Pathetic Purple FPP Payout
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
They get it because they get it. Why the effort to change Fedex exemption rather that further attempts by UPS to get the same thing? I can only assume that UPS sees a threat to it's profits that they will fight against one way or another. And to say basically identical is to gloss over the differences as inconsequential. If Fedex really does move a greater percentage of volume by air and UPS by ground then labor laws will in fact affect them differently, putting a unionized Fedex at a distinct disadvantge. Therefore, those that argue for a "level playing field" are essentially making the case for maintaing the status quo although they do not realize it.
Your answer here is only partially true. First of all, you are correct in stating that while Fed Ex does in fact move most of its freight by air, that is only in the Express division. For the two parts that are incorrect to you response, may I submit the following.
First, the Fed Ex Express pilots are unionized. That's a fact. Also a fact is that they are the highest paid in the industry. Another fact, at the end of last year ole Freddy boy told them that he was going to have to retire some aircraft, cut air routes and thereby cut some of his pilots. However, instead of this, the pilots voted and agreed to a lessening of their flight hours so they could keep all of the pilots at the current levels they are at now. Now with this being said, they all could of said screw you and walked, but they didn't cause they like getting their $167,000+ per year. If they did, that could of been devastating because it would of shut down the entire Express division. What is happening here with this legislation is the fact that it will give individual stations in their home state the right to vote and choose if they want to become unionized. I am sure that there are some locations that don't and that is fine, but ALOT of places do.
Second, if Fed Ex did unionize we would have to see if it just affected the Express division or the Entire network of Fed Ex companies. Remember, FDX corporation is made up of 10 "different" operating companies. The biggest winner here though would be to the Ground division where Fed Ex has made some gains on UPS's market share and this is where "we" at Fed Ex could make a large and substantial gain. Me though, personally, I would rather see that if the Senate does approve this with the legislation in it that it would give the entire company union rights like UPS versus just individual locations. That would be huge. This individual location stuff could still greatly affect service, but not as much as the entire company. The people in Iowa could still be working happily, while half of California is shut down...either way, the majority of the operation is still going versus if EVERYONE was on strike like UPS was back in Aug 97. Bigger point to be made.
Mr. Mayor,
I agree with all your points, but I think your points still bolster my assertions. And yes, in this scenario we at Ground do stand to gain no matter what happens. In fact Mr Fedex and I have a friendly back and forth going on about the Ground contractor model and the possible implications for the company as a whole.
I agree with all your points, but I think your points still bolster my assertions. And yes, in this scenario we at Ground do stand to gain no matter what happens. In fact Mr Fedex and I have a friendly back and forth going on about the Ground contractor model and the possible implications for the company as a whole.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
UPS NDA and FedEx Express both move express pkgs primarily by air. UPS Brown and FedEx Ground move them by truck and rail most of the time. Each division does things in essentially similar ways, so why does FedEx get 2 competitive advantages when UPS gets none? The Express Carrier Exemption is a political giveaway special deal for Fred S and so is the Ground scam, which results in a 30% savings advantage for FedEx. How is either fair?
The RLA exemption is fair, it could be argued, because the structure of Express is such that probably over 90% of it's freight is moved through the air. Changing the exemption and thus the labor laws could very well put Express at a competitive disadvantage with UPS if for the next 10 years Express can't tell customers which areas and zip codes they can or can't service due to labor disputes. Therefore, as far as unionizing goes, it has to be all or nothing. The Ground "scam" is actually a legitimate business model. I would be willing to bet that the only reason UPS does not at least partially employ a similar model is because of the Union. If Fedex holds a competitive advantage because of this, it is only because UPS has agreed with an outside entity (Union) not to make use of such a business practice.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
A lot of Express pkgs are bled-off and moved by truck, especially the Standard Air product. The overnight product moves almost exclusively by air, just as it does at UPS. Please explain to me how FedEx would be at a competitive disadvantage in the air market when they move said product by identical means. UPS NDA and FedEx Priority Air are both loaded into aluminum/Lexan containers (cans or igloos) and flown all over the world by aircraft. Upon arrival, they are loaded onto roller-bed trucks and taken to sort facilities for distribution to UPS centers and FedEx stations. The ZIP code area argument is crap and you know it. Too bad if we have labor disputes. It's all part of "doing business", the same rationale we get from FedEx management, so "tough" if we go on strike and UPS gets all the business. Lesson learned for Mr. Smith. " Don't treat your employees like garbage or they'll eventually pay you back".
We can go around and around on Ground, but any business that gets away with the level of crap FedEx Ground does is asking for it from the competition. I doubt UPS is going to continue to stand idly by and let Fred keep his extremely unfair advantage. Perhaps they'll start using some of the standard FedEx tactics to get their way....money, promising communities jobs in exchange for tax breaks etc. UPS should stoop to the same level and play the dirty way. So far, they've been way too nice about it.
