VP Debate - Sarah held her own

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Sorry to bore everybody with fact checks, but here's an equalizer to all the claims of Biden's facts, lets check Sarah's shall we?

  • Sarah Palin asserted that Joe Biden backed John McCain's military policies until this presidential race. That is flatly false. Biden was an outspoken opponent of President Bush's troop increases in Iraq as soon as Bush announced them after the 2006 elections. As Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, he led the most heated hearings before the troops were actually deployed.

  • Palin oversimplified Obama's vote to stop funding U.S. troops in Iraq. She was referring to a Senate vote on May 24, 2007, on appropriations bill funding operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama was one of 14 senators who voted against the bill on the grounds that it did not set a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Obama made clear that he was in favor of funding the troops, but could not agree to an indefinite extension of the war. The previous month, most Senate Republicans voted against a Democratic bill (supported by Obama) that linked funding of the troops to the establishment of a timeline for withdrawal. McCain missed that vote.

  • Palin repeated a standard line offered by the McCain campaign--that Obama has not admitted the "surge" of additional troops in Iraq worked. But in a September interview with Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, Obama said "the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams." Obama has not, however, retracted his opposition to the surge, and he has said political reconciliation still needs to take place in Iraq.

  • Palin was erroneous when she claimed U.S. troop levels in Iraq are now at "pre-surge" levels. When President Bush announced last month that he would withdraw an additional 8,000 U.S. troops over the coming months, he committed to leaving at least 138,000 troops in the country at the end of his presidency, 3,000 more than there were before the troop increases known now as "the surge."
  • Palin signaled early she would go after Barack Obama all night on the charge that he had voted 94 times to either raise taxes or fight against tax cuts. Factcheck.org, a non-partisan watchdog, has analyzed the charge. Of the 94, 23 of those votes were indeed votes against proposed tax cuts. Eleven of them were increases on families earning over $1 million to help fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition. And 53 were on non-binding budget resolutions that foresaw allowing tax cuts to expire as scheduled. Such out-year projections are meaningless, since non-binding budgets are passed each year. On another point, Palin said a tax hike that hits earners over $250,000 would hit "millions of small businesses." That is untrue. The vast majority of small businesses barely break even and do not pay the top tax brackets. To get that figure, Republicans count affluent taxpayers who claim some income from some small business income as "small businessmen."

  • Palin repeated John McCain's claim that Barack Obama voted to increase taxes for every American earning more than $42,000 a year. This is a considerable stretch. Obama voted for a non-binding budget resolution that laid down general budgetary guidelines based on the assumption that the Bush tax cuts will expire, as scheduled, in 2011. The budget resolution did not represent a vote to raise taxes. Obama has said that he is in favor of continuing the Bush tax cuts for all but the wealthiest Americans.
PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."
THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.

PALIN: Claimed she has taken on the oil industry as Alaska governor.
THE FACTS: Palin pushed to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and distributed the proceeds to the state's citizens to offset rising energy costs. However, she has also sided with the industry on a number of issues. She sued the Interior Department over its designation of polar bears as an endangered species. That puts her on the same side as the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry's chief trade association. She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — a position at odds with McCain.

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."
THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

Wink......Wink.......:you_go_girl:


 

mikestrek

Well-Known Member
The Debates outcome will always depend on which side your on going into it. If you are a Republican, you will see her in a cutsy, folksy new spirit.

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

This was no game saver for McCain. The country is in real trouble, and as I type this, the Republicans in the house are shooting down the "rescue bill" to the demise of all americans.

Sarah Palin FAILED to answer one question directly and forecoming. It was clear the RNC had her reading off her que cards in her hands and when she got in trouble on an answer, she kept going back to energy and alaska to try and get out of it.

For me, I had no real expectations of her to do anything more. Her one liners fell flat in my opinion. Her "Reagan" immitations were anticipated and failed in there delivery.

"There yo go again Joe"....Yawn, boring.

Senator Biden checkmated her on several issues. She looked way out of her league. Maybe in Alaska she can run with the big dogs, but even that being said, its not the National Kennel club.

She herself said that she wouldnt answer the questions the way the moderator or Joe Biden wanted and she was going to keep talking to the american public about her accomplishments in alaska.

HuH? She was there to discuss current policies and problems in america.

She kept insisting that Joe stop talking about the past (aka: the Bush failures) and stated that Joe should talk about the future like her.

HuH? aren't her accomplishments in alaska in the past?

No matter, Joe in ALL polls won this debate by over 60%.

Sarah fell short and in fact, one poll had her in the low 20's.

On CNN, they had a live audience viewing and scoring this debate from both parties as well as independents. Sarahs performance fell flat when she started rambling aimlessly over and over about the same information.

Either way, the polls have Obama ready to win this election hands down.

This debate did nothing more than prove the obvious to those looking for it on both sides.

If you want a real explanation of what was said, click this link to fact check both candidates. You will see Sarah the Baracuda was WRONG most of the time. Biden was rated off slightly but not way off base.
https://web.archive.org/web/2013120...ons-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

Couldn't have said it better.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
IMHO - It does not matter what the pundits (Karl Rove) or Olympic judges ("The Other Side", Diesel) think who won on points. As I said when I started this thread, Biden won on points; however, this is not a high school debate. I'm not sure that anyone ever wins a political debate...the other person can surely lose it, though.
The key here is what did independent voters (like me) think. The only thing that matters is votes of which all the pundits have is one each.
I don't need someone else to tell me how to interpret a debate, especially the VP debate. No one votes for the VP.

