UPS before and after going public.

DS

Fenderbender
I am NOT a fan of UPS as a public company,I am betting many will mix the impact of being public with the impact of competitition.
Pretz,there has always been competition,the problem now is the disparity between the shareholders expectations and the reality of employee intervention.Let me explain.A driver notices that Marks work warehouse is using purolator for store to store shipments,if ups simply offered 5% less than their rate,it would show that they want your business.
There is no dedication to the company anymore ,this will eventually kill ups..
 
A

anonymous6

Guest
Quote" Now, what I HATE about being public is the shorter term thinking. We NEVER used to worry about next quarter like today. The BOD didn't overract due to short term numbers. When we were private we didn't have emergency travel bans so we could make next quarter's expectations." end quote

exactly. on the other hand we are always told to "get the Big picture"
 
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Delivered

Well-Known Member
Knowing that anything is possible... What is the reality of taking to Company Stock Private once again?? That's one of the few issues I think must hourly and local management would agree with. I doubt the boys in the ivory towers in Atlanta could care less
 

Johney

Well-Known Member
Knowing that anything is possible... What is the reality of taking to Company Stock Private once again?? That's one of the few issues I think must hourly and local management would agree with. I doubt the boys in the ivory towers in Atlanta could care less
I don't know if it can or will happen, but I thought at one time I heard rumors of it. Would it change anything? Most likely not.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Pretz,there has always been competition,the problem now is the disparity between the shareholders expectations and the reality of employee intervention.Let me explain.A driver notices that Marks work warehouse is using purolator for store to store shipments,if ups simply offered 5% less than their rate,it would show that they want your business.
There is no dedication to the company anymore ,this will eventually kill ups..

DS,

I'm not sure I fully understand you point. Please help me understand....

Are you saying that we need to discount more? Do we discount below our cost to serve?

I know that Kurt Kuehn spoke of this last year I think. He mentioned we needed to agressively price, but NOT to irrationally price.

A problem is that we have a much higher cost to serve than competitors. I know you say that the current situation will kill UPS. I also think competing on price alone will also kill UPS.

We are not in a great situation because people want free shipping and shipping is not free. This reality leads to discount products like Surepost. I'd rather that those were UPS ground packages, but the customers want a low rate, no frills product..... And competitors are willing to give it to them.

This is why I say the issue is competition....
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
I find it humorous that people here refer to "the shareholders" as some evil entity. "Shareholders" are often regular people. I own shares in a few companies. I expect them to perform a certain way. If they don't, I cut em loose. You may not agree with this philosophy, but when the economic situation is where it is, I cannot afford to let my money be dragged too far down. However, I've been shown that companies with good plans can overcome the weak sentiments of potential investors. A good balance, good fundamental product, and eventually the market will be forced to take notice of you. I just can't help but get the feeling, maybe UPS' product is lacking. Many here cry about how much our service has fallen off, but could that be helped? FedEx service is still inferior in many ways and yet companies flock to them, and the up-and+coming generation thinks they are "cooler". Why?
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
Pretz,there has always been competition,the problem now is the disparity between the shareholders expectations and the reality of employee intervention.Let me explain.A driver notices that Marks work warehouse is using purolator for store to store shipments,if ups simply offered 5% less than their rate,it would show that they want your business.
There is no dedication to the company anymore ,this will eventually kill ups..

Your right, there has been competition for a long period of time. Initially it was other couriers, then it was the delivery fleet of the stores we sought to do business with. We had competition with REA, we had and continue to have competition with the USPS. FDX came along in the early 70's and RPS (forerunner of FDX Ground) came along in the 80's (I believe), we still have a huge threat internationally in DHL, as well as TNT and other nations post office. ALso, with the push of same day delivery, the courier business will see tremendous growth over the next few years.


Let's go thru a few of the competitors.

1. Other couriers (circa 1910's) -- The company wisely knew it needed to expand and offer services in more then just one city, we knew we needed to expand and get into commercial delivery for deparment stores, this led to great growth with UPS. (Note: at this time, the way nation was, driving your stuff home from department store wasn't done as much as it is today)..

2. REA - This was the king of the hill, they had market, but they got fat, dumb and happy thinking no one could beat them at their own game. They were wrong. UPS was the fast moving competitor that beat the goliath.

3. UPS started Blue label air and then due to a poor economy and a loss in operations, dropped this service. FDX wisely created the need for a great idea, next day delivery. They practically invented the market. A market that UPS didn't see until too late. A bad decision on UPS to not to go after this market aggressively at the beginning. However, this is easy to say after the fact. Maybe it wasn't obvious earlier.

