UPS Special Pension Buyout Offer - December 2016

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
If we could just keep on topic that would be great . This is a very important issue and any valid advice is much appreciated . My husband still has 12 yrs to go till retirement age . So this buyout can be critical to our future. We have a child with a life long medical condition so we have different planning needs . So stop the name calling and let's just stick to providing useful information.

Of course the buyout is critical to your future, because if you accept it, you'll relinquish your pension.

There's greater than 50% chance you'll outlive the life expectancy projected by the payments covered by the buyouts, and the buyout will use a discount rate that's simply not obtainable in the market (in the past two years, most companies have reported using a 7%-8% rate -- expect UPS' offer to be similar). Additionally, if you don't put the money into a qualifying retirement account (e.g. IRA), you'll owe a 10% penalty -- in addition to applicable federal, state and local taxes -- when you file next spring. Do a tax projection -- if you're in the 25% tax bracket, and live in a state (and/or city) that taxes income, it can be greater than a 40% hit. If 20% is withheld, you'll owe an additional 20% (again, your withholding is a deposit toward your tax liability). Unless you're disabled (it doesn't matter if your child is, even if you're claiming him as a dependent), you'll owe the penalty.

Large sums of cash are tempting. If you're in poor health and don't expect to live long, that's one thing. If receiving it is life-changing, that's another (but again, be aware of the tax implication). But if it's just that the money is tempting and you're trying to justify the buyout... remember that once it's gone, it's gone. UPS certainly isn't making this offer for your benefit.
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
Bagels,
You seem to type the right words as a financial SME, but do you drive a truck for a living in Upstate NY and wave around an AAS in Woodworking or Liberal Yoga? If you don't, then I appreciate your input; and although I am not directly affected by the Postcard, I enjoy the music.
Enjoy every sandwich....
 
You'll eventually pay taxes on the income, the only question is when.

- If you open an IRA and have UPS directly deposit the funds into it, no taxes will be withheld. You will pay taxes on your annual distributions, however (in other words, if you receive $20,000 and withdraw $5,000 in 2017, you'll pay taxes on $5,000).

- If UPS sends you the funds directly, 20% will be withheld for taxes. Keep in mind this is merely a deposit toward your annual tax liability, which may be greater or less than the funds withheld. So if you receive $20,000 and deposit the entire amount into your bank account, it will be considered 2016 income. Depending on what your liability for the year is, you may get some (or all) of the withholding back.

- The 10% penalty will apply. To avoid it, you'll need to include Form 5329 when you file your taxes. Keep in mind that the IRS' benchmark for disability may not be the same as Social Security's.

- For questions, seek consultation with an accountant. Keep in mind that it'll cost you a few hundred bucks, and then another few hundred bucks to complete your tax return.

- My advice is to skip the buyout. While a few extra bucks now might seem nice to pay down debt, go on a shopping spree or take a nice trip... once the money's gone, it's gone.
You'll eventually pay taxes on the income, the only question is when.

- If you open an IRA and have UPS directly deposit the funds into it, no taxes will be withheld. You will pay taxes on your annual distributions, however (in other words, if you receive $20,000 and withdraw $5,000 in 2017, you'll pay taxes on $5,000).

- If UPS sends you the funds directly, 20% will be withheld for taxes. Keep in mind this is merely a deposit toward your annual tax liability, which may be greater or less than the funds withheld. So if you receive $20,000 and deposit the entire amount into your bank account, it will be considered 2016 income. Depending on what your liability for the year is, you may get some (or all) of the withholding back.

- The 10% penalty will apply. To avoid it, you'll need to include Form 5329 when you file your taxes. Keep in mind that the IRS' benchmark for disability may not be the same as Social Security's.

- For questions, seek consultation with an accountant. Keep in mind that it'll cost you a few hundred bucks, and then another few hundred bucks to complete your tax return.

- My advice is to skip the buyout. While a few extra bucks now might seem nice to pay down debt, go on a shopping spree or take a nice trip... once the money's gone, it's gone.

