The harrassment continues....questions

[cachsux]

I saw three senior drivers all fired at one time for a trumped up claim of theft by falsifying records on their miles. All of them were driving trucks that the odometers were no working or were grossly incorrect ( show ten miles for the day on a route that normally runs 50-70 miles). The number 3 driver in the center wrote his car up daily on the DVIR, informed someone in management and received instructions everyday to Est. miles. He looked back on his self recorded record of mile and used an average for his estimation. He was fired for stealing. The number 6 or 7 driver, same scenario except his est of miles just came from his memory of average miles driven. FIRED! The other guy (in the top 1/3rd of the driver roster, same thing. Two of the three got their jobs back after 4 months without back pay. So yeah, UPS is very capable of firing even higher senior drivers for made up crap.

Always involve mgmt in a situation like this. "Hey center manager, These are my estimated miles for the day for my car with the bad odometer. Do they look ok to you?" Pretty hard to fire someone when their stamp of approval is on something.

 

[UpsSuP1]

All your husband can do now is stay one step ahead of the game at all times. No screw ups, no well im sorry. If they tell him to memorize the cards then he needs to do that. It's sad that it has gotten this far. But like I said all he can do is what is asked of him, and stay ahead of the game; All he can do is ride the tide out, or quit...

 

[705red]

Wifer, i have seen first hand how management can single out an employee and beat him like he stole something on an everyday basis. The truth here is your husband needs to be better than the rest of thedrivers and be perfect 110 percent of the time while hes at ups. The company hench men have a saying " the employee has to win everytime i only have to win 1" I know others hee have heard that before!

Tell your husband to grow a set (im not trying to be mean or degrade him here) and file an article 37 management employee relations for continual harrassment of him. This will do 1 of 2 things it will piss his boss off more, or show his boss that hes a man and deserves to be treated like one. He is no longer the whipping boy for his centers management team and that he has rights to. But at least he has legal documented proff that he was being harassed after coming back to work and that the company was out for him.This can and will be used by the union in his defense at arbitration which will carry more weight than a little black book(which i would still keep writing in) to rely on the facts.

Your husband can go to work everyday miserable and scared to death or he can stand up for himself. I was in the same boat not that long ago were i had the building manager in my rear everyday abusing me, until i sttod up and now i walk in that building with respect from everyone, because i took a stand. This guy was firing everyone and then a week or month would go by and they would offer you your job back time served as a suspension with no back pay. Then he thought he had me and made up lies to terminate me, a week went bye i had my hearing and i turned down the offer of a time served suspension. Went to panel the next month and the company took a hold on my case to bleed me out of my savings. Now i could have stuck my tail between my legs and accepted it, but it was bigger than me, this was happening to my friends and fellow drivers almost on a daily basis. So long story short i turned down the companies offer 3xs to accept a suspension and i won and went back to work with my back pay and nothing on my record due to it.

Not everyone has these kind of stones and im not bragging my wife was kicking my rearend everyday for well over a month, but no one else got fired for piddly bs after that.

Stand up for what you believe in, can the company go after your husband anymore? Maybe but does he want to be a punching bag or does he want to stand up to the bully?

 

[Tony31yrs]

In 31 years I had seen management that didn't like certain drivers and knew they could get to them. It seemed to be when you had two "A type" personalities who would always butt heads. If the driver keeps aggravating the manager and the manager is out to get him, then he has to follow every rule to the letter because the manager can keep writing him up, suspending him or firing him by using any of the hundreds of rules that they want us to follow. If it is a case of extreme harrassment, go to the union or labor board to resolve it. Some personalities just clash and if he just keeps bucking the system, he will lose. If he is doing everything by the book and has nothing to hide, then the manager should lose. One other thing, don't trust anyone in management to be on your side because if it comes down to their job or yours, they will lie to save theirs.

 

[upsrwife]

Sounds like instead of posting 24/7 on BC, you need to be out looking for a job. It doesn't sound like your husband is going to have his much longer if they are that hell-bent on getting him.

that's a stupid comment. I have a job, I work midnights thank you very much.


