"The American dream" not quite so for Latinos

[I GOT ONE MORE]

Some one here once said ...... and I agree

You should not have to press 1 for English.

 

[fxdwg]

My parents were born in Europe.
Do I "Belong"?

 

[Lue C Fur]

Agree!
Now we have a very interesting dilemma. Their Counrty doesn't have "proper paperwork".
To bad, so sad. They should have thought about that before they came here illegaly. People need to take responsibility for their actions.
Wow...You seem to have anger issues.
I do have anger...im angry that my tax dollars go to freeloaders and law breakers but yet myself and others who came to America legally and follow the rules have to pay for them. That does not anger you? Do you break the rules and not pay taxes?
Your last comment suggests that ALL people have the same logic and thought process as you do.
Really? We dont have laws that are suposed to be enforced. How does my comment suggest that all people have the same logic and thought process as me. I have to follow the rules...doesent everyone else or am i the only one?
Have you ever wanted something that you had to resort to desparate measures toi obtain? (Didn't think so)
Wow!!! I did not know you new about my personal life. You could not handle the crap ive been thru but i did not break rules to get by.
We want them to be here;
Maybe you do but i dont and i bet the majority of Americans dont approve of Illegals here.
they perform tasks that most Americans think are below them.
And again if they come here legally to do those jobs that are lazy freeloaders feel are below them then thats just fine with me. I would still like to force our freeloaders here to do those jobs but im guessing the liberals would say its inhumane to force a freeloader to get off his couch and go to work. Its better that our tax dollars just keep paying them to sit on their arse.
We do? Who are you speaking for...all of America or just the leftys who want their votes? I have an idea...how about we force the Freeloaders who suck my tax money for their free healthcare, food, housing,etc, etc, etc, to do those jobs that are "below them".
I am spesaking for those that are not involved in this discussion. They do the jobs that people like you refuse to do and they do them well.
I have personal beliefs about Military and/or Other Service, but it is not up to me.
No comments here? If you are not a Vet, do you feel that you do not have a vote?
WRONG!!! 10 years active, desert storm vet.
Why not establish a system whereby the Govn't tracks; collects taxes; documents movements; etc...?
We have laws already that do that but arnt enforced. I have no problems with immigrants who enter this country legally...GET IT!!!
Give them a break. We were born here. My parents immigrated; did yours?

My grandparents came here LEGALLY and worked hard and learned ENGLISH and made a good life for my parents who taught me the meaning of hard work and education. So again i have no problem with people here legally but if your here ILLEGALLY then get the hell out.

Before even thinking of going after the illegals here though we need to fix the problem first. Lets seal the borders and enforce the laws. If you just send the illegals back home they will just come back illegaly. Its like a damn that leaks water...do you catch the water in a bucket and pitch it back over the damn or do you plug the hole in the damn instead?

 

[fxdwg]

My grandparents came here LEGALLY and worked hard and learned ENGLISH and made a good life for my parents who taught me the meaning of hard work and education. So again i have no problem with people here legally but if your here ILLEGALLY then get the hell out.

Before even thinking of going after the illegals here though we need to fix the problem first. Lets seal the borders and enforce the laws. If you just send the illegals back home they will just come back illegaly. Its like a damn that leaks water...do you catch the water in a bucket and pitch it back over the damn or do you plug the hole in the damn instead?

YAWN!

Redneck and Wannabe!
You sound like a young skin head from someplace that I don't want to visit.

I'm done with this thread because of you.

 

[Lue C Fur]

My parents were born in Europe.
Do I "Belong"?

Do you speak English...are you an American citizen or are you here LEGALLY??? The ofcourse you belong.

 

[Lue C Fur]

YAWN!

Redneck and Wannabe!
You sound like a young skin head from someplace that I don't want to visit.

I'm done with this thread because of you.

TLR....Typical Liberal Response.

 

[Babagounj]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't President Hoover round up over 100,000 illegals during the Great Depression and sent them home thus freeing up jobs for americans.
Today if someone is caught on our southern border and is not a citizen of Mexico they are processed , given a court date, and told to return for their hearing. Thus they are free to roam anywhere they wish in the USA and seldom do they return.
I say stop this nonsense.
When caught, hold them until its time to kick them out.
You should research the law that Mexico has for illegals on their southern border, first time caught 1yr in jail, second time 5yrs. And in Mexican jails you have to feed yourself.

