Terminated For Gross Negligence

[dannyboy]

The evidence did show me not a fault

Wait a minute, that is not what it shows. It just says you did not break any laws that contributed to the accident. You plainly said, you did not see the cycle. Just because you did not see it, and the guy was speeding, does not make you not at fault.

Now, a question, did your defense include the video of the accident? You did know it was caught on tape, right?
d

 

[laurietito]

Wait a minute, that is not what it shows. It just says you did not break any laws that contributed to the accident. You plainly said, you did not see the cycle. Just because you did not see it, and the guy was speeding, does not make you not at fault.

Now, a question, did your defense include the video of the accident? You did know it was caught on tape, right?
d

Do you see the part that says driver contributing circustances under my name... it says NONE..... yes, i have a copy of the video... Why are you so obssessed with this????

 

[dannyboy]

Do you see the part that says driver contributing circustances under my name... it says NONE..... yes, i have a copy of the video... Why are you so obssessed with this????

See, thats another little tidbit that you did not mention, a live video of the accident. You knew about that, but forgot to fill in our blanks.

Why am I obsessed with this? Because they fired you. Apperently without good reason. And UPS usually does not get an independent arbitrator to go along with them without good cause. And I hate when UPS screws with an honest employee with no good reason. And somewhere, somehow the company got its way. Now, where to go from here.

What do you want the outcome to be, want your job back, want to go somewhere else to work? What is it you really want?

d

 

[laurietito]

See, thats another little tidbit that you did not mention, a live video of the accident. You knew about that, but forgot to fill in our blanks.

Why am I obsessed with this? Because they fired you. Apperently without good reason. And UPS usually does not get an independent arbitrator to go along with them without good cause. And I hate when UPS screws with an honest employee with no good reason. And somewhere, somehow the company got its way. Now, where to go from here.

What do you want the outcome to be, want your job back, want to go somewhere else to work? What is it you really want?

d

All I have ever wanted is to be treated fairly.... too late to get my job back .. arbitation is over... just wanted a way to get back at U.P.S. for not treating me like other employees with fatalities that have there job back.

 

[dannyboy]

All I have ever wanted is to be treated fairly.... too late to get my job back .. arbitation is over...

Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.

d

 

[dannyboy]

Well, after scanning the report into the computer, the files are way to big to upload here, and when you size them down, the quality goes to bad to be able to read.

Here is the policemans statement of what went on:

Narrative

Driver 1 was traveling southbound on meridian has he approached the intersection of 40th/meridian driver 1 struck vehicle 2
Witness 1 stated that driver 1’s driving pattern was irregular and he was traveling at an unsafe speed. Driver 1 was traveling south bound on meridian from 58th St where witness 1 observed him pushing the vehicles and weaving in and out of lanes in an unsafe manner. There were 2 additional witness who stopped on scene that validated witness 1 by stating that driver 1 passed both of them at a very high rate of speed and continually changed lanes while traveling south bound on meridian, doing so in a very reckless manner.

Driver 2 was attempting to cross meridian while traveling west bound on 40th. After stooping at the stop sign driver 2 began to enter the traffic lanes when he was struck by vehicle 1. Vehicle 1 was a complete total and there was a very predominant set of skid marks traveling north from the crash site
Driver 1 was in very poor condition with arrival on scene, driver 1 was incapacitated and was suffering from an extreme loss of blood on the left side of his abdomen. Driver 1 was transported to Methodist and pronounced dead atXXXby XXX. DetXXX arrived on scene for tapped statements of the witnesses and the apt complex in the NW corner of the intersection provided a surveillance video that shows the impact of the crash. All of these were submitted inside the fatal packet
Driver 2 was released on scene, both vehicles were towed to interstate with a corners hold. The parcel delivery truck was unloaded to another carrier with the packages weighed
I took photos on scene and assisting officer XX helped with the field measurement. Driver 1 was driving while suspension convictions in the last 10 years and did not have a motorcycle endorsement but was driving with a permit that will expire in three days

End of report

The UPS driver was not charged.

d

 

[dannyboy]

Several things about this report that I wonder about.

1. What the camera shows about the accident
2. IF the camera shows you and your actions right before the accident
3. What you actually said to the detective at the scene in the taped
interview


UPS has all these things, and we do not. There might be evidence in those that would greatly affect the case with UPS.

d

 

[tieguy]

Well, after scanning the report into the computer, the files are way to big to upload here, and when you size them down, the quality goes to bad to be able to read.