Anyway, the Safety committee told him there isn't anything he needs to know word for word, he just needs to basically know it. We are waitng for a call from the Union to let us know what exactly the stipulations were for rehire, because they seem to be making them up as they go.

he has been studying it though and will know it by friday just to shut them up.

Tell your husband to grow a set (im not trying to be mean or degrade him here) and file an article 37 management employee relations for continual harrassment of him. This will do 1 of 2 things it will piss his boss off more, or show his boss that hes a man and deserves to be treated like one. He is no longer the whipping boy for his centers management team and that he has rights to. But at least he has legal documented proff that he was being harassed after coming back to work and that the company was out for him.This can and will be used by the union in his defense at arbitration which will carry more weight than a little black book(which i would still keep writing in) to rely on the facts.

thanks 705 AND tony, We are planning he is probably going to have to do something, just waiting for the right time and gathering info and keeping track.

 

[trplnkl]

My guess is that the drivers you mentioned had other issues with management. .... Mgmt wanted them gone.
Yeah, that all ran over allowed, around one hour a day. All had good delivery records as far as customer concerns, missed service, no excessive call ins, claims, no other apparent discipline problems.

It is not the made up crap that is at issue. It is the reason it is made up! UPS does not fire drivers just to reduce the cost of the payroll.
Oh so trumping up charges to fire someone without otherwise justifiable reason is OK? Sorry but that sounds a little bit like headhunting to me. Isn't that what you and Tie were were saying didn't go on in your war with Griff?

Actually, in the short haul, a new driver will cost you a whole lot more than a scratch senior driver will.

Here are some of the added costs - more supervision - claims - customer relations - missed pus - reduction of initial performance - accidents - other safety issues - possible damages - route or area knowledge

Well, they would be eliminating three top wage drivers, all of which ran into overtime every day, each with 7 or 8 weeks vacation and adding 3 drivers that are pretty experienced due to being pt cover drivers yet are still not to top wages and only three weeks vaca each. It may not be financially worth it but UPS is know for wasting a dollar to make a quarter. So that agruement doesn't carry alot of weight.
The one driver that didn't get his job back admitted that he was estimating his miles high.

 

[trplnkl]

Always involve mgmt in a situation like this. "Hey center manager, These are my estimated miles for the day for my car with the bad odometer. Do they look ok to you?" Pretty hard to fire someone when their stamp of approval is on something.

Well I guess you didn't read my post. I said :

The number 3 driver in the center wrote his car up daily on the DVIR, informed someone in management and received instructions everyday to Est. miles. He looked back on his self recorded record of mile and used an average for his estimation. He was fired for stealing. The number 6 or 7 driver, same scenario except his est of miles just came from his memory of average miles driven. FIRED! The other guy (in the top 1/3rd of the driver roster, same thing. With the exception that he admitted to estmating miles high and had not written up on the DVIR.

And it's kinda hard to say "Hey center manager" when the center manager has been home for two hours.

I'm sorry for highjacking the thread Wife.

 

[browninpdx]

again just memorize the cards, that would be a good start. Since everyone here has told you that maybe you should listen. Nobody is being rude, and yes you are only telling your side of the story, you have not told us what he was fired for yet. But that does not matter, just stay low for a few months and things will be fine.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

again just memorize the cards, that would be a good start. Since everyone here has told you that maybe you should listen. Nobody is being rude, and yes you are only telling your side of the story, you have not told us what he was fired for yet. But that does not matter, just stay low for a few months and things will be fine.

That is all in another thread. This thread is a continuation of the original.

 

[upsrwife]

Browninpdx, the reason he was fired was in a previous post. I helped him memorize the safety cards tonight, he already has most of it memorized. Hopefully he won't clam up from nerves. Both stewards and his safety committee friends said it was BS, nothing has to be memorized word for word. The Labor mgr is questioning him on it tomorrow morning and told him today if he didn't know it word for word by friday he would be fired again. They wrote up a 25 year driver today for not knowing it at all.