 

[1989]

Next time Moreluck (good try) post the whole article :

Visitors from any country other than the U.S. have always needed a passport to enter Canada. On the other hand, because of a friendly border crossing agreement between Canada and the United States, Canada Border Services did not require U.S. citizens to present a passport to enter Canada. This friendly border crossing agreement used to be mutual; however, now the WHTI requires that U.S. citizens have a passport to return home. In this way, passport requirements for Canada and U.S. borders are different on paper, but, are in practice, the same. Canada will not allow a U.S. citizen into the country who does not have the proper documentation to return home.

http://gocanada.about.com/od/canadatraveloverview/qt/uscitizenborder.htm

Do they now have 24 customs? I last went to Canada in 1986, we would take a boat from the San Juan islands to Sydney and bring back some Canadian brew. We would return after 17:00 when customs closed or go on a Sunday. I would call the customs line, give them the names of the people on board and we'd be cleared.

 

[wkmac]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't President Hoover round up over 100,000 illegals during the Great Depression and sent them home thus freeing up jobs for americans.
Today if someone is caught on our southern border and is not a citizen of Mexico they are processed , given a court date, and told to return for their hearing. Thus they are free to roam anywhere they wish in the USA and seldom do they return.
I say stop this nonsense.
When caught, hold them until its time to kick them out.
You should research the law that Mexico has for illegals on their southern border, first time caught 1yr in jail, second time 5yrs. And in Mexican jails you have to feed yourself.

FDR did the same thing with 110k japanese but he put them in internment camps which the taxpayer had to pay for. But at least the "good americans" did get the jobs as well what property these japanese had at a steal or in some cases for nothing other than the energy to walk off with it. In the end, these "japs" got released and a big thank you for serving the larger purpose of the national state in it's efforts to foster fear at home in order to show how much we need the State to protect us. I'd just be a crying bowl of jello if I didn't have the great Eagle to serve and protect me!

 

[klein]

Do they now have 24 customs? I last went to Canada in 1986, we would take a boat from the San Juan islands to Sydney and bring back some Canadian brew. We would return after 17:00 when customs closed or go on a Sunday. I would call the customs line, give them the names of the people on board and we'd be cleared.

So, you seen wonderful Victoria then ! Even for me, it's like a whole new country there ! Unbelievable. It is one of the nicest places in Canada.
Things really changed after 9/11. Canada tried to fight the passport requirements big time. But Bush wouldn't back off.
Like I said, you need a passport to re-enter the USA. But, because of that new US law, Canada customs won't let you in without proper documentation for your return requirements.

I don't think Canada has 24/7 customs. They simple just close the gates entering Canada at night at the smaller crossings.
For your return back to the states.. yes, I would assume they now have 24/7 on the american side.
You can google it, I suppose.

I once drove up to Stewart / Hyder. 2 cities right at the southern border of Alaska. Hyder is in the US (Alaska), Stewart, next to it (to the east), in Canada. (located close to the Charlotte Islands, up there, but on mainland)
Nothing really seperates the 2 towns, just a sign... now entering US, and when you drive back out. Now entering Canada, if you have anything to declare, please call 1 800 .......
Yeah, right..LOL I stocked up good on cheap cigs there..LOL

btw: never seen soo many bears and wild salmon in my life before !
It's worth a drive . Loved it. The nature, wildlife, glaciers, and all.

 

[Babagounj]

ILLEGALS Protest Checkpoints that Stop them from Driving ILLEGALLY

ESCONDIDO: Protesters again call for the removal of police chief

Activists want chief to stop driver’s license checkpoints
EDWARD SIFUENTES
Critics of Escondido’s driver’s license checkpoints on Friday once again called on police Chief Jim Maher to end the crackdowns and to step down if he refuses to do so.
Police checkpoints have long been criticized by Latino activists who say they disproportionately affect their community. That is because illegal immigrants, many of whom are Latinos, are barred by state law from having driver’s licenses.
“It’s depressing, sad and humiliating,” said Enedina, an Escondido resident who joined more than 50 other people at a demonstration in front of City Hall.Carmen Miranda, a community activist and outspoken critic of the checkpoints;
said the city should remove the police chief because his use of the checkpoints alienates and frightens Latino immigrants.

 

[diesel96]

Lue....."I do have anger...im angry that my tax dollars go to freeloaders and law breakers but yet myself and others who came to America legally and follow the rules have to pay for them. That does not anger you? Do you break the rules and not pay taxes?"

