is usually financed up to their eyeballs in debt. House,cars,day care etc ? Who can walk away anyhow ? South Florida housing market is extremely expensive to live hear. Taxes on a $400,000 home purchased recently are over $8500 a year and hurricane insurance is $3500 and rising every year. This home is only 1600 sq ft. ? Rent for a nice one bedroom is $925. Rent for a 3 bedroom exceeds $1600. You will not be able to retire is South Florida unless you have won the lottery ! Especially on a Central States pension. Its easy to say to keep putting max in your 401k but at the end of the week there`s very little to do so for most people and those that are starting out there hands are tied. The company is spending big bucks to lobby senators and congressman to get there concessions. IBT waits til the last minute and says they tried to turn the tables but no luck ? Day late and a dollar short as usual. Those people are really finding out what is coming down the pike when New York pesnions are taking a hit for 30%
now the Central State guys weren`t lieing. And it won`t stop here it has just begun. Like last contract the crap is just starting right after the election. And for those that think this is the representation deserving of your $68 a month consider this a drop in the bucket for what you will be giving up in pension securities.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
As a CSer, there is a lot I could say to the 804 folks but I think the guys with the band Guns & Roses probably said it best back in the 1980's.
From a CSer to the 804 folks, "WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!"
Welcome to the jungle
We've got fun 'n' games
We got everything you want
Honey, we know the names
We are the people that can find
Whatever you may need
If you got the money, honey
We got your disease
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
knees, knees
I wanna watch you bleed
Max those 401k's, IRA's and other individual vehicles becuase in the end that may be all you will have because between Uncle Sammy, Lil' Jr. Hoffa and Mighty Buster Brown, you are gonna get screwed in the end. Even the UPS management is starting to have real concerns about their futures regarding retirement.
Damn shame we can't wise up, pool our resources together (no Div. Manager or above allowed, eat your options MFer's)and have an awesome plan that all of us who do the real work can get out of here after 25 or 30 years and enjoy the good life with a real plan that is safe and secure from the playful fingers of both the union and the company bean counters and Wall Street chasers!
IT'S OUR MONEY, NOT THEIRS!!!!!!!
JMO.
From a CSer to the 804 folks, "WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!"
Welcome to the jungle
We've got fun 'n' games
We got everything you want
Honey, we know the names
We are the people that can find
Whatever you may need
If you got the money, honey
We got your disease
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
knees, knees
I wanna watch you bleed
Max those 401k's, IRA's and other individual vehicles becuase in the end that may be all you will have because between Uncle Sammy, Lil' Jr. Hoffa and Mighty Buster Brown, you are gonna get screwed in the end. Even the UPS management is starting to have real concerns about their futures regarding retirement.
Damn shame we can't wise up, pool our resources together (no Div. Manager or above allowed, eat your options MFer's)and have an awesome plan that all of us who do the real work can get out of here after 25 or 30 years and enjoy the good life with a real plan that is safe and secure from the playful fingers of both the union and the company bean counters and Wall Street chasers!
IT'S OUR MONEY, NOT THEIRS!!!!!!!
JMO.
I don’t know for sure but I been told that the local unions are in control over the pension. UPS pays money into the account along with other unionized companies (multi-employer pension). a lot of the other companies have went out of business and now not all of the money that UPS pays into the union goes to the UPS employees as some of it goes to other union retires that never worked at UPS because their company folded. I also been told this was the major issue with the strike. UPS wanted to take over the pension. I herd the rest of the offer was fairly good but the unions didn’t want to give up control of the pension because it would bankrupt the other retires from the other companies. It would be nice to finally know the truth about this.