You gave me a wealth of information of things that I need to be aware of. I appreciate it. Thanks, Bagel :-)
 
B
You'll eventually pay taxes on the income, the only question is when.

- If you open an IRA and have UPS directly deposit the funds into it, no taxes will be withheld. You will pay taxes on your annual distributions, however (in other words, if you receive $20,000 and withdraw $5,000 in 2017, you'll pay taxes on $5,000).

- If UPS sends you the funds directly, 20% will be withheld for taxes. Keep in mind this is merely a deposit toward your annual tax liability, which may be greater or less than the funds withheld. So if you receive $20,000 and deposit the entire amount into your bank account, it will be considered 2016 income. Depending on what your liability for the year is, you may get some (or all) of the withholding back.

- The 10% penalty will apply. To avoid it, you'll need to include Form 5329 when you file your taxes. Keep in mind that the IRS' benchmark for disability may not be the same as Social Security's.

- For questions, seek consultation with an accountant. Keep in mind that it'll cost you a few hundred bucks, and then another few hundred bucks to complete your tax return.

- My advice is to skip the buyout. While a few extra bucks now might seem nice to pay down debt, go on a shopping spree or take a nice trip... once the money's gone, it's gone.

Bagels, Can I hire you as my advisor and to do my taxes?? :-)
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Took me a while to find all of this info, but here we go. Use this website PensionBenefits, Inc. - Lump Sum Value Calculator
and enter your birth date. For benefit start date use the date you will turn 65 and Oct 1, 2016 for the determination date. You MUST use the mortality table!! Select 2016 Applicable Annuity Table with the Age Set Back as "1". Interest rate you will use is 4.98% if you are more than 20 years from 65, 4.05% if you turn 65 in the next 5-20 years and 1.68% if you turn 65 in the next 5 years. Now all you need to enter is your Monthly Benefit.
I found all of this by reading the USP Pension Plan that is filed with the SEC. This can be found at : UPS Retirement Plan, as Amended and Restated
It defines the guidlelines I listed above when calculating a pension buyout. Believe it not UPS does have a written plan when it comes to offering buyouts and it is strictly guided by the IRS. Most of UPS' criteria refers to numbers that the IRS puts out. They cannot just lowball you an offer. It is all based on how much you can earn in interest from now until you turn 65. Here's what mine calculates to: I am over 20 years until 65 and my monthly benefit will be $1600 so my buyout offer should be about $80,000.

This is inaccurate. The filing you linked to states that lump sum buyouts follow 417(e)(3)(D), this is fairly standard (because the IRS requires it). 417(e)(3)(D) sets forth the minimum present value segment rates (of which you're partially correct in listing), but the rates are blended with either treasury or corporate bond rates. Companies nearly always use corporate bond rates, since it's much more advantageous for them and less advantageous for you.
 
Took me a while to find all of this info, but here we go. Use this website PensionBenefits, Inc. - Lump Sum Value Calculator
and enter your birth date. For benefit start date use the date you will turn 65 and Oct 1, 2016 for the determination date. You MUST use the mortality table!! Select 2016 Applicable Annuity Table with the Age Set Back as "1". Interest rate you will use is 4.98% if you are more than 20 years from 65, 4.05% if you turn 65 in the next 5-20 years and 1.68% if you turn 65 in the next 5 years. Now all you need to enter is your Monthly Benefit.
I found all of this by reading the USP Pension Plan that is filed with the SEC. This can be found at : UPS Retirement Plan, as Amended and Restated
It defines the guidlelines I listed above when calculating a pension buyout. Believe it not UPS does have a written plan when it comes to offering buyouts and it is strictly guided by the IRS. Most of UPS' criteria refers to numbers that the IRS puts out. They cannot just lowball you an offer. It is all based on how much you can earn in interest from now until you turn 65. Here's what mine calculates to: I am over 20 years until 65 and my monthly benefit will be $1600 so my buyout offer should be about $80,000.


