What Caused the Financial Meltdown?

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I apologize for the generality. If you can forgive that, then I would be grateful. I was just pointing out that as a whole the market reacts emotionally as most females do. I did not in any way mean any harm. Again I apologize.

This is right out of a Hollywood sitcom! You say it - apologize for it - rationalize it and stick your foot in your mouth again!

Classic!!! Don't get me wrong... we know you did not mean anything by it.... But it still is funny!!!!
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Both sides are to blame. The Republican Congress pushed through a bill in 1999 that gutted the Glass-Steagal Act of 1933 and Clinton the Democrat signed it. The deregulation that transpired since has permitted the "boys" on wall street to go wild.

Just thought you might like to know who in congress has been pushing deregulation at fannie and freddie. Pay attention at the end to Clinton in his own words.


Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
How did we really get here?


The Democrats and Obama caused the financial crisis of 08 by supporting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and covering up their bad books.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
How did we really get here?

Well I liked Fux News (sorry but I like that one :wink2:) giving us their version of the other side trying to find a chair before the music stops but the real root of the problem goes a bit deeper. As the good question above poses, the root origin can be found here
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode12/usc_sup_01_12_10_3.html
and a start would be to repeal all legal tender laws in the US. Do that instead of this so-called bailout nonsense!

From July 2003'
http://www.fame.org/HTM/Ron%20Paul%20Introduces%20HR2779%20The%20Honest%20Money%20Act%20-%20REPEAL%20OF%20LEGAL%20TENDER%20LAWS.htm

From Friday 9/26/08 and the effect of repealing the legal tender laws
http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/09/27/rep-ron-paul-6/

AUDIT THE FED!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
September 28, 2008

Wall Street funds the political machine

Posted by James Ostrowski at September 28, 2008 08:25 AM

One of the many reasons for opposing a bailout of Wall Street is that we would be bailing out the financiers of the political class. Let me bring the point home. My local congressmen, Brian Higgins, said he favors the bailout because he spoke with "local bankers."
I'm not privy to which bankers but the most powerful man in Buffalo and the biggest donor is Robert Wilmers, president of M & T Bank. He is heavy donor to Brian Higgins.
Here is Wilmers pushing the bailout.
The best quotes:
"It’s not the bank’s fault that people borrowed money they can’t pay back."
"If they’ve got $100,000 in any one bank, there’s no reason to be concerned, because that’s guaranteed by the U. S. government."
And who guarantees the U. S. Government, Bob?


http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023163.html
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Well I liked Fux News (sorry but I like that one :wink2:) giving us their version of the other side trying to find a chair before the music stops but the real root of the problem goes a bit deeper. !


I posted that and I think you know in response to some on here saying that we are facing this problem because the republicans in Congress wanted less regulation. I thought we should listen to the members of Congress in their own words talk about these problems. BTW, I still think we are facing this problem because the government decided to get in the mortgage business in the first place.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
September 28, 2008

Wall Street funds the political machine

Posted by James Ostrowski at September 28, 2008 08:25 AM

One of the many reasons for opposing a bailout of Wall Street is that we would be bailing out the financiers of the political class. Let me bring the point home. My local congressmen, Brian Higgins, said he favors the bailout because he spoke with "local bankers."
I'm not privy to which bankers but the most powerful man in Buffalo and the biggest donor is Robert Wilmers, president of M & T Bank. He is heavy donor to Brian Higgins.
Here is Wilmers pushing the bailout.
The best quotes:
"It’s not the bank’s fault that people borrowed money they can’t pay back."
"If they’ve got $100,000 in any one bank, there’s no reason to be concerned, because that’s guaranteed by the U. S. government."
And who guarantees the U. S. Government, Bob?


http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023163.html


It is the banks fault for giving shady loans and reaping the commisions with sweet talk. The were living like fat hogs let them lay in their crap. Don't bail them out and let them scrimp and scrape like the rest of us. Go and work on the dock for an honest living instead of ripping people off and then getting bailed out by the taxpayer! The hell with them.........Crooked basterds......:angry: They will do this again and story will repeat itself!

The already reaped a major harvest.......
 

JustTired

free at last.......
I seen a report where Sec. Paulsen is worth over $500 million. My questions are: Where does he have that money invested? and Do you think that he might have a little incentive to see this "bailout" happen?

Wouldn't it be better to have an economist (or economics professor) as Secretary of Treasury as opposed to a former CEO? Just more proof of corporate America intertwined with government.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I seen a report where Sec. Paulsen is worth over $500 million. My questions are: Where does he have that money invested? and Do you think that he might have a little incentive to see this "bailout" happen?

Wouldn't it be better to have an economist (or economics professor) as Secretary of Treasury as opposed to a former CEO? Just more proof of corporate America intertwined with government.

JustTired,

You raise a good point about Paulsen's background. Both he and Robert Rubin (partial Clinton era Sec. of Treasury) have ties to Goldman Sachs and Rubin I believe is present head of Citigroup which this morning was announced they are buying up Wachovia Banking Operations. A few weeks ago I read that it's estimated when this all washes out, about 10 banks or less will control over 80% of the banking business in America. And all of this under anti-trust laws and regulation. Look who writes the regulations. As much as many want to think this, it's not a failure of the system, it's the direct affect of man's nature when he begins to consolidate and concentrate power. We don't consider that approach flawed to begin with just because of man's nature. But all that aside.