Where's the anger of our tax dollars funding blowing up foreign countries and rebuilding them. Are any of those citizens contributing to our economy ? Your lame claims that illegal immigrants are costing taxpayers so much are unfounded, over blown, or somehow skewed based on how the analysis is done or what factors are often left out. Actually, undocumented immigrants have been a benefit to our economy...
Fact: Undocumented immigrants pay taxes in a number of ways, including income and sales tax. The majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes using Individual Taxpayer Numbers or false Social Security numbers... The Social Security Administration reports that it holds $420 billion from the earnings of immigrants who are not in a position to claim benefits...
Fact: Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for the vast majority of state and federal benefits and are only eligible for those that are considered important to public health and safety. Please, spare us the "Drama Queen" antics...

 

[moreluck]

For every illegal immigrant hired as a nanny, maid, gardener, meat cutter, driver or agricultural worker, the public is paying for the education and medical needs of their families, to the tune of billions of dollars.

 

[Babagounj]

let us not forget that 1/3 of our prison population is made up of illegals. How about that cost ?

 

[wkmac]

Lue....."I do have anger...im angry that my tax dollars go to freeloaders and law breakers but yet myself and others who came to America legally and follow the rules have to pay for them. That does not anger you? Do you break the rules and not pay taxes?"

Where's the anger of our tax dollars funding blowing up foreign countries and rebuilding them. Are any of those citizens contributing to our economy ?

Not a direct part of the topic but watching Washington Journal this morning on C-Span they covered an article where the US is making direct cash payments to Pakistanis as a means to pull them over to the US cause. So we're using welfare and income re-distribution to get a leg up over there? Where are the Dogs of War who "let cry" but then howl to the moon when gov't takes up the welfare and income re-distribution stick. Just a few weeks ago the US Agency for International Development (USAID) announcing what is nothing more than a large welfare payment transfer to Pakistan and yet not a peep from GI Joe and da boys. Murray Rothbard was dead on when he said "Welfare and Warfare are the health of the State" and is it not ironic that in the last century as the US built a global warfare policy, the domestic gov't control of all things economic have grown as well along side. Yet as I said, the silence against welfare (income redistribution) used for a military goal of nothing more than resource control is deafening!

OK, to the thread topic.

let us not forget that 1/3 of our prison population is made up of illegals. How about that cost ?

I'll assume by your quote above you didn't read the linked article at the thread The Fear of His-Panic because had you I'm not sure you'd have thrown out that 1/3rd figure so easily but then again, why let truth get in the way, right?

From the article at it's summation:

The evidence presented here powerfully refutes the widespread popular belief that America’s Hispanics have high crime rates. Instead, their criminality seems to fall near the center of the white national distribution, being somewhat higher than white New Englanders but somewhat lower than white Southerners. Taken as a whole, the mass of statistical evidence constitutes strong support for the “null hypothesis,” namely that Hispanics have approximately the same crime rates as whites of the same age. We must bear in mind that most Hispanics are still of very recent immigrant origins and thus are considerably poorer than the average American. There actually does exist a connection between poverty and crime, even if liberals make such a claim, and since today’s Hispanic population has roughly the same crime rate as far more affluent whites, there is every reason to expect that this crime rate will drop further as Hispanics continue to move up the economic ladder. As the American Enterprise Institute’s Douglas Besharov pointed out in an important but insufficiently noticed October 2007 New York Times column, the last decade or two have seen an extremely rapid economic advance for most of America’s Hispanic population. 10 This rise may be connected with the simultaneous and unexpectedly rapid drop in urban crime rates throughout the country.

from the March 1,2010 issue of The American Conservative entitled His-Panic

You are correct that any incarceration no matter the crime is a cost burden on the taxpayer but here's the question ignoring all other factors and looking at it purely from an economic one. You can arrest them and incarcerate with a known and likely growing cost to the taxpayer (deportation on taxpayer dime does not seem to stop them from coming back) or you can let them work and collect taxes from them. Now that is purely an economic question not taking in other issues or concerns but which is more cost effective?

For every illegal immigrant hired as a nanny, maid, gardener, meat cutter, driver or agricultural worker, the public is paying for the education and medical needs of their families, to the tune of billions of dollars.

