Unjust / progressive discipline

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by scooby0048, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. scooby0048

    scooby0048 This page left intentionally blank

    Can someone correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there an article in the master about unjust or unfair discipline. Something along the lines of progressive discipline steps. I know Article 17 covers suspensions and terminations but I thought there was some language about what progressive discipline was.

    Is a verbal documented warning something that was past practice or is it written somewhere. All I could find was the issuance of a warning letter as the first step. A driver got a warning letter for not honking at every stop during an observation.
  2. bleedinbrown58

    bleedinbrown58 mouth breathers...everywhere

    Verbal warnings may be past practice.
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  3. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    I'm reasonably sure that warning letter will get thrown right the :censored2: out if it gets grieved.
  4. Packmule

    Packmule Well-Known Member

    I got one of those for the same reason. Grieved it and told them my law enforcement son says it is an illegal use of the horn. Can net you a $300 fine if a homeowner complains you are disturbing the peace.
    My 9 month letter got reduced to one month.
    Our division mgr also got transferred out due to boatloads of grievances.
  5. BrownTexas

    BrownTexas Well-Known Member

    Every stop is very excessive. I could see at a residence that you will need a signature. Some areas if you honk you are just alerting people "there is something to steal over here." Just say it was a safety issue and you felt it would lead to more claims in the area if you did so. Even if your in a millionaire neighbor hood. Lol.
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  6. Mugarolla

    Mugarolla Light 'em up!

    There is progressive discipline. Warning letter, suspension, discharge. Except for cardinal sins that can go immediately to discharge. The cardinal sins are listed in Article 17.

    There are too many people at UPS that think a driver must first be given a verbal warning. There is only one exception that UPS must give a verbal warning first, before issuing a warning letter. That is attendance. They have to give you a verbal first.

    Anything else, they can issue you a warning letter for. Some are so stupid, that if grieved, they are thrown out.


    The Employer shall not discharge nor suspend any employee without

    just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged without

    first being given (1) warning letter of a complaint and also be given a

    local level hearing except for the following offenses

    (a) dishonesty;

    (b) drinking of, or under the influence of alcoholic beverage or

    narcotics during the workday pursuant to National Master Article 35;

    (c) personal possession or use of drugs, marijuana or L. S. D.

    during the workday pursuant to National Master Article 35;

    (d) serious accidents pursuant to National Master Article 18, Section 3;

    (e) the carrying of unauthorized passengers while on the job;

    (f) failure to report an accident that the driver had or should have had

    knowledge of;

    (g) an avoidable runaway accident;

    (h) failure to turn in all monies collected on that day; or,

    (i) other cardinal offenses, the Company and the Union agree that

    there are offenses where an employee may be suspended in lieu of discharge.


    With the above exceptions, no employee who is discharged or suspended

    shall suffer any loss of pay or benefits until the grievance procedure has

    been completed. The Employer liability will stop:

    (a) if the discharge is sustained;

    (b) if the Union fails to follow the procedure;

    In an effort to expedite the resolution of a discharge or suspension

    grievance filed by an employee, the Union shall make itself

    available for a hearing within ten (10) days of a request by the Employer.

    If the grievance is deadlocked at the local hearing, the Local or

    State Committee shall hear the case at the next scheduled meeting.

    If the grievance is deadlocked, the JAC shall hear the case at

    the next scheduled or special JAC.

    If the JAC does not resolve the case, it shall be submitted to

    the last step of the CRT procedure. The warning letter, as herein

    provided, shall be given to the employee with a copy of said letter

    to the appropriate local union within ten (10) days of knowledge

    of said complaint and shall not remain in effect for a period of

    more than nine (9) months from date of said warning letter.

    Discharge or suspension must be by proper written notice to the

    employee as per current practice. The proper written notice will also

    be given to the Local Union and may be transmitted electronically. Any

    employee may request an investigation of his/her discharge or suspension.

    When a customer makes a formal complaint against an employee

    and the Employer investigates and finds either merit or substance to

    the complaint, the complaint shall be reduced to writing. The complaint

    shall be discussed with the employee and the employee shall

    have the right to have a steward present. The employee shall have

    the right to respond to the complaint, in writing, and this response

    shall also become part of the employee’s official record.

    The Employer agrees that when conducting an interview with an

    employee, the Employer will not proceed with the interview after they

    have made the determination to discipline or the employee reasonably

    contemplates discipline, without the presence of a steward or alternate

    steward. At this point, the interview will not continue until the steward


    or alternate steward is present. The employee may waive representation

    by the steward or alternate steward, in writing, and a copy shall be sent

    to the local union.
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  7. Mugarolla

    Mugarolla Light 'em up!

    A warning letter is just something to wipe your :censored2: with. If you get a warning letter because you did something wrong, it is just best to take it and not do it again. The warning letter disappears in 9 months. If you grieve a warning letter, most times management gets :censored2: about it and then they start digging to try and find other stuff you did or did not do to issue more warning letters.

    They basically retaliate against you because you grieved a warning letter. It is hard to prove retaliation though. Best just to take it and let it disappear in 9 months. If you're caught again after 9 months, they have to start progressive discipline all over again. Another warning letter. They cannot go for a suspension because it is past the 9 months that a warning letter is good for.
  8. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Grieve every warning letter.
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  9. Packmule

    Packmule Well-Known Member

    also had kids playing on the sidewalk run out into the streets because they thought my honk was a come here.
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  10. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Aren't you the ice cream truck?
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  11. scooby0048

    scooby0048 This page left intentionally blank

    That's kinda what I thought too, past practice but also thought there was something in a different article (not ART17)

    In most states there is some type of law on the books about horn usage and as a former cop, I hope your son stays safe out there.
  12. retiredTxfeeder

    retiredTxfeeder cap'n crunch

    Or SWAT? lol
  13. scooby0048

    scooby0048 This page left intentionally blank

    Thanks Mug, I am aware of ART17 but I was specifically wondering about something I thought was called unjust or unfair discipline practices it was in a different article. Maybe it was a past local practice or something but I could have sworn that in the article it actually used the words "unjust / unfair discipline".
  14. scooby0048

    scooby0048 This page left intentionally blank

    We didn't use the horn on swat....flashbangs on the otherhand gave it away that we were there.
  15. In most municipalities it's illegal to honk a horn unless it's an emergencey. Tell your friend to contact the police and find out. If there is an ordinance rebutt the letter or grieve it. Whatever is the practice in your local. We don't get any grief about horns anymore because of this.
  16. scoutlover

    scoutlover Member

    I've heard this repeatedly. How do you word a grievance when the employee is caught dead to rights, like not wearing UPS socks, or has late air because they ran too much ground?
  17. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Even if you deserve the warning letter always grieve to let it be on record you disagreed with it. You will also get the ones you don't deserve and they can look at your history and if you didn't grieve then you were admitting fault on all previous warnings.
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  18. Mugarolla

    Mugarolla Light 'em up!

    None that I'm aware of. Although I am not familiar with every supplement, rider and addendum. It could be a local or regional thing. It's not in the Master or Central Region Supplement.
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Whatever ever happened to taking responsibility for one's mistakes?
  20. scoutlover

    scoutlover Member

    But what exactly are you putting in the grievance? Surely it's not just, "I disagree with this warning letter". What exactly would you write? Use getting caught not wearing UPS socks as an example. What would you say?