Here is the policemans statement of what went on:

Narrative

Driver 1 was traveling southbound on meridian has he approached the intersection of 40th/meridian driver 1 struck vehicle 2
Witness 1 stated that driver 1’s driving pattern was irregular and he was traveling at an unsafe speed. Driver 1 was traveling south bound on meridian from 58th St where witness 1 observed him pushing the vehicles and weaving in and out of lanes in an unsafe manner. There were 2 additional witness who stopped on scene that validated witness 1 by stating that driver 1 passed both of them at a very high rate of speed and continually changed lanes while traveling south bound on meridian, doing so in a very reckless manner.

Driver 2 was attempting to cross meridian while traveling west bound on 40th. After stooping at the stop sign driver 2 began to enter the traffic lanes when he was struck by vehicle 1. Vehicle 1 was a complete total and there was a very predominant set of skid marks traveling north from the crash site
Driver 1 was in very poor condition with arrival on scene, driver 1 was incapacitated and was suffering from an extreme loss of blood on the left side of his abdomen. Driver 1 was transported to Methodist and pronounced dead atXXXby XXX. DetXXX arrived on scene for tapped statements of the witnesses and the apt complex in the NW corner of the intersection provided a surveillance video that shows the impact of the crash. All of these were submitted inside the fatal packet
Driver 2 was released on scene, both vehicles were towed to interstate with a corners hold. The parcel delivery truck was unloaded to another carrier with the packages weighed
I took photos on scene and assisting officer XX helped with the field measurement. Driver 1 was driving while suspension convictions in the last 10 years and did not have a motorcycle endorsement but was driving with a permit that will expire in three days

End of report

The UPS driver was not charged.

d

L its that time. You came on here asking for help. its clear Danny is willing to help you if help is possible. He's clearly invested a lot of his time and possibly some money to investigate your case. The help is there if you really want it. Some soul searching will be required. Only you know what you were doing when you pulled out in front of that motorcycle. At this point if you're sincere about getting help then you probably should turn this into a private conversation with Dan and be totally honest with him. The public forum here will not provide you any more then a little sympathy. good luck

 

[brett636]

L its that time. You came on here asking for help. its clear Danny is willing to help you if help is possible. He's clearly invested a lot of his time and possibly some money to investigate your case. The help is there if you really want it. Some soul searching will be required. Only you know what you were doing when you pulled out in front of that motorcycle. At this point if you're sincere about getting help then you probably should turn this into a private conversation with Dan and be totally honest with him. The public forum here will not provide you any more then a little sympathy. good luck

Dead on.

This thread took a direction I could not have predicted. L, take danny's offer for help seriously and talk to him privately about it. Maybe something will come of it, maybe it won't. Atleast see if you have any good options left at this stage in the game. Goodluck!

 

[blue efficacy]

You wouldn't take the combo job because it's degrading. You know that you are insulting thousands of part time and combo workers by saying that, right?

You sound like a real loser if that's your attitude. Your contempt for other UPSers makes me sick, and I am sure this played into Management and the Union not wanting you to work for this company anymore.

A combo job still pays several dollars higher than the median wage, and is a guaranteed 40. And you threw that away because you turn up your nose at hub/preload people.

You deserve everything that happened to you. And you should be in jail for vehicular manslaughter.

 

[trickpony1]

Danny-
I got your PM.
I'm up to my ears in issues right now. I've helped as much as I can. I'm not a BA or a steward, I'm just a feeder driver with some common sense.
I can tell you, based on several situations I am aware of, that a lawsuit against the company can take 2-3 years (and the company loves it).
I wish you and laurietito the best of luck.
Let's hope there is a God.

 

[trickpony1]

ADDENDUM........

Danny-
without having read any police report or talked to anyone personally involved in this accident, how could I have guessed the cyclist was south bound on Meridian Street and the shadows created by the afternoon sun and the trees lining Meridian obscured his image?

......just lucky I guess.

 

[dannyboy]

Trick

No, not lucky, experience. And that is one of the reasons this site has so much potential, because of the vast experience and backgroung of the workforce that posts and reads here.

