need advice

[stevetheupsguy]

you don't consider comments that all they do is eat donuts and hand out trinkets to be derogatory and insulting to them?

I wasn't insulted, and that is half of what we do.

 

[tieguy]

Sounds like we are talking about the automotive manager who wont allow the old trucks to be upgraded to power steering and 3-point belts because of "liability" reasons. Protecting the employees from injury or death is less important than protecting the company from lawsuits or lost profits.

considering the point that the guy can lose his job and or go to jail for having an injury as a result of him making modifications that were not approved I would say I understand where he is coming from.

That unfortunately is a reality of the regulatory issues we face from the government. Feel free to vent on the gov if you don't like it.

 

[tieguy]

I am a representative of the contract no more no less. Ups does not pay me to preach bs!

When an employee gets brought in for working unsafely as in not wearing a seat belt i do address this with the employee.

What an employee does off the clock is no way my responsibility nor yours! You do not tell us what to do for the hours between our shifts.

You really should be explaining why our safety committee can not make changes!

I believe it is because ups never is proactive in any of its stances, only reactive when some thing happens. Why must we wait for the worst to happen before we address it?

Red your answer is still a cop out. You claim concern about your people getting hurt due to fatigue but yet you refuse to do anything to advise them to get enough rest off the job. I'm sorry buddy I love your passion for labor but you're answer is totally screwed up.

If that is your answer then you really don't care about them anymore then ups does. Do you?

 

[tieguy]

What an employee does off the clock is no way my responsibility nor yours! You do not tell us what to do for the hours between our shifts.

And I'm supposed to be concerned about the fatigue factor at work but not the fact the guy may have been out until 2am partying and did not get enough sleep?

 

[705red]

Red your answer is still a cop out. You claim concern about your people getting hurt due to fatigue but yet you refuse to do anything to advise them to get enough rest off the job. I'm sorry buddy I love your passion for labor but you're answer is totally screwed up.

If that is your answer then you really don't care about them anymore then ups does. Do you?

When i am at work, there is no one that cares more about the members. You are twisting things around. You want me tyo tell an employee, "im sorry you worked 10 hours today, but dont go to your kids game, go home and sleep so that you benefit the company better tommorrow"?!

HORSECRAP!

 

[705red]

And I'm supposed to be concerned about the fatigue factor at work but not the fact the guy may have been out until 2am partying and did not get enough sleep?

Thats two faced my friend.

If he was probably out to 2am drinking, he is probably unfit to work by your own negotiated standards!

So you are saying that you would work an employee like this?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Red your answer is still a cop out. You claim concern about your people getting hurt due to fatigue but yet you refuse to do anything to advise them to get enough rest off the job. I'm sorry buddy I love your passion for labor but you're answer is totally screwed up.

If that is your answer then you really don't care about them anymore then ups does. Do you?

I don't agree and feel your using a poor tactic to explain your point. No one controls the employees actions off of the job, so you can't justify your comment to 705. The job does not continue after you punch out, so let's continue the debate between the working ours.

 

[New Englander]

I don't know what the problem is !!

Every driver needs to know the answers to all the Keter questions. They are even paying you to come in early and learn it on the clock. It is managements job to make sure all their employees know them. Do yourself a favor and learn them, then find a way to get yourself off their radar.

Chance you have in trying to beat UPS on this? 0 %

Much like driveways Heff.....is it in our contract that we must learn this stuff?

Or is doing what UPS says and learning this is okay but staying out of driveways isn't?

 

[tieguy]

If he was probably out to 2am drinking, he is probably unfit to work by your own negotiated standards!

So you are saying that you would work an employee like this?

I'm sorry red I know you believe management is omnipotent but I don't really have any way to tell if the guy got enough sleep or not. But chances are he might tell you over a cup of coffee at which point you could show the concern you claim you have and kick his ass for not getting enough sleep.

Lets be honest red fatigue is just an excuse for you and nothing else.

 

[cachsux]

And I'm supposed to be concerned about the fatigue factor at work but not the fact the guy may have been out until 2am partying and did not get enough sleep?

You have a point about the guy out partying but on the flipside I know a very large group of drivers,myself included,who only average 5 hours of sleep a day simply by trying to have a normal life. Mgmt has all kinds of neat posters around pointing out how important sleep is yet they can`t see them as they send guys out for one more "hot load". But so much as scratch it in our fatigued state and it`s our fault.

 

[tieguy]

When i am at work, there is no one that cares more about the members. You are twisting things around. You want me tyo tell an employee, "im sorry you worked 10 hours today, but dont go to your kids game, go home and sleep so that you benefit the company better tommorrow"?!

HORSECRAP!

point proven. fatigue is just an excuse for you nothing else.

 

[705red]

If he was probably out to 2am drinking, he is probably unfit to work by your own negotiated standards!

So you are saying that you would work an employee like this?