4. FDX Ground\RPS. This was the colossal error UPS made. Again, we are the king of the hills, we gave no customer rebates or reduced rates, everyone paid the same rate. Our rates were solely based on zone and weight (along with a handful of accessorials). RPS realized that picking up from a vendor that shipped 1000 pkgs, where 100 pkgs went to each of ten different stops was very profitable. They realized they could offer UPS rates less 10,20,30 or higher % off. UPS assumed this was a passing fad and they wouldn't last. This was our biggest mistake. This one is one we should have seen beforehand and fixed. We should have had a rate structure that allowed us to make a reasonable profit on all the packages. Which means, offering highly profitable accounts a discount on their rates and increasing rates for customers that were expensive to serve. If we did this, RPS wouldn't have been able to beat our pricing.

5. DHL\TNT etc.. this was mostly a matter of companies that grew and started outside of the US, not much we probably could have done at the time. Although we did look at buying DHL quite a few years ago (30+years ago).

To get to your point, we can't offer purely lower rates to win contracts, if it was solely on rates, with FDX having a vastly lower cost to serve then UPS, we would get killed on a pure rate play. We can't pay our drivers the rate they get (with benefits) and FDX pay less then half for their ground drivers. Not to mention their use of gypsy line haul drivers vs our teamster Feeder dept.

We need to show customers we want their business but at rates where we can pay our people and still make a profit.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
My mother hated when her company was taken over by a certain company. They centralized the ordering and delivering. Fedex got the contract. They couldn't wait for the deal to end, so they could go back to UPS. Never knew when they would deliver, or even if they would. That was the difference between us.
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
My mother hated when her company was taken over by a certain company. They centralized the ordering and delivering. Fedex got the contract. They couldn't wait for the deal to end, so they could go back to UPS. Never knew when they would deliver, or even if they would. That was the difference between us.
So her company had a better delivery and pickup experience by the driver which was important to the front line people. But the higher ups at her company recognized that FDX offered a lower price and gave a "similar" service in their viewpoint. Hence we lost the contract. This is a result of FDX having lower operating cost then UPS has.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
So her company had a better delivery and pickup experience by the driver which was important to the front line people. But the higher ups at her company recognized that FDX offered a lower price and gave a "similar" service in their viewpoint. Hence we lost the contract. This is a result of FDX having lower operating cost then UPS has.
Did you miss the part that they went back to UPS because service was more important than price?
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
My mother hated when her company was taken over by a certain company. They centralized the ordering and delivering. Fedex got the contract. They couldn't wait for the deal to end, so they could go back to UPS. Never knew when they would deliver, or even if they would. That was the difference between us.

So her company had a better delivery and pickup experience by the driver which was important to the front line people. But the higher ups at her company recognized that FDX offered a lower price and gave a "similar" service in their viewpoint. Hence we lost the contract. This is a result of FDX having lower operating cost then UPS has.

Did you miss the part that they went back to UPS because service was more important than price?


I missed it, because you never said it. You said "they couldn't wait for the deal to end, so they could go back to UPS". You didn't say they went back to UPS. Also, I've seen it many many times. Just because a company signs a 3 year deal with UPS (or FDX), there is language in the contract that either side can break the contract. (Note: In cases where a carrier paid upfront for prepaid rebates, computer hardware etc, their may be a penalty language in the contract). But a customer can leave whenever they want.

However, I am willing to bet that in order to get the contract signed UPS had to give a larger discount to win the contract back then they otherwise would have had to pay.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
I missed it, because you never said it. You said "they couldn't wait for the deal to end, so they could go back to UPS". You didn't say they went back to UPS. Also, I've seen it many many times. Just because a company signs a 3 year deal with UPS (or FDX), there is language in the contract that either side can break the contract. (Note: In cases where a carrier paid upfront for prepaid rebates, computer hardware etc, their may be a penalty language in the contract). But a customer can leave whenever they want.

However, I am willing to bet that in order to get the contract signed UPS had to give a larger discount to win the contract back then they otherwise would have had to pay.
My apologies. I assumed with the comment of how they couldn't wait to go back, that it was an easy inference that they did. Yes, they did. They have not gone back to Fed Ex. Based solely on service. The company had enough of the complaints from their employees by the end of the 2 year deal with Fed Ex. As far as a huge discount, I have no idea. I just know that my mother and her counterparts elsewhere were very happy to have the boys in brown back.
 
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