 

[filthpig]

He has no bad record with UPS. Other center manager's have told him how much they like him and what a good job he does on many occasions. He does lots of leads and until this accident, never had a driving problem. What happened 3 years ago, does still have an impact today. he has to take off for doctor appointments still at least once or twice a month and has to wear a knee brace that they don't like. recently, he had to take off 14 days for shoulder surgery. after that surgery he was back to work a week before getting fired. He takes the correct days off and when needed he took FMLA and was approved for fmla short term. the surgeries and doctor appointments are from an accident 3 years ago where he was stopped at a red light on the way to work and got hit head on by someone crossing the median picking up a cellphone. not his fault. but thanks to UPS we are paying for it.

When you mentioned "FMLA" the buzzer went off. I work with a driver who has to use FMLA for a family member's care due to disability. UPS beats this driver like a rented mule, and I know this driver does everything they can to do the job. It's just the kind of person she is. I think that UPS just doesn't want to put up with the headache of FMLA crap, so they try to run those off that use it.

 

[Griff]

Browninpdx, the reason he was fired was in a previous post. I helped him memorize the safety cards tonight, he already has most of it memorized. Hopefully he won't clam up from nerves. Both stewards and his safety committee friends said it was BS, nothing has to be memorized word for word. The Labor mgr is questioning him on it tomorrow morning and told him today if he didn't know it word for word by friday he would be fired again. They wrote up a 25 year driver today for not knowing it at all.

UPS management tries to get away with what you let them get away with. A line in the sand needs to be drawn and it is done through the grievance procedure. If your husband's local union (steward, BA, etc) hasn't instructed him to grieve any of this, he's being bamboozled. I haven't read every post in all of your threads, but if he hasn't filed a grievance over any of this...he's simply asking for what he is receiving. Frankly, he's doing himself a disservice because he isn't documenting this through the grievance procedure. If he does get fired, grievances outlining the fact he's being systematically targeted, intimidated and harassed by the company would go a long way at panel/in court. Your husband is going above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to the safety questions. Personally I refuse to even look at the cards unless I'm on the clock, I wouldn't be caught dead reading or studying them on my own time.

You never want to deal your cards to management. Don't ever tell them you plan on filing a grievance or use it as a threat, just do it. Don't ever lay the NLRB card on the table for management or your local (if they are failing to represent or you can't get any movement). I operate with the intention of never letting people know what my next move is, don't allow them to start drawing up a game-plan.

There are drivers in my building that actually got sent home because they couldn't repeat the 5 seeing habits, these are seniority drivers with bids. I pray for the day they send me home and deny me work over safety related quizzing, really I do, because I will be paid for sitting at home that day. That 25 year driver should file a grievance over that warning letter. Sounds to me like your husbands local management team operates with casual disregard to the contract and the union in general. Wish I could say this is an isolated incident and it's not like this everywhere, but I would be lying.

 

[DS]

Some center manager's become jaded with power.
I've seen some good drivers get fired,I believe,because the center manager gets all full of himself and his power,and actually believes his wisdom is leading the company in the right direction. By targeting anyone he does not like and cleansing the system,so to speak,he employs a form of "genocide",
where you get rid of the over-allowed crippled,underachievers that are holding the company back and replace them with cheaper labor.Most of us have been in upserwifes husbands shoes at least once,and it aint fun
to say the least.Most times,these guys go overboard at some point and get moved to Albuquerque.He`s gotta hang in there,like tie says ,and learn the damn saftey crap inside out.He should get vocal at pcm's and talk about saftey,throw the watermelon off the 2nd floor and tell em thats your head if you get in an accident with your bulkhead open,maybe the center manager will back off if he shows an effort .ok Ill shut up for now.

 

[Griff]

All your husband can do now is stay one step ahead of the game at all times. No screw ups, no well im sorry. If they tell him to memorize the cards then he needs to do that. It's sad that it has gotten this far. But like I said all he can do is what is asked of him, and stay ahead of the game; All he can do is ride the tide out, or quit...