I'm sorry red I know you believe management is omnipotent but I don't really have any way to tell if the guy got enough sleep or not. But chances are he might tell you over a cup of coffee at which point you could show the concern you claim you have and kick his ass for not getting enough sleep.

Lets be honest red fatigue is just an excuse for you and nothing else.

I will tell you why! The guy out drinking at night is the same guy that will come in and burn up a route for you. The guys complaining about fatigue are the family guys that do not go out drinking! It benefits you!

point proven. fatigue is just an excuse for you nothing else.

Really? If it was an excuse why did ups spend money on researching when injuries and accidents happen?

Why did they agree to 9.5 language?

Its because fatigued employees do not make reasonable decisions!

Your turn!

 

[tieguy]

I will tell you why! The guy out drinking at night is the same guy that will come in and burn up a route for you. The guys complaining about fatigue are the family guys that do not go out drinking! It benefits you!

Red are you trying to tell me the reason you won't kick his but for not getting enough sleep is because you know he does a great job on production. Sheez I never realized you cared that much about productivity. my bad




Really? If it was an excuse why did ups spend money on researching when injuries and accidents happen?

pay attention big boy. I said it was an excuse for you. You use it as an excuse but you don't walk the talk. I'm talkin about you.

!

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I guess now that 705 helped that guy get his job back, he's gonna be raked over the coals about something else. Tie, from where you are, this may seem understandable, to you. I suggest that you visit the safety teams from other areas, so you can get a true understanding of what is "really" going on.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Much like driveways Heff.....is it in our contract that we must learn this stuff?

Or is doing what UPS says and learning this is okay but staying out of driveways isn't?

You are not understanding the thread.

I said IF the Teamsters made a big production and backed UPS on not allowing trucks on driveways, UPS would be screwed over. I brought up a point of view for a lively discussion. I work as directed like everyone else but I have gone up driveways when it benefitted myself, which is what UPS wants us to do without saying it.

IF the Teamsters came out and made a big production and backed UPS on us memorizing every phrase and keys, UPS would be happy. And from the posts and threads on this site, there would be a lot of EX- Upsers.

 

[705red]

Originally Posted by 705red
I will tell you why! The guy out drinking at night is the same guy that will come in and burn up a route for you. The guys complaining about fatigue are the family guys that do not go out drinking! It benefits you!

Red are you trying to tell me the reason you won't kick his but for not getting enough sleep is because you know he does a great job on production. Sheez I never realized you cared that much about productivity. my bad


Really? If it was an excuse why did ups spend money on researching when injuries and accidents happen?

pay attention big boy. I said it was an excuse for you. You use it as an excuse but you don't walk the talk. I'm talkin about you.

If you are lost for words just say so! Im done handing you your ass until you can debate within reason! Nice spin work, im sure you learned this from fudging numbers. I just cant believe you bring that attitude home with you!

 

[soberups]

now I'm confused. I thought we were all screwed up with having you memorize training information and yet here you are using the same info.

Yes you are confused.

I have never said there is anything wrong with teaching safe driving information.

What I have said....repeatedly....is that there is a lot more to maintaining a "safe by choice" workplace than rote memorization of buzzwords for the purpose of passing an audit.

What I have said....repeatedly....is that UPS has demosntrated to me by its actions over the last 22 years that the safety of its people takes a back seat to production and profits.

What I have said....repeatedly....is that safe equipment, adequate facilities and realistic time standards are far more important to the creation of a safe work enviornment than the ability to recite a commentary.

What I have said...repeatedly....is that a Safety Committee that refuses to hold the company accountable for unsafe equipment, facilities or time standards should not try to pass itself off as a "safety committee", and should instead be honest enough to call itself by its true name....a Keter Audit Commitee.

I hope your confusion has been resolved.

 

[soberups]

Tie, from where you are, this may seem understandable, to you. I suggest that you visit the safety teams from other areas, so you can get a true understanding of what is "really" going on.

He knows what is "really" going on, he is just duty-bound to continue being a cheerleader for the Keter crowd rather than face up to the fact that UPS is totally hypocritical when it comes to the concept of safety.

 

[soberups]

you don't consider comments that all they do is eat donuts and hand out trinkets to be derogatory and insulting to them?

The truth hurts sometimes.

If you can show me a Safety Committee....anywhere....that has ever accomplished anything beyond Keter compliance, "wellness", or Habits acronyms, please do so and give me the opportunity to admit that I am wrong.

Good luck. I wont be holding my breath.

 

[tieguy]

I guess now that 705 helped that guy get his job back, he's gonna be raked over the coals about something else. Tie, from where you are, this may seem understandable, to you. I suggest that you visit the safety teams from other areas, so you can get a true understanding of what is "really" going on.

and I would suggest you give it more time and don't quit so quickly if you really want to make a difference. It takes time to get safety committees moving in a positive direction sometimes years and years of time and trying to find the right mix of people.
your response was really no different then soberups's response. you were quick to condemn and run.


by the way I'm not locked to any one building I have moved around some during my career and had a chance to see quite a few different safety committees.