According to this method of calculation, I should be offered $15,000 on a $465/mo pension. I think I'll decline the offer.
 

Jaco Williams

Active Member
Bagels,
You seem to type the right words as a financial SME, but do you drive a truck for a living in Upstate NY and wave around an AAS in Woodworking or Liberal Yoga? If you don't, then I appreciate your input; and although I am not directly affected by the Postcard, I enjoy the music.
Enjoy every sandwich....


Nailed it...!
 

scooby0048

This page left intentionally blank
Here's a good article as to how they should figure out the lump sum
How to Calculate a Lump Sum Pension Buyout | eHow

I know you are trying to be helpful but, eHow is probably one of most useless sites out there for any good information. A good portion of the articles are written by authors with no clue concerning the subject matter, out of date information, and things that are cut and pasted from other sites.
 

UPSFinMan

New Member
This is inaccurate. The filing you linked to states that lump sum buyouts follow 417(e)(3)(D), this is fairly standard (because the IRS requires it). 417(e)(3)(D) sets forth the minimum present value segment rates (of which you're partially correct in listing), but the rates are blended with either treasury or corporate bond rates. Companies nearly always use corporate bond rates, since it's much more advantageous for them and less advantageous for you.

Actually that 4% rate is pretty close. It is a mix with treasuries and bonds.
 

UPSFinMan

New Member
Took me a while to find all of this info, but here we go. Use this website PensionBenefits, Inc. - Lump Sum Value Calculator
and enter your birth date. For benefit start date use the date you will turn 65 and Oct 1, 2016 for the determination date. You MUST use the mortality table!! Select 2016 Applicable Annuity Table with the Age Set Back as "1". Interest rate you will use is 4.98% if you are more than 20 years from 65, 4.05% if you turn 65 in the next 5-20 years and 1.68% if you turn 65 in the next 5 years. Now all you need to enter is your Monthly Benefit.
I found all of this by reading the USP Pension Plan that is filed with the SEC. This can be found at : UPS Retirement Plan, as Amended and Restated
It defines the guidlelines I listed above when calculating a pension buyout. Believe it not UPS does have a written plan when it comes to offering buyouts and it is strictly guided by the IRS. Most of UPS' criteria refers to numbers that the IRS puts out. They cannot just lowball you an offer. It is all based on how much you can earn in interest from now until you turn 65. Here's what mine calculates to: I am over 20 years until 65 and my monthly benefit will be $1600 so my buyout offer should be about $80,000.

The SEC filing looks old - could still be applicable tho.

A few posts back someone said this only applies to Part-time years (they supposedly called the 800#). If that's the case, this may be chump change.

Regardless folks, if in good health - DON'T TAKE IT
 

UPSFinMan

New Member
I project that UPS will use a 7-8% discount rate and insist that this is a "one-time" offer. But I doubt that will be the case. UPS' liabilities will increase as a result of the IRS' tables increasing the average lifespan, maintenance costs (PBGC premiums + administrative cost) will continue to swell, and interest rates will rise forcing UPS to put more money into the plan to meet its liabilities. I think it's inevitable that those who are smart enough to reject this offer will get a much sweeter one. UPS will want relief from the liability, and the present value of the next offer will be based on a larger dollar amount (given that UPS will have to account for a larger lifespan) and the discount rate will be policed (UPS won't be able to use an 8% rate when treasury rate is 2% max).

Don't see them being able to discount it with rates that high. 4% range is probably where most will see it. I guess it is possible though they could go lower to see how many they can write-off.. Discount it with a 20 year treasury rate and I may jump.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Don't see them being able to discount it with rates that high. 4% range is probably where most will see it. I guess it is possible though they could go lower to see how many they can write-off.. Discount it with a 20 year treasury rate and I may jump.
UPS used 3% "Reduction in monthly payment" per year before Full retirement age in past buyouts and also in Early retirement penalties incorporated in the calculations.
 
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