Separate Full-Time & Part-Time Contracts - Pros / Cons

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by InsideUPS, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    I'm interested in reading your current thoughts regarding the topic of having separate full-time and part-time contracts. Some might say it would lead to further division of the rank and file. After reading posts hear on BrownCafe, I'm really not sure if that is possible especially considering the manner in which part-time employees have been so poorly represented in the past three contracts.

    I for one believe that the part-time employees have been the "pawns" in the BIG game of chess between UPS and Union negotiators. If there were separate contracts, our Union would not have anything to bargain with for the full-time employees......just sayin... Let's be honest....our Union knows the it is mainly the full-time employees that vote. In addition, the low wages and no benefits (for 1 year) for part-time employees keeps turnover high.......which in turn keeps wages...and benefits low..and the cycle continues......

    Your Thoughts....Pros....& Cons.. ?????
     
  2. LongTimeComing

    LongTimeComing Air Ops Pro

    Part timers need some attention by the company....but they, nor anyone, should expect a complete overhaul until they are better represented. It's hard to say what separate contracts would do, whether it be good or bad.

    The company says that turnover is bad because of the cost. But I would dare say that the cost to hire someone is much less than the cost they would be if they stay around for a while and begin to get their benefits. This is why I think UPS will try to ignore the PT'ers as much as possible, and the Union will follow suit due to the lack of PT participation.

    I'm afraid that PTers can only hope for baby steps each contract, at best.
     
  3. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    While your proposal has some merits, I have to disagree with it. PT'ers/FT'ers are already divided. Separate contracts (even if they expired on the same day) would further split the bargaining unit. It's unlikely PT'ers would be much more involved as it stands now and - (pardon the expression) logistically - it would be a nightmare to have a second negotiating committee running concurrently with the first for the same workforce. Also, imagine the prospect of one of these two bargaining units voting for ratification and the other rejecting their contract.

    We need to think outside the box to get PT'ers more involved but I don't think putting them in a separate bargaining unit is the way to do it. We are better off appealing to the more recently promoted FT'ers (most of the feeder drivers hired off the street in the 70's/80's I've spoken to don't seem to give a :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: about PT'ers, not a blanket statement just observation) who remember their PT paychecks and how long it took to get into a truck or a combo job.
     
  4. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Bad idea. Plus we can't get the Ptimers to participate as is when it comes to union matters.
     
  5. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    It is impossible to know the real number, but I would bet that in my center, less than 25% of the PTers vote in any union election or on any contract.
     
  6. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    No. There is strength in numbers. What is the old addage "divide and conquer".Being a part timer (15 years) and a steward Iam an advocate for the pt'ers but ca see absolutley no merit it that thinking.
     
  7. rudy5150

    rudy5150 New Member

    Bad Idea. We are one union=one contract. there already seems to be a divide between full time and part time. Full timers look down on part timers for the most part and i think alot of it is based on the pay difference. Why would we want 2 seperate contracts? It would divide us even more and give company even more loopholes.
     
  8. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    I understand the initial thought of further division amongst the rank and file however I feel that part-timers MAY become more engaged in the voting process IF we had separate contracts. (Note: Please understand that I know this would never happen...simply theoretical) I simply believe that part-time language and benefits are "bargained" away on behalf of full-time "improvements". This would be impossible in separate contract agreements.

    Theoretically, two contracts could also have different contract periods. The main negotiating tool in any agreement is the possibility of a work stoppage (strike) by bargaining unit employees. IF there were two contracts....this would essentially double the negotiating power. For example, it would take BOTH contracts to pass in order to keep the entire UPS bargaining employees working. Either of the two classifications would honor the picket lines of the other classification in the event of a strike.

    The last PRO of having two contracts is that each contract would have fewer pages....... JUST think....maybe more people would actually take the time to read the contract if it were more concise and easier to read....... ... OR........... if not two contracts... two contract books.... One for the full-time and one for the part-time? ANYTHING to get people to read, understand, and enforce the contract language...
     
  9. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    ]I understand the initial thought of further division amongst the rank and file however I feel that part-timers MAY become more engaged in the voting process IF we had separate contracts. (Note: Please understand that I know this would never happen...simply theoretical) I simply believe that part-time language and benefits are "bargained" away on behalf of full-time "improvements". This would be impossible in separate contract agreements.