On another thread of related thought:
At this point, I am leaning to vote for McCain and the reason why has nothing to do with Palin.

My logic comes down to the simple belief that we need balance in government and we all know how badly the Republicans screwed everything up when they had the House of Representatives, Senate and the President.
If the Republicans still had control of House of Representatives and the Senate, I would vote for Obama.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Hoax,
Nothing wrong with that logic. I have heard people say before that they always vote a split ticket, so the thieves can keep an eye out for who is stealing more.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
IMHO - It does not matter what the pundits (Karl Rove) or Olympic judges ("The Other Side", Diesel) think who won on points. As I said when I started this thread, Biden won on points; however, this is not a high school debate. I'm not sure that anyone ever wins a political debate...the other person can surely lose it, though.
The key here is what did independent voters (like me) think. The only thing that matters is votes of which all the pundits have is one each.
I don't need someone else to tell me how to interpret a debate, especially the VP debate. No one votes for the VP.

On another thread of related thought:
At this point, I am leaning to vote for McCain and the reason why has nothing to do with Palin.

My logic comes down to the simple belief that we need balance in government and we all know how badly the Republicans screwed everything up when they had the House of Representatives, Senate and the President.
If the Republicans still had control of House of Representatives and the Senate, I would vote for Obama.

Hoaxster, you have every right to your humble opinion. Truthfully I was voting either Democratic or Independent no matter what this cycle.....However, besides McCain's views nearly mirroring that of GW, McCain's judgement made by selecting Gov Palin is IMO was taking a very weak, suicidal gamble that I don't consider a good quality in a president to lead us out of these very tumultuous times reguardless of who's in control of the house and senate.
 

tieguy

Banned
The Debates outcome will always depend on which side your on going into it. If you are a Republican, you will see her in a cutsy, folksy new spirit.

Don't know about the cutsy, folksy did see someone who handled her role very well.

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

Then why would they vote for Obama?
 

PopCan

Active Member
She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — a position at odds with McCain.

I think that one is more siding with Alaskans than with the oil companies. Most of us, Democrats and Republicans, support opening up ANWR.
 

pretender

Well-Known Member
The Debates outcome will always depend on which side your on going into it. If you are a Republican, you will see her in a cutsy, folksy new spirit.

Don't know about the cutsy, folksy did see someone who handled her role very well.

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

Then why would they vote for Obama?

BINGO!! And he is on TOP of the ticket...
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Its great to see the McCain / Palin supporters clinging to hope!

I don't understand the rational about sarah holding her own, considering she never answered a question directly, was wrong when reading "facts" off a que card, looked completely outclassed by Joe Biden when it came to knowledge and sounded silly when she tried to "impersonate" Ronald Reagan?

Take a look at ALL the polls since the debate, and pay close attention to the WIDER gap for Barack Obama, it will show you that the performance of Sarah Palin has hurt McCain even further than himself.

Todays poll numbers:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Looks like the love affair for Sarah Palin has faded!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I think that one is more siding with Alaskans than with the oil companies. Most of us, Democrats and Republicans, support opening up ANWR.

The people were also overwhelmingly against the economic bailout and you see where that got us.

You have to really begin to ask yourself, the people are for balanced budgets, modest if not slightly limited gov't, energy independence or at least less reliant on the rest of the world and working towards complete independence, fair and good immigration policy that welcomes in the spirit of Lady Liberty but at the same time doesn't destroy the fabric and traditional goodness that this country has. Quality education that is based on local control and not nationalized being subject to political gimmicks that don't work. A fair and just market place where all have equal opportunity and freedom to bring the best ideas to the consumer, not just ideas of those who have the best political connections. And I could name more but here's the real question folks need to ask themselves, if we are so overwhelmingly in favor of many of these things then why is it that Washington DC in effect give us just the opposite no matter who's calling the shots? The other major question and maybe the most important is, who is Washington lintening too because the bailout package made it glaringly obvious, it's not the American Voter!
 

tieguy

Banned
Warning to Brownshark, don't take offense at the fun I'm about to have. It's Friday man, what can I say.
:wink2: BTW: Welcome back unless you really aren't BS and just another figment of BC redstate conspiracies.
LOL!!!

OK, now to the point.


Brownshark!

I thought he was banned from the forum? (0pps BS I don't know your gender so he/she) I was under the impression that once banned you were prevented from coming back.

(OK thinking to myself here)
If BS can come back and all is forgiven, that means...................

Hey Susie, it's cool now, the cost is clear so come on back!!!!!!!!!! You to Sloth!


:rofl:

Susie did try to come back as GlenBurnie. Did you notice her aggressive in your face style and her reference to living in Arizona? She stepped in swinging without so much as a warm up.:happy-very:
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
The people were also overwhelmingly against the economic bailout and you see where that got us.

That is the hard part of being a responsible politician. I really don't know if this was the right thing to do but at least they did what they felt had to be done...knowing it was going to be unpopular.
 

tieguy

Banned
That is the hard part of being a responsible politician. I really don't know if this was the right thing to do but at least they did what they felt had to be done...knowing it was going to be unpopular.

Agreed. Utlimately we pay them to do what they think is right for the overall good. If we expect them to always vote the polls then there really is no reason to elect them. Simply vote on your solutions.
 
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