The only reason I wanted to talk to you is because of the 8-3 issue but from what you have posted, it sounds like a real long shot for this case.

L

Its like this.

The union represented you all the way up the line, they even got UPS to give you another job temporarily while this thing blew over. Then when it got further up the line, it was deadlocked, so the union did their sworn job by you. Cant ask for more than that.

At arbitration, you would be asking us to believe that since you are totally not at fault, an independent arbitrator ruled that you were indeed grossly negligent based solely on the evidence presented. In my experience, neither the company or the union has the power to buy one off.

So now we are left with the fallout.

I see your options as the following

1. Try to sue UPS to get your job back. This is not really much of an option as in most states you mostly give up that right when you become represented by a union. There might be some exceptions and it may vary from state to state, but that is the reason you will never see us not represented by a union, teamster or otherwise. Even if you do not belong, by default they must represent you anyway. Chances for this working......0->5%

2. Trying to sue UPS for any type of settlement. This is a long shot as well, as you had your due process all the way to the arbitration. Chances of getting any money past a few thousand (not even enough to pay your lawyer) 0->5% but if you can find a lawyer that will take the case on a contingency, go for it.

3. Sue the estate of the driver of the motorcycle. This one has more posibilities, as he was very much out of control in his driving. But be aware, they will use the same evidence against you, including that UPS fired you for gross negligence. Odds of winning any kind of settlement from them.....0-10%.

4. This angle has the best chance. The guy driving the cycle did not have the proper driving permits for the cycle. The cycle was not his, and belonged to someone else. That person (actually his insurance) is responsible for what he does on that cycle, just as if the owner was driving it. There is the possiblity that you might be successful in bringing an action against the third party and their insurance. After all, in part because of the actions of the guy on the cycle, you lost your job and you have damages. This one also will be dependent on what the video showed and your recorded statements at the scene, and the transcrips of the hearings with UPS. Chances for getting anything, 0-25%.

So, to the first post on this thread, getting even with UPS is a very large long shot. And the other options do not have great odds either. The only way I would ever proceed with any of these options is if the lawyer works for a commission, you dont pay unless they get some money. That way, 1 they are honest about your chances of geting some money and not just taking yours, 2 you are not out anything but time unless they win.

At best though, I think what you will see in any case is a thought of offsetting penalties on both parties. So while to claim to be totally innocent because you were not charged, the fact remains you very well could/should have been charged with failure to yield the right of way with what I have seen and heard.

And that brings me back to that nagging little nasty feeling I get when I think about that arbitrator ruling that you were grossly negligent. There has to be something in the other evidence that proves the grossly part.

Now, lastly I want to offer one little bit of advice. You need to see someone about the mental stress you are suffering about this accident. Please please please, go get some counseling on this death. I have seen it tear people and families appart. What happened on that day will be with you the rest of your life, and I can tell by your posts, while you are putting on your best face, you are hurting. Do it before it affects your wife and children.

There are several things I did not post on, because they really will not have a bearing on what can get done here on this site.

And as Trick mentioned, the rest of the issue needs to be delt with off site. You have my phone number, and if it costs you to call, email your phone number to me at [email protected] and I will call you on my dime.

Either way, best of luck.

d

 

[over9five]

Why are you so obssessed with this????

Geez, L you've finally found someone who has gone above and beyond to help you. Why would you ask that? TAKE HIS HELP!

 

[trickpony1]

Trick

No, not lucky, experience. And that is one of the reasons this site has so much potential, because of the vast experience and backgroung of the workforce that posts and reads here.d

You are right. This website has EXTREME potential to exchange information that would be valuable to the member but, unfortunately, a lot of time is wasted discussing the "wine and roses" issues instead of the atrocities commited by the company that so many people mistakenly believe has integrity and honesty.
I am currently talking to a member of this site that seems to be learned and experienced in the shrewd ways of the company in hopes that he can assist in an issue I am aware of. I would dearly love to let the many members of BC
know the circumstances of this issue so when it happens to them they will be better informed as to how to handle it but, alas, I fear exposure and the subsequent retaliation.