I think that just as soon as the FAA bill is signed into law(assuming the Express Employees Relief Act makes it out of committee and into the final bill) FedEx will set things into motion to minimize a union's impact on the company. I don't think they are going to sit on their hands waiting to see if various stations will vote it in. By the way, the E.E.R.A. will only affect regular employees of Express as far as I can tell, possibly regular employees of other divisions, but not contractors and their employees. I think a major restructuring will take place with Express becoming an overnight service only. 2 and 3 day service will go to Ground. Most likely Express employees will be used to pup all services, Ground included. To avoid paying very expensive OT fulltimers will be restricted to a max 32 hrs, less if possible. I'm guessing they get creative with delivery commitments like moving 1030 service to 1200 or having primarily business zips still 1030 while next door residential zips will go 1200. Could do that to trim work force. This is all speculation but I believe maintaining profit margins are job 1 and they will do whatever they have to protect the stock price. And then there's the nuclear option: going completely to a contractor model. They seem to be getting the upper hand in lawsuits and if it makes good business sense at some point they most likely will do that. Maybe it'll be business as usual for awhile, maybe the part-timer scenario will happen, most likely eventually will go the IC rt, maybe sooner due to the union. Before anyone starts yelling fearmongering about the union just giving a guess as to what might happen. I just don't believe they'll stop fighting the union once it gets in. And if it does I hope that I still have a job and am making about what I'm making now working mid 40hrs. The day I'm told I'll have to either buy a Ground rt or work for $12hr with no benefits I'll go drive a semi or flip burgers or something. There's no way in my opinion that we'll see $70k a year with great benefits.
Fedex could never go completely over to the contractor model and still argue they don't have complete control. Ground doesn't have on-call pups and most of the time the Ground drivers in my area pick up packages when they feel like it. I'll go to a location for a delivery and there will be a Ground package waiting to be picked up and then go back a few weeks later and the package will still be sitting there.Do you think Fedex would want the whole operation running that way? I think your right that Fedex wil always fight the union but if this bill passes then we'll have more leverage than you think. Do you think they would be fighting it so hard if they didn't think they would have to pay us a little more and treat us better?
Good points but I think they are fighting it so hard because it's very possible that UPS sized pay and benefits will bankrupt the company and kill their golden goose. I doubt in this economy that the money is there to give us everything some would like. And sometimes I get the feeling some would really like to hurt the company. Forgot where I read it but a FedEx exec said something to the effect that all services would be handled by couriers in a couple of years, or something like that. I'm betting when a customer calls for a pup, an Express employee will pup it even if it's a Ground pkg. Overnight will stay with Express, 2 and 3 day will be seperated out along with Ground at hubs and ramps to be sent to Ground stations. Possibly even Standard Overnight in some locations will go to Ground. I think Express has it's place, but to minimize the union's impact Express will be trimmed to the bone. Just speculation, but I won't be shocked if it happens.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
This is precisely what Express has been looking into for the past 18 or so months - moving volume over to Ground for delivery and only have Express deliver overnight voilume. There are a few reasons why they haven't pulled the trigger yet, the poor performance of Ground is the primary reason at this stage. Express doesn't want to alienate their customers with Ground service levels and issues. The second is the continued hope/belief that the lobbying campaign will keep Express under RLA. Your speculation is more than just speculation, it is actually right on the money as far as what the planners in Memphis are looking into.
The lobbying campaign to keep Express under the RLA has cost Express about 5 million for all of 2009. Some other thread has a link to an article for the last few months of last year which states about half that amount. The total for all of 2009 is just over 5 million. The brown bailout propaganda is part of that expense, along with lobbying fees and other public disinformation attempts - as this forum has been subjected to by various Express shills.
The latest "Doomsday" plan in Memphis should Express lose its RLA status is to attempt to go to a series of local "independent service providers". Think how DHL performed their delivery operations in the US - and how sucessful that was. They know they can't pull off the IC scam, but they want to frame it so that there is a series of separate companies (regionally based or even state by state), that are not "linked" under a common umbrella. Each "independent service provider" would be organized as a separate company, but majority owned and managed by Memphis. This would enable Memphis to maintain absolute control, but the employees of these localized companies WOULDN'T be Express employees - they'd be employees of the service provider. This would prevent nationwide unionization of the DGO workforce and if a service provider were to experience unionization, Express (that is the local service provider acting under instructions from Memphis) could play hardball, perform a lockout and hire a new workforce. These are tactics from almost 100 years ago, but they were effective then and can be again given the current work environment.
Under this scenario, the only thing of Express that would remain "Express" would be the current AGFS division. DGO would be devolved into the local service provider scheme. AGFS would easily be defended as needing to maintain classification under RLA rules, since it deals with the long distance movement of volume and is primarily focused on aircraft as a method of performing that movement. This is truly a Doomsday scenario for Express, since practically all of DGO - with virtually all salaried employees, managers and all - would be spun off into the local service providers. The salaried employees would be none too pleased, since their career prospects would be shot in the rear by this move. This is why it is still in the planning stages and not being discussed even "internally" - only leaks are getting out. It isn't just the Couriers that Express wants to "sell down the river", they're willing to sell out their true "FedEx-ers" (DGO managers) if they feel it would serve the need of FedEx Corporation. Most managers aren't too pleased with the prospect of being turned into something resembling the manager of a local FedEx Office - with the compensation that accompanies that job. So while this issue is primarily focused at the Couriers/RTDs/Mechanics, it will end up sweeping up the salaried employees in DGO with it should Express lose its RLA status. I haven't heard of any "threats" against DGO managers yet - regarding keeping their employees non-union - but if the RLA status should be lost, FedEx Corporation won't wait for a unionization vote.