Real sad but so true mac.What has happend here is a case of the rats .There are two kinds FAT RATS and HUNGRY RATS sad for the fat rats because the hungry rats are still hungry.They the IBT started with central states and slow but surely are working on eating all the other plans.I am just guessing but it's comeing down the pipe get ready when the new contract comes out to pay something for health care.The APWA sure looks more and more appealing every day.Im just wondering how long the employees will sit back and watch everything they have worked hard for go out the window before they act?IT"S our money but sad when the rats control it.Because as the hugry rats get fatter the worker rats lend up starving to death slow but surely.Last all I can say Is the employees are not going to change the way the IBT does buisness so you have to change your union.The way the Ibt works is in the interest of the president of the union which is to get rich and don't worry who we hurt in th process.If you can't impeach him it's time to change to a union that will represent the employees with the gains being for the employees,not the other way around.
local804
Well-Known Member
The pension meeting was held on November 28th and there were "8" people that voted. Chris Langan, Jack Dempsey, MaryannTwidle, Mike Rosentrater, and President of local 447 Jim Conigliaro voted to reduce future pension benefits starting January 1,2007. Bill Buhlert, Howie redmond, and Tony Magrene(local 804) voted against the motion. 5-3 vote. Meeting is as stands Sunday December 17 10 am sharp.
Cya there
Cya there
Still remember the local meeting in our area with a representative of Central States explaining the cuts. Here is a hint, keep the hot heads and those trying to run for office from hogging the floor. Get your smart people to organize a list of questions and make sure you understand their responses, grab any paper that helps explain why these cuts are necessary. Should be two representatives there, one company and one union, expect the company one not to be present to answer questions. The people who are going to be affected more with these cuts are going to the less seniority ones, help them out. Just from looking at your benefits, anybody with 20 plus years under the plan will not be hurting that much. Again, watch for raises in your retirement health and welfare costs prior to age 62, and elimination of that 25 and out benefit. The longer they can keep from paying our pension and health and welfare benefits, the better the plan will do and that is all these trustees are concerned about.
Let's be honest here. When you say that you don't think it will get that bad for you, you are only concerned with yourself. You could care less about what the people in Central States are getting. Now that your pension has been cut, you are more concerned. However, if you think that the pension cuts are going to stop here, you are kidding yourself. This is just the beginning. Consider that UPS is lobbying congress to avoid paying for employees from other companies in multipension plans. If UPS wins, and they probably will, then they will contribute less money into the pension fund. Then the pension administrators have no choice but to reduce your pension further. This scenario is going to spread throughout the country. No pension fund is safe any longer, whether it is a multi-pension fund or not. Please wise up already. There is an alternative to solve this crisis. The employees of UPS must act now and vote to replace the Teamsters with another union that represents UPS employees only. This will ensure that all the pension money goes to UPS people, and that it will be fully funded. When you retire, you will have security knowing that your money is safe. As of now, none of us have any financial security as far as the pension is concerned. This can be done, but the APWA needs your help and your vote. For those of you who believe the Teamster propaganda regarding the APWA, why don't you ask the Teamsters where your pension money is? Also, ask them how much are they collecting in their pension. Why haven't they been cut as well? Don't take their word for it, ask them to verify it. It seems to me that we are working for them, when they should be working for us!!!!
Gman24 is right on. If your plan ends up like Central States Health Insurance, you will be shocked when you have to fork out $500 bucks for a Lab or Radiologist Bill that your doctor ordered.
Here is how pension funding works: Monetary contributions are put into a investment porfolio according to the contract. The ultimate goal of any pension fund is to be 100 percent vested, which means basically that it can pay the benefits promised with just the interest off the investments. The additional monetary contributions of top of the investment interest would be put into increasing the benefit for the participants.
Alot of blame with this pension crisis is being put on the teamster pensioners that were working for these bankrupt/defunct companies. Some people are trying to convince you that they are only free loading and draining your future retirement benefits. Truth is they are only collecting what they are eligible for with the contributions that they also have been paying into the plan. When these companies went belly up, those union employees if they were not eligible to collect retirement will not get any credit vested years and lost any chance for anymore monetary contributions. Their benefit, if vested is locked into a bare minimun till they reach age 65, the pension fund collects the interest off their contributions for the years prior to them collecting anything. If they were so lucky to get on with another teamster union shop they will continue to contribute and add vesting years and increase their pension benefits.
