The focus on 401ks has destroyed the retirement for millions of Americans over the last generation.

[DriveInDriveOut]

Don't give me that BS. I was making $15k/yr. I was able to save up a down payment on a foreclosed house that needed significant work, qualify for a mortgage, and I still invested money in my 401k. Anyone who actually wants to invest money into their future can, but it takes sacrifices today. As of now my 401k savings are well above the norm and by the time I retire will return 2-3 times more than my pension will in income.

Your logical fallacy is anecdotal, and does not address my statement AT ALL.

The company invested in workers' pensions. With the shift to 401k they invest NOTHING. That's why I asked you if you honestly believe they took the money they were spending on pension contributions and used it to pay workers more....

do you or do you not believe that?

 

[brett636]

Your logical fallacy is anecdotal.

Anyone who is willing to make up excuses as to why they can't do something always will. Pathetic

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Anyone who is willing to make up excuses as to why they can't do something always will. Pathetic

Ignorance is pathetic.
Good luck with yours.

 

[Babagounj]

DIDO, the money the companies did not pay into pension funds all went to their favorite Democrats. How else would they stay in business ?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

DIDO, the money the companies did not pay into pension funds all went to their favorite Democrats. How else would they stay in business ?

I would hope you're just bad at humor and not stupid.

 

[bbsam]

None of those people you mentioned have anything to do with your lack of financial discipline. As someone who is self employed you have the ability to contribute to a SEP which has far higher contribution limits than our 401ks do. Take advantage of that and put away all those big bucks Fred is paying you. If anything do it so the government won't have another excuse to try to dig into my retirement savings.

My financial discipline? My future looks quite bright. Probably brighter than those with pensions. Now if you thiink that Memphis is doling out the money to me to put together such packages for my drivers...well that's jusn not something that goes into the calculation.

 

[newfie]

I click on post#12 Derail list and nothing comes up.
Has DriveInDriveOut reached his limit on derails for the year?

he's probably used up the quota for the entire web site.

 

[rickyb]

Anyone who is willing to make up excuses as to why they can't do something always will. Pathetic

the fact is were not always in control of our lives. things are beyond our control, and therefore we cant always do what we want to.

 

[rickyb]

capitalism has destroyed the retirement, and indeed entire lives for swaths of americans and people around teh world.

 

[dudebro]

Your logical fallacy is anecdotal, and does not address my statement AT ALL.

The company invested in workers' pensions. With the shift to 401k they invest NOTHING. That's why I asked you if you honestly believe they took the money they were spending on pension contributions and used it to pay workers more....

do you or do you not believe that?

The fallacy in your argument is that there are only two options - companies invest in a pension, or invest in nothing. That's now how the real world works. There are other options that can be created.

I'm sure the company would LIKE to invest nothing. That's why I think the Union has to exist to protect the employees. So why can't there be a negotiation, like, instead of a pension, the company will match x% of the workers wages in a private account like a 401(k). And after this is invested, it's OWNED by the employee.

There can't be any, hey, we're short this year, so we're just going to borrow from your retirement, wink wink, we'll put it back later. And this is what the government has done with social security, and countless companies and unions have done with their pensions.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

The fallacy in your argument is that there are only two options - companies invest in a pension, or invest in nothing. That's now how the real world works. There are other options that can be created.

I'm sure the company would LIKE to invest nothing. That's why I think the Union has to exist to protect the employees. So why can't there be a negotiation, like, instead of a pension, the company will match x% of the workers wages in a private account like a 401(k). And after this is invested, it's OWNED by the employee.

There can't be any, hey, we're short this year, so we're just going to borrow from your retirement, wink wink, we'll put it back later. And this is what the government has done with social security, and countless companies and unions have done with their pensions.

THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. That sounds like a great plan doesn't it?
That was the exact argument companies used when they switched from pensions to 401k's.

Except when the economy tanks, or when the company's profits take a hit, all of the sudden they can't match your 401k contributions. Then when the economy gets better, they still can't. It's gone forever. And now they are contributing NOTHING, and it's never coming back. Workers have been swindled by management shills like you who peddle this BS.

 

[dudebro]

Now that you've been called out on your bull you're trying to shift the conversation.

Typical management garbage.

I'll tell you what, before we continue this conversation, what is your job title with UPS?

You already know I'm in management, so I don't see what that adds to anything, but since I think I know you're a driver, OK.

I'm a project manager now in corporate. Before that, 26 years in the district. Mix of hub loader on the night sort, PT supervisor in the hub and airport, driver, FT ops supervisor in hub, package, and airport, and IE.

 

[dudebro]

THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. That sounds like a great plan doesn't it?
That was the exact argument companies used when they switched from pensions to 401k's.

Except when the economy tanks, or when the company's profits take a hit, all of the sudden they can't match your 401k contributions. Then when the economy gets better, they still can't. It's gone forever. And now they are contributing NOTHING, and it's never coming back. Workers have been swindled by management shills like you who peddle this BS.

They can't do that if it's CONTRACTUAL. When profits were down in 2009, did anyone cut your pay, reduce your benefits?
They might have liked to, but the fact is, legally, they couldn't.

So you're for having a pension instead, which gets stolen and/or mismanaged by your OWN UNION, and you rail against 401ks because a management person with cooties brought it up?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

They can't do that if it's CONTRACTUAL. When profits were down in 2009, did anyone cut your pay, reduce your benefits?
They might have liked to, but the fact is, legally, they couldn't.

So you're for having a pension instead, which gets stolen and/or mismanaged by your OWN UNION, and you rail against 401ks because a management person with cooties brought it up?

My pension pay out is not affected by the economy tanking. My 401k is. TTKU chump.

 

[brett636]

the fact is were not always in control of our lives. things are beyond our control, and therefore we cant always do what we want to.

Your statement applies to MAYBE 1 in every 100 people. What you are really arguing is that those who did nothing to prepare for retirement, and thus have nothing at retirement should get something from those of us who have. More wealth redistribution won't make these people more responsible. Only changing their understanding of how money works will help.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Sure it is, CHUMP. What do you think a pension fund invests in, chump?

Why do you think so many people are going to receive 80, or 70, or 40%, or NONE of what was promised, even if it might take a decade or two to happen, chump?

Do you make a practice of ignoring facts so you don't have to think outside your precious little bubble you've created for yourself, chump?

Except a pension has years to wait for a market correction, because it has years of workers involved. Where as your 401k can look great one day, and then when your retirement comes the economy tanks. Then you have to choose between continuing to work past when you planned to retire and wait for the market to correct, or take a loss from what you had planned.

Do you really not understand?

 

[realbrown1]

THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. That sounds like a great plan doesn't it?
That was the exact argument companies used when they switched from pensions to 401k's.

Except when the economy tanks, or when the company's profits take a hit, all of the sudden they can't match your 401k contributions. Then when the economy gets better, they still can't. It's gone forever. And now they are contributing NOTHING, and it's never coming back. Workers have been swindled by management shills like you who peddle this BS.

You act like the market tanking is a bad thing for everybody.

It's not.

It's a buying opportunity for those that want to invest.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

You act like the market tanking is a bad thing for everybody.

It's not.

It's a buying opportunity for those that want to invest.

Depends on what part of your career you are in

 

[bbsam]

Depends on what part of your career you are in

Since when has he cared about retirees?

 

[Catatonic]

My pension pay out is not affected by the economy tanking. My 401k is. TTKU chump.

Try telling that to all the UPS retirees in the Central States.
You really should rethink your statement since pension funds are liquidated too often due to market downturns.
So much in fact that the US Government pension bailout fund is in jeopardy.