 

[atatbl]

You are right. This website has EXTREME potential to exchange information that would be valuable to the member but, unfortunately, a lot of time is wasted discussing the "wine and roses" issues instead of the atrocities commited by the company that so many people mistakenly believe has integrity and honesty.
I am currently talking to a member of this site that seems to be learned and experienced in the shrewd ways of the company in hopes that he can assist in an issue I am aware of. I would dearly love to let the many members of BC
know the circumstances of this issue so when it happens to them they will be better informed as to how to handle it but, alas, I fear exposure and the subsequent retaliation.

I am not trying to seem doubting or ridiculing. However, you make it seem as though this "situation" you speak of could very well happen to any of us. You goes as far as to imply that this situation will happen to us by using a positive future tense. This leads me to my question. If you speaking of this "situation" could lead to your exposure it would have to be specific. So specific in fact, that you could not even point to another similar "situation" to show us the "atrocities [committed]"[edited to correct spelling] by our bosses. Again, I am not trying to attack you. How can you imply this will happen to even one of us (much less all of us) if the "situation" is so specific (i.e. uncommon)?

 

[brazenbrown]

You are right. This website has EXTREME potential to exchange information that would be valuable to the member but, unfortunately, a lot of time is wasted discussing the "wine and roses" issues instead of the atrocities commited by the company that so many people mistakenly believe has integrity and honesty.
I am currently talking to a member of this site that seems to be learned and experienced in the shrewd ways of the company in hopes that he can assist in an issue I am aware of. I would dearly love to let the many members of BC
know the circumstances of this issue so when it happens to them they will be better informed as to how to handle it but, alas, I fear exposure and the subsequent retaliation.

What makes you think the rest of us want to waste our time reading only about the so called atrocities you speak of.

If you want an atrocities, UPS bashing site try and get the teamstersnet site back up and running or start your own site..You could call it LetsbashUPS.com.....

This site is so much more, wine & roses LOL !!

 

[dannyboy]

Trick

THat is one of the reasons why I am not afraid. Ive put my time in, and unless I post something wrong, or unprovable, then there is nothing they can do to me. Unless they decide to bury me next to hoffa sr?

So if you are worried about crap coming down the pike in your direction, let me know.

As for wine and roses, yeah, UPS can be a great place to work. But in some, and sometimes many areas, it is a living hell, both for hourly and front line management. And it should not have to be that way.

d

 

[tieguy]

You are right. This website has EXTREME potential to exchange information that would be valuable to the member but, unfortunately, a lot of time is wasted discussing the "wine and roses" issues instead of the atrocities commited by the company that so many people mistakenly believe has integrity and honesty.

I'm curious as to whether you have read any of the posts here when you threw in the wine and roses on this one.

Years ago I had the chance to help a friend out doing some LP work in the hub. I developed a knack for installing tiny pinhole cameras in the darnest places. I worked it pretty hard for six months and we had a lot of success. Most of the employees we took out were part time. There were full timers too and a couple of drivers. All clear theft cases caught red handed. One of the dangers I saw with the job is if not carefull you could quickly develop an outlook where you looked at every one as a thief. I have since warned others getting into the job to always guard theirselves against that outlook.

I believe you have developed an LP outlook against management. In fact I think you're obsessed with it. My experience tells me some past transgression on the part of management drives it. But its there and in my humble opinion probably eating you up.

 

[trickpony1]

I'm curious as to whether you have read any of the posts here when you threw in the wine and roses on this one.

Years ago I had the chance to help a friend out doing some LP work in the hub. I developed a knack for installing tiny pinhole cameras in the darnest places. I worked it pretty hard for six months and we had a lot of success. Most of the employees we took out were part time. There were full timers too and a couple of drivers. All clear theft cases caught red handed. One of the dangers I saw with the job is if not carefull you could quickly develop an outlook where you looked at every one as a thief. I have since warned others getting into the job to always guard theirselves against that outlook.

I believe you have developed an LP outlook against management. In fact I think you're obsessed with it. My experience tells me some past transgression on the part of management drives it. But its there and in my humble opinion probably eating you up.

I don't have this "LP outlook against management." that you speak of. For the most part, the management I have to deal with are reasonable people, some are real human beings. There are, however, certain person(s) in positions of control/responsibility that are out of control and accountable to no one. The particular one I am thinking of has 3-4 lawsuits against him/her and the company.

BUT WAIT!!! the company never does anything wrong so all these plaintiffs and their attorneys must be really stupid.

I'm sorry.....stupid me (LOL)