Basically the monetary benefit of your retirement is determined by your contributions and the plan's investments when you leave the plan, whether terminated or collecting a full pension. When a plan gets into trouble it is generally due to lack of new participants, bad investments or promising a benefit that they cannot pay for. Would be save to say that the Central States fund would fall in those three catagories, so-called "Perfect Storm".
Alot of blame with this pension crisis is being put on the teamster pensioners that were working for these bankrupt/defunct companies. Some people are trying to convince you that they are only free loading and draining your future retirement benefits. Truth is they are only collecting what they are eligible for with the contributions that they also have been paying into the plan. When these companies went belly up, those union employees if they were not eligible to collect retirement will not get any credit vested years and lost any chance for anymore monetary contributions. Their benefit, if vested is locked into a bare minimun till they reach age 65, the pension fund collects the interest off their contributions for the years prior to them collecting anything. If they were so lucky to get on with another teamster union shop they will continue to contribute and add vesting years and increase their pension benefits.
Basically the monetary benefit of your retirement is determined by your contributions and the plan's investments when you leave the plan, whether terminated or collecting a full pension. When a plan gets into trouble it is generally due to lack of new participants, bad investments or promising a benefit that they cannot pay for. Would be save to say that the Central States fund would fall in those three catagories, so-called "Perfect Storm".
J
JonFrum
Guest
Are you willing to do some homework? It's not that hard.
Free Erisa Dot Com has the last five years of your pension plan's annual financial reports online. (I assume this is the correct plan.) Free Erisa is free, but you do have to register your email address. The online versions of the reports are not the full versions, but they will get you started. Just visit Free Erisa and after registering and getting your confirmatory email, do a search of their Form 5500 data base for Company Name Contains: 804. Click on each year of the Plan in turn, and click on Show All. Save a copy of each year's report to your hard drive.
Welcome to freeErisa.com!
BD OF TRUSTEES LOC 804 & LOC 447 MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
55 GLENLAKE PKWY NE
ATLANTA GA 30328
Plan Number: 001
Plan Name: LOCAL 804 IBT AND LOCAL 447 IAM - UPS MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
Form 5500 Annual Reports available for: 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000. 2005 will be available soon.
- - - - -
According to Moody's 16-page August 2006 report on major pension plans (using 2004 data) . . .
Local 804 I.B.T. and Local 447 IAM UPS Multi-employer Retirement Plan had:
Net Plan Assets of $624.5 million
Liabilities of $1,183 million
Funded Status of 59%
Total Annual Contributions of $43.6 million
Underfunding Multiple of 5.0x
A Funded Status of only 59% means that for every dollar of future retirement benefits the fund has promissed to pay, it has only 59 cents available to pay those obligations.
The Underfunding Multiple of 5.0x means that in order to cure the underfunding problem the Employers would have to contribute 5 times as much as they normally would in any one year. For example, if the annual contribution was $10,000 per participant, then a contribution of $50,000 per participant was in fact needed to cure the funding deficiency. Instead of contributing $43.6 million in 2004, a contribution of $218 million was needed.
http://www.ifebp.org/pdf/moodysmethodology.pdf
Jump to the Transportation Industry section on page 15 to compare your plan to other plans in the same industry. Save a copy to your hard drive.
And Pay Attention To Your Pension!
Free Erisa Dot Com has the last five years of your pension plan's annual financial reports online. (I assume this is the correct plan.) Free Erisa is free, but you do have to register your email address. The online versions of the reports are not the full versions, but they will get you started. Just visit Free Erisa and after registering and getting your confirmatory email, do a search of their Form 5500 data base for Company Name Contains: 804. Click on each year of the Plan in turn, and click on Show All. Save a copy of each year's report to your hard drive.
Welcome to freeErisa.com!
BD OF TRUSTEES LOC 804 & LOC 447 MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
55 GLENLAKE PKWY NE
ATLANTA GA 30328
Plan Number: 001
Plan Name: LOCAL 804 IBT AND LOCAL 447 IAM - UPS MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
Form 5500 Annual Reports available for: 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000. 2005 will be available soon.