This is true to some degree and you might also argue that they "might" displace a native born US citizen jobwise but that arguement has pros and cons too just as the "cost of billions" will. Illegals do pay taxes and therefore you have to factor in what they throw into the public pot and then balance that out to determine a net figure and whether it's in the black or red. As for the public assistance, did the illegals create the public assistance programs to begin with so they could benefit? Did they manipulate the elective process somehow to get such freebies and benefits? Who was it that elected the very people, that championed their political cause, that ran down every time the polls opened like Pavlov's dogs to vote for them in the first place? Was it the illegals? You were the ones conned in all this so don't blame the illegals because you voted to help build the system in the first place. At the very best, the illegals saw a sign that sez, "Get your Freebies Here, form a line" and in line they got but I wonder how many illegals actually try and stay as much as possible under the radar instead of dead in the bullseye?

The illegals to a degree (not convinced as great as claimed) have benefitted from a federal welfare system, often imposed as unfunded mandates at state and local levels and if you want to stop that, it's time to tell the federal gov't this is not their function and end this application of their power and our money. Going to a known drug dealer and begging for help to stop your addiction and leaving them in charge of you "Going Clean" program is not going to work. Housing, Education, Medicalcare, etc. at the very least on a collective scale should be a purely local function where adminstration costs are much lower (pure factor of scale) and the ability and incentive to meet a direct need better with the goal of completion, not continuation and exploitation, has a much better chance of being met.

If you guys think that doing the same thing over, and over and over again will garner success and, (dare I say it) "change" you are only kidding yourselves. Sure, you got Nov. 2010 coming up and you're all gitty of the prospects but changing from one pair of dirty underwear to another pair of dirty underwear is not real change and will in the end still leave you stinking and sitting in your own !

 

[klein]

I watched the Simpsons Show last night. Homer and Family went to Jerusalem, the holyland, with Flanders.
Upon arriveal at the Aiport in Israel, there was a big sign hanging there.
Welcome to the Israel Airport.
Built by American tax payers.

I sure got a laugh out of that one, but was mostly surprised the show even gets away with that kind of humor.

 

[moreluck]

Cartoons??? yeah, that's my image of you.....!!!

 

[Lue C Fur]

Lue....."I do have anger...im angry that my tax dollars go to freeloaders and law breakers but yet myself and others who came to America legally and follow the rules have to pay for them. That does not anger you? Do you break the rules and not pay taxes?"

Where's the anger of our tax dollars funding blowing up foreign countries and rebuilding them. Are any of those citizens contributing to our economy ?
Im sorry but you did not ask me so how do you know im not angry about that. You should not assume. Im sick of America being asked for help and then crapped on by the country or other countries later. I would love to see other countries step up to the plate for once and take the lead. But we also get slammed from those same countries if we dont help or help enough. You just cant win either way. Your lame claims that illegal immigrants are costing taxpayers so much are unfounded, over blown, or somehow skewed based on how the analysis is done or what factors are often left out. Actually, undocumented immigrants have been a benefit to our economy...
Fact: Undocumented immigrants pay taxes in a number of ways, including income and sales tax. The majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes using Individual Taxpayer Numbers or false Social Security numbers... The Social Security Administration reports that it holds $420 billion from the earnings of immigrants who are not in a position to claim benefits...
Fact: Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for the vast majority of state and federal benefits and are only eligible for those that are considered important to public health and safety.
Please post links to the facts you stated and i will post facts showing they cost this country tax dollars and suck us dry. You do know that many of the illegals get paid cash and go to western union and send it back home right?
Please, spare us the "Drama Queen" antics...

Please spare us your Lefty Liberal Obama Kool-aid. Oh and Peace...

 

[Pkgrunner]

Just playing devil's advocate:

Does anyone know if the Wampanoag confederation of tribes considered the Pilgrims legal or illegal immigrants?

Was the Mayflower Compact( precursor to the US Constitution) considered "legal" paperwork for permanent entry into the Wampanoag lands or is it basically an expired work visa.

I can understand why there is so much resentment and/or fear of illegal immigrants coming into this country, we sure would not want history to repeat itself would we

 

[Catatonic]

For every illegal immigrant hired as a nanny, maid, gardener, meat cutter, driver or agricultural worker, the public is paying for the education and medical needs of their families, to the tune of billions of dollars.

So which one is the problem?
If the US had not turned into a Socialist state providing all these free services, immigration would not be a problem. Immigrants would not flock to a land where there was no opportunity.