Lieguy and UpsSuP1 both give the same advice, how ironic. Really bad advice too, hopefully nobody is stupid enough to follow it. We have a union in place here and we live in a country that has labor laws. What is going on here is blatant discrimination and harassment, nothing more and nothing less. Please don't cloud the truth with what your boss makes you believe, UpsSuP1. The only game he should be staying one step ahead of is the documentation game for when this goes to panel and possibly court.

 

[old brown shoe]

Sure makes ya proud to walk in the door in the morning when you know some guy with Little Big Man Syndrome is the boss. Just gotta hope his boss treats him the same way. I have had good ones and bad ones but work the same for all of them. It's so sad and hard to believe that we all work for the same company and want the same goals for it. To bad they can't put that much effort out going after the competition, they would be out of business.

 

[upsrwife]

You guys are so freakin funny sometimes. How did you know that this center manager was a little man?

I was really suprised tonight when we went over it, he really knows it quite well. of course word for word is difficult, but he is close. It's the Commentary Checklist and Space and Visibility rules they want him to memorize.
He is documenting everything that happens and is said. He thinks it's just him, I told him it happens to the best drivers and let him read your reply's. It's really sad they do this to people. I know some of you guys think i'm a budinsky, but i'm just an old school italian girl. my grandfather actually worked, in deep, for the original Teamster goons in the garment district back in the day. I don't like to put up with much crap or like when people mess with my husband for no good reason. if he was wrong, then fine, take your punishment, but in this case enough is enough. I'm just trying to collect all the advise I can and help him through it crossing his t's and dotting his i's. I can't thank you guys and gals enough.

 

[705red]

I wouldnt go over anything on my own time, and i have no problem learning what they want me to, but they will have to pay me. Our job is heard enough and alot of what they beat into our brains pays off but at the same time alot is useless, like the 10 point commentary which is just a longer version of the 5 seeing habits. They can spend money on training us on all this info but who here has actually taken the test without being given the answers by safety at the end of the video. Document all the time spend on the clock being taught this safety mumbo jumbo and see if the manager knows the answer without reading it off of a piece of paper.

 

[upsrwife]

So thismorning the steward got intouch with union higher ups and there was no stipulation that he had to memorize squat. But, the mgr called him in and he aced the Commentary Checklist (of course the mge had to ask the road supervisor if it was right and she was reading off the card) They told him they would be having him recite the Space and Visibility rules on Friday and he better know it "or else". The Union rep says "So you will be firing everyone because you don't need to know it word for word" the labor mgr. says they are doing the "3 strike rule". Then he tells my husband he will be meeting up with him later to ride with him.
So when he get in the truck my husband is going to say "since your here with me, you can help me study the Space and Visibility rules" which of course my husband does know word for word, i'm sure the labor mgr does not .

so the saga continues......................

 

[tieguy]

. Personally I refuse to even look at the cards unless I'm on the clock, I wouldn't be caught dead reading or studying them on my own time.

There are drivers in my building that actually got sent home because they couldn't repeat the 5 seeing habits, these are seniority drivers with bids. I pray for the day they send me home and deny me work over safety related quizzing, really I do, because I will be paid for sitting at home that day.

Instead of praying why not ask management to interview you and threaten you. After all the lord helps those who help theirselves.

 

[tieguy]

Lieguy and UpsSuP1 both give the same advice, how ironic. Really bad advice too, hopefully nobody is stupid enough to follow it. We have a union in place here and we live in a country that has labor laws. What is going on here is blatant discrimination and harassment, nothing more and nothing less. Please don't cloud the truth with what your boss makes you believe, UpsSuP1. The only game he should be staying one step ahead of is the documentation game for when this goes to panel and possibly court.

Interesting you speak of a country that has labor laws. You however ignore the point that the same country allows us freedom of speech?
Its ok to disagree here but not okay to tell him what he is allowed to say. You took the boss the boss a little bit far this time.