- - - - -
According to Moody's 16-page August 2006 report on major pension plans (using 2004 data) . . .
Local 804 I.B.T. and Local 447 IAM UPS Multi-employer Retirement Plan had:
Net Plan Assets of $624.5 million
Liabilities of $1,183 million
Funded Status of 59%
Total Annual Contributions of $43.6 million
Underfunding Multiple of 5.0x
A Funded Status of only 59% means that for every dollar of future retirement benefits the fund has promissed to pay, it has only 59 cents available to pay those obligations.
The Underfunding Multiple of 5.0x means that in order to cure the underfunding problem the Employers would have to contribute 5 times as much as they normally would in any one year. For example, if the annual contribution was $10,000 per participant, then a contribution of $50,000 per participant was in fact needed to cure the funding deficiency. Instead of contributing $43.6 million in 2004, a contribution of $218 million was needed.
http://www.ifebp.org/pdf/moodysmethodology.pdf
Jump to the Transportation Industry section on page 15 to compare your plan to other plans in the same industry. Save a copy to your hard drive.
And Pay Attention To Your Pension!
TIME TO GET RID OF THE CORRUPTION AND SLASHING THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON. TIME TO GET RID OF teamsters AND VOTE IN THE APWA
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Cezanne,
I would agree that there are many reasons the pensions are facing crisis but you seem to contradict yourself above.
So what you are suggesting then is these folks are only drawing out what they put in and nothing more that is taken from other sources meaning members from other active companies. If that's true then why make the following statement.
Why are new participants needed? According to your plan, their (new participants) monetary contributions are stored away and invested for their future use when they retire. Why would new participants be needed if as you say Yellow Frieghters use Yellow Freight money, UPSer's use UPS money and the defunct Bee-Bo's Truckline employees are only using Bee-Bo money before they went belly up. According to your explaination the "When a plan gets into trouble it is generally due to lack of new participants" should never had been made in the post or even under any consideration at all. What you are suggesting is currently present in the system is a kind of partition that UPS presented a couple of years ago that oddly enough the IBT and fellow travelers fought tooth and nail to keep out. Funny they would fight so hard to keep out what you are suggesting they have!
Wkmac,
You would have to finish my last statement, the lack of new participants is just ONE of the reasons that the Central States trust is underfunded. Of the three listed I believe that the raising of the benefits without the ability to pay for said benefit is the main reason for the current underfundng. The "baby boomer" generation that most of us close to retirement hit all the retirement trusts recently. The events that is happening with most all the Teamster's trusts is also occuring with the Social Security fund, any chance of having healthy, young and contributing participants continue to pay into a plan over the next thirty years would help any benefit plan.
Will this underfunding turn the corner in the next 10 years? To answer that question just look at how many people or organizations are trying to get their hands on our retirement. There is a reason that all of a sudden the AWPA has appeared and that the company has been eager to take control of our retirement funds, these are not dumb people.
One thing I am not saying is that the union has not greatly contributed to this problem. Playing politics with promised benefits and poor investment planning. But really we are in a situation to who do you trust to have control of your future. "Choose wisely"
You would have to finish my last statement, the lack of new participants is just ONE of the reasons that the Central States trust is underfunded. Of the three listed I believe that the raising of the benefits without the ability to pay for said benefit is the main reason for the current underfundng. The "baby boomer" generation that most of us close to retirement hit all the retirement trusts recently. The events that is happening with most all the Teamster's trusts is also occuring with the Social Security fund, any chance of having healthy, young and contributing participants continue to pay into a plan over the next thirty years would help any benefit plan.
Will this underfunding turn the corner in the next 10 years? To answer that question just look at how many people or organizations are trying to get their hands on our retirement. There is a reason that all of a sudden the AWPA has appeared and that the company has been eager to take control of our retirement funds, these are not dumb people.
One thing I am not saying is that the union has not greatly contributed to this problem. Playing politics with promised benefits and poor investment planning. But really we are in a situation to who do you trust to have control of your future. "Choose wisely"