So the pulling of Express' RLA status would be a Pyrrhic victory for the wage work force. It would be a victory, but it would result in Express dissolving DGO - thus making the change of labor classification meaningless. FedEx knows that if they permit unionization, Express will no longer be cost competitive with UPS and Express would rapidly lose domestic overnight volume due to the increases in labor costs. Express could become competitive, but it would mean massive restructuring of its management and support structure - along with pay cuts for the bloated staffs present in Memphis and the regional district offices.
The lobbying campaign to keep Express under the RLA has cost Express about 5 million for all of 2009. Some other thread has a link to an article for the last few months of last year which states about half that amount. The total for all of 2009 is just over 5 million. The brown bailout propaganda is part of that expense, along with lobbying fees and other public disinformation attempts - as this forum has been subjected to by various Express shills.
The latest "Doomsday" plan in Memphis should Express lose its RLA status is to attempt to go to a series of local "independent service providers". Think how DHL performed their delivery operations in the US - and how sucessful that was. They know they can't pull off the IC scam, but they want to frame it so that there is a series of separate companies (regionally based or even state by state), that are not "linked" under a common umbrella. Each "independent service provider" would be organized as a separate company, but majority owned and managed by Memphis. This would enable Memphis to maintain absolute control, but the employees of these localized companies WOULDN'T be Express employees - they'd be employees of the service provider. This would prevent nationwide unionization of the DGO workforce and if a service provider were to experience unionization, Express (that is the local service provider acting under instructions from Memphis) could play hardball, perform a lockout and hire a new workforce. These are tactics from almost 100 years ago, but they were effective then and can be again given the current work environment.
Under this scenario, the only thing of Express that would remain "Express" would be the current AGFS division. DGO would be devolved into the local service provider scheme. AGFS would easily be defended as needing to maintain classification under RLA rules, since it deals with the long distance movement of volume and is primarily focused on aircraft as a method of performing that movement. This is truly a Doomsday scenario for Express, since practically all of DGO - with virtually all salaried employees, managers and all - would be spun off into the local service providers. The salaried employees would be none too pleased, since their career prospects would be shot in the rear by this move. This is why it is still in the planning stages and not being discussed even "internally" - only leaks are getting out. It isn't just the Couriers that Express wants to "sell down the river", they're willing to sell out their true "FedEx-ers" (DGO managers) if they feel it would serve the need of FedEx Corporation. Most managers aren't too pleased with the prospect of being turned into something resembling the manager of a local FedEx Office - with the compensation that accompanies that job. So while this issue is primarily focused at the Couriers/RTDs/Mechanics, it will end up sweeping up the salaried employees in DGO with it should Express lose its RLA status. I haven't heard of any "threats" against DGO managers yet - regarding keeping their employees non-union - but if the RLA status should be lost, FedEx Corporation won't wait for a unionization vote.
So the pulling of Express' RLA status would be a Pyrrhic victory for the wage work force. It would be a victory, but it would result in Express dissolving DGO - thus making the change of labor classification meaningless. FedEx knows that if they permit unionization, Express will no longer be cost competitive with UPS and Express would rapidly lose domestic overnight volume due to the increases in labor costs. Express could become competitive, but it would mean massive restructuring of its management and support structure - along with pay cuts for the bloated staffs present in Memphis and the regional district offices.
OK, brace yourself Dano old boy, going through past posts. This should get the ball rolling on the little niceties that you've said in reference to our choice to be a courier.
Perhaps this was already answered.
I've been able to review at a high level the Fedex PP and Fedex contributes their main contribution one time per year (EOY). There is a small quarterly credit which you are talking about and yes if that is all you were give it would be a joke of historic proportions. But that isn't how it works, you should know this better since you are an employee. I'm sure they have a site that would break this all down for you, any Fortune 500 would.
I wonder if this is indicative of your overall knowledge when you come here complaining.
To others that state "You would complain about free money?". It's a pension, if it was .75% each quarter and that was it, yes losing a Traditional Pension for that would be totally and completely unacceptable and worth complaining about. It's not straight free money, it's a pension. But Portables are different then traditional, you will want to take the lump sum and you need to invest it and live off the returns along with Social and a 401, your children should be inheriting your lump sum (which makes it a great deal for your offspring). Make no mistake, the older setup is easier and better for you. Take the monthly if you live to 110, nothing to think or worry about ever.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Looks like you missed the comment about turnabout being fair play, dishing out to one particular poster what I'd been getting from one particular poster.
Context, my boy, context.