    It couldn't be any easier to vote----the ballot is mailed to you----all you have to do is put an X in either the "Yes" or "No" box and then follow the directions to put the ballot in to the postage-paid return envelope and put it in a mailbox.

    You are 100% correct that PT benefits are bargained away in favor of FT improvements.


    Theoretically, two contracts could also have different contract periods. The main negotiating tool in any agreement is the possibility of a work stoppage (strike) by bargaining unit employees. IF there were two contracts....this would essentially double the negotiating power. For example, it would take BOTH contracts to pass in order to keep the entire UPS bargaining employees working. Either of the two classifications would honor the picket lines of the other classification in the event of a strike.

    It is not cheap to negotiate a contract----this is why companies and labor unions prefer longer-term contracts. Negotiating two contracts would be cost-prohibitive.

    There is no way in hell that I would honor a work stoppage by the part-timers.

    The last PRO of having two contracts is that each contract would have fewer pages....... JUST think....maybe more people would actually take the time to read the contract if it were more concise and easier to read....... ... OR........... if not two contracts... two contract books.... One for the full-time and one for the part-time? ANYTHING to get people to read, understand, and enforce the contract language...

    Would the PT contract be written in crayon? (Sorry---couldn't resist)

    You do make some good points and present them in a clear, concise manner; however, as you have already said, there is no way that either the company or union would want a separate contract for PTers and FTers as there is no need for separate contracts.
     
  10. reydluap

    reydluap Active Member

    "Would the PT contract be written in crayon? (Sorry---couldn't resist)"



    UPstate' , You made me spit up my morning coffee!! That's funny stuff right there!! Dang funny!!
     
  11. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!


    That's all we need to know!!

    Who cares what you think beyond that statement!!
     
  12. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    Honestly,

    The part timers way out number the full time. If they ever got involved they could control the outcome of every contract and there would be no need to have a separate one. I do think it would be a bad idea for two contracts.
     
  13. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    You do realize there are people with 14+ years of service as PT that want to work full time, don't you?

    Not shocked at all you would scab, either. You've already been on your knees begging for a two-tier contract as it is.
     
  14. reydluap

    reydluap Active Member

    Pied' ,

    With all due respect, I've been here since 1977. I've walked in your shoes. I do understand where you are coming from. But lets go back a few years before you even thought about going to work for UPS. When the DIAD 1 came out, the Company started the push for cheaper wages because the new technology was going to make our jobs so much easier. (HA-HA-HA!!!) UPS didn't feel like they needed to pay so much when our jobs were going to be so advanced that even a elementary school child could do it. (Not trying to be a smart a**, I actually had a Supervisor try to sell me on that idea) Hence the two tier wage was created. The true head knowledge is not needed now due to computers. Yes, we have to fix the screw-ups they cause, but they do simply a lot of our jobs.
     
  15. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    The simplification/automation of our jobs (PAS/NextGen Small Sort/etc.) isn't simply about efficiency; that's a big part of it. It's also designed to be able to break a strike. Think about it: a good preloader with 3 or 4 years under his belt that has a good relationship with the driver he loads for doesn't need an automated system. He knows every block on that driver's route. But an off-the-street scab during a strike won't know his elbow from his :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: when loading that package car. The same applies to a sorter/pick-off/etc.

    If it makes it easier for us to stomach pay cuts or other concessions because our jobs are now "simpler", then that's just icing on the cake.
     
  16. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    If my car ran on air I wouldn't have to buy gas.
     
  17. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    At this time I would like to announce my canidancy for the position of president and chief of the part timers union as long as I only have to do it part time LOL
     
  18. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    Nancy acts like the sharpest tool in the shed but he really is just a tool who is one excedrin shy of a full medicine cabinet.
     
  19. packageguy

    packageguy Well-Known Member

    part timers in my building don't like the union, go figure They feel like union never there for them, just saying
     
  20. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    It benefits us full-timers to force them into remaining on our contract. It allows us to force part-timers into taking a smaller slice of the pie while we take a larger one.

    But since most language in our contracts are specifically full-time or specifically part-time, it would make sense to divide it into 2 contracts. And it would give the active 20% of part-timers that do vote an actual voice in their own contract