GOOD! About time we get rid of all the dead wood.
A
add it up
Guest
If the formula is correct a manager making $6500 per month with 20 years would get about $600K. Sounds like a lot of money, right?
What would the current pension pay out equal for the same person? (or a teamster, machinist, etc.)
Based on 23 years (55 years old to death at 78) life expectancy the pay out would equal over $1.3 million if the retirement pays 60% of the current compensation. Keep in mind the manager is likely to get about 3% per year in raises, so the final income would be considerably higher and would result in higher retirement because the retirement is based on the last five years average compensation.
Add in the additional 3% match and you would get about $35k in additional contributions over the next 15 years. $635k vs. $1.3 million is the "deal"
It's not the ultimate deal.
What would the current pension pay out equal for the same person? (or a teamster, machinist, etc.)
Based on 23 years (55 years old to death at 78) life expectancy the pay out would equal over $1.3 million if the retirement pays 60% of the current compensation. Keep in mind the manager is likely to get about 3% per year in raises, so the final income would be considerably higher and would result in higher retirement because the retirement is based on the last five years average compensation.
Add in the additional 3% match and you would get about $35k in additional contributions over the next 15 years. $635k vs. $1.3 million is the "deal"
It's not the ultimate deal.
constructively dissatisfi
Well-Known Member
But in order to get your full pension you'd have to wait until you're 55. To be able to leave and take a sizable chunk of your money with you rather than leave it on the table has a lot of appeal to MANY people I know. UPS has become a lousy place to work. People are treated badly,the pay sucks and the work sucks. To complete your analysis you'd also have to figure in how much more you could make somewhere else and what you'd gain in personal satisfaction for the remainder of your career. You'd also have to calculate the present value of that $1.3M to make a valid comparison
Channahon:
You seemed to have some details from the first buyout. Didn't you say that they recieved a 50% pension and a lump sum that was paid out in 4 payments over two years. I would be interested if you could elaborate on what you know about the buyout from earlier this year.
You seemed to have some details from the first buyout. Didn't you say that they recieved a 50% pension and a lump sum that was paid out in 4 payments over two years. I would be interested if you could elaborate on what you know about the buyout from earlier this year.
Maybe your not getting the big picture here.....Maybe company is looking to trim some mgmt. Maybe they are not only looking at the (dead wood, old timers etc. etc). Maybe they are looking to cut all pensions to 401k's, benefits and long time employees. No mgmt MIP below Div. Mgr. level. If that could be it, THINK, no one after 10 to 15 years. That way no one has higher pay scale, no 4, 5, 6 week vacations. Nobody to retire with benefits. Put your 10 or 12 years in and hit the road and take your 401k with you. Maybe they are looking for short term employees. Less pay,less injuries (younger work force), less vacation time. Maybe they do not want career UPS'ERS. Looks like everyone is thinking its 20 plus years of service and 50 plus years old. It's a bigger plan and we have only seen a very small part....my opinion only.
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
Sadly, the answer to your question is yes. My hub's sorts are screaming for p/t supervisors. I've seen a couple recent promotees I wouldn't entrust management of a rat farm to! Quality of new management is non-existent. One guy I talked to grumbled, "They must have gone under the trash can to get that guy," in reference to a recent promotee. And these are the future of this company! Really sad. -Rocky
constructively dissatisfi
Well-Known Member
If you think about it, a necessary qualification for going into management these days is stupidity. Why would anyone accept below market pay with a large part of it based on achieving goals you don't know and have no control over. Then they take another large chunk and put it in UPS stock spread over 5 years. The stock is at the same price it was 8 years ago. All the other perks that used to be incentives are on the chopping block or already gone. This is without even getting into the crummy work environment and how poorly people are treated. If I were looking at a UPS management job today I would run far and run fast. There are much more rewarding things you could do with your life.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Could it be the management candidates of today are told little, if any, of what you describe?
Could it be going into management today is done for survival because the candidates know if they stay in package cars their body will self-destruct?
Could it be the management candidates are overwhelmed and succumb to the glitter, gloss, glory and prestige of being able to tell their friends they are in managment to, eventually, realize the truth you have conveyed?
Could it be.......?
The payout is over a 2 year period, every 6 months. The payout comes first and then at retirement age of 55 he will get 50% of what his pension would have been. All stock options are to be exercised as well. Along with RSU's and RPU's.Channahon:
You seemed to have some details from the first buyout. Didn't you say that they recieved a 50% pension and a lump sum that was paid out in 4 payments over two years. I would be interested if you could elaborate on what you know about the buyout from earlier this year.
It is not 635K vs. 1.3M, if you had the 635K you have it invested until the time you retire, in my case with 21 years in and only 39 years old at 6% interest over the next 16 years that would equal around $1.7M. You could put this in an annuity or bond and draw somewhere around $8400 a month the rest of your life and never touch the principal. Not to mention if I live another day or 40 years the money would go to my wife and kids, what happens to my pension if I die tomorrow? Does my family get anything? I think the buyout (if there even is one) is a very good thing for most, I would much rather have the money than take the chance of it being there at 55, there is alot that could happen between now and then, given UPS track record of the last few years and how in my opinion managers and supervisors continue to get less and less (MIP, benifits, etc...) I don't trust UPS with the pension benifit, I see us working longer and longer for less. In my opinion partnership no longer includes managers and supervisors. Give me mine now, then if I decide next year I don't want to do this any longer I can go do something I enjoy.
M
mmmmmmiiiiiiiippppppppp
Guest
IBM tried it, did it, and is better for it. Sued or not, their pension is gone and never coming back. In the past year IBM stock has increased 20% while UPS stock... Management pension's clock is running out. Whether the announcement is next week, next month, or next year; it is gone.
upsandDOWNS
Member
Eskew scheduled to be in metro pa next week when board meets in Delaware. He will announce pension plan reform there.
A
add it up
Guest
I agree that the 635K will be substancially more in the futurer if invested. You'll still be lucky to match the current pension. I can assure you that any changes made will be to benefit the company and upper management at the expense of low/mid level mangement and our non-union people. With 20 years we are somewhat protected. By law your current pension benefits can't be reduced without your approval if the plan is funded. The pay-off is the bait needed for your approval. The cost saving will begin when the current plan is frozen or eliminated. The additional 3% at 6500 per month salery would cost ( if, and only if, you contribute) UPS an additional $2,340 per year or a total of 4,680 per year including the current 3% match. That's far less than what it costs to fund the current plan and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you put less in you'll get less out. 3jb
I agree, many people, especailly those with not many years in, will get far less over the long run than others, it just happens to work well for others like me, over 20 years in but only around 40. I haven't run the numbers but thinking about it it would not be good for those over 50 becaue they couldn't take the lump sum like I can and have it invested for a long period of time. This will definitey be a cost savings for the company in the long run as the additional 3% match definetely has to be cheaper than funding a pension program. In the end management will get less and less, I just think this is inevitable weather there is a buyout of the pension or not. UPS does not have to negotiate with a union to cut management compensation. The new UPS will always take the path of least resistance, right and wrong is no longer important to the decission makers (grade 20's and above).
From another board...
Will announce; Pension (management) will be frozen at current level. Increase 401K match to 6% WIll still need to work to age 55(possible raised to age 57) Definitely no buy out, to many good sups and mgrs leaving already. MIP will be phased out for non-operation supervisors in 4 years.
Will announce; Pension (management) will be frozen at current level. Increase 401K match to 6% WIll still need to work to age 55(possible raised to age 57) Definitely no buy out, to many good sups and mgrs leaving already. MIP will be phased out for non-operation supervisors in 4 years.
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