What is the purpose of the Secretary of the Treasury? Consider the 1792' Act that created the Dept. of Treasury and thus the position and what the duties of the Secretary were at the time.
Direct for the US Treasury Website: http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/history/act-congress.shtml

Now just a quick overview, seems like a pretty good accountant could for the most part do that job. Other than some mismanagement of funds, not much for someone looking to corner the market would have to work with. Also at the above link read carefully Sec. 8 in light of not only Paulsen's resume but also his actions.

Now compare that to today's Dept. of Treasury and it's mission:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/duties/
Under Organization, read some of it's diverse functions today compared 1792'. Obviously a few more jobs but overall seems still within the basic framework.

Now let's look a the Sec. position itself and again from the US Treasury Dept, Website.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/duties/treas/sec-treasury.shtml

Pretty powerful authority and even on global scale. Not only lead dog of President's Economic Policy Council but consider these in light of global business concerns.

U.S. Governor of the International Monetary Fund, the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the Inter-American Development Bank, the Asian Development Bank, and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

Your an American company wanting to expand globally and want to do so in a means least costly to the bottomline, which version of the Sec. of Treasury would you want, the 1792' model or the 2008' model? You are an American bank or investment firm who has taken part in terrible business practices leaving you holding a large amount of very bad investments. You need somewhere to park these bad investments in order to clear your balance sheets and continue bidness as usual. Which model of Sec. would you want to have in office?

Now does all this sound like it fits within the framework of the original intent of the Act that created the dept. and position? If you were wealthy and powerful and wanted to manipulate markets not for the betterment of the nation and people but rather for yourself or even groups of folks who share a similar ideal, which Sec. of the Treasury would you want in power?
Having this later version of the Sec. of Treasury, would you want truly free market capitialism where any person rich or poor, big or small could take an idea into the market place and make their mark? Would you want this latest version that allows you to bring a poor product to the market place and once those ill effects are discovered, hide with immunity under the cover of the protection of being a Corporation and thus a fiction that can be as easily erased as it was created or go back to the intent of the 1700's free market when there was no means to escape person liability, no hidden curtain to hide behind if you wronged the market place?

The first model with very limited authority or the 2nd one with vast authority who can shape economic policy that can break some and make other's winners of life's lottery as some like to say. In to many cases, it's not about how good the product or service is but rather how well it morph's into current public policy of the gov't itself.

Think About It!

Audit the Fed!
 

jugbutt2

Member
Aside from the goofiness with the anon posting - after 30 years at UPS, I am now a realtor, so I have seen some of the problem up close, and pretty much everyone who has posted has been pretty close, if not right on the money. There is enough blame to go around for Clinton, Bush, and some very greedy people at the top of large organizations who have made some very incredibly boneheaded business decisions. People who are very intelligent, very educated, and know better than the way they have conducted themselves.

Since I went into the real estate business in August, 2003, I have seen a lot of people get loans for homes that they never should have gotten. And yes, I have seen some loan officers and mortgage companies do things that they had to know were going to be a problem later. Shame on 'em! Seems everybody is too busy chasing a dollar to stop and think about doing the right thing.

Don't get me wrong, I like to get my share of the business, and I do pretty well at it. But, thanks to 30 years at UPS, I am not going to go hungry, so maybe I have a certain luxury that others may not have. If someone insists on going after a house they can not afford, and will not listen to reason, I have absolutely no problem letting them go to some other realtor. I'd rather do that now, and be able to look myself in the eyes in the mirror when I shave in the morning, than know I put a family into a spot where they are going to lose their home later on.

What 1989 said about the 125% is a big problem. I have seen self-employed people get loans without even proving fully their income. And I agree with wkmac that government should have made cuts to insure fiscal responsibility. But since they are not going to do the right thing due to their own pandering for votes, we will most likely feel the brunt in our taxes.

Sorry for the rambling, but just had to throw my 2 cents worth in.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Very historic day today... We still have a couple of hours before the market closes but to see the DJI drop over 718 points is scary.

Since 2003, I have leveraged my assets for investment purposes and never had to worry about tight money. Of course, I always left myself an out if necessary so that I would NEVER lose my home.

My mindset now is to protect my assets and not continue to invest my assets into any type of non FDIC insured financial instrument.

Without Main St. (me & you) investment - Main St. will continue to suffer. The money is drying up out there. Banks are keeping their money close to the vest.

As I am typing this, the "bail out" bill has failed - I hope there is someone upstairs guiding us! This is the defining moment in this election only time will tell us how it plays out!

The Republicans are already blaming a partisan speech on Pelosi right before the vote as to why this bill failed.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Very historic day today... We still have a couple of hours before the market closes but to see the DJI drop over 718 points is scary.

Since 2003, I have leveraged my assets for investment purposes and never had to worry about tight money. Of course, I always left myself an out if necessary so that I would NEVER lose my home.

My mindset now is to protect my assets and not continue to invest my assets into any type of non FDIC insured financial instrument.

Without Main St. (me & you) investment - Main St. will continue to suffer. The money is drying up out there. Banks are keeping their money close to the vest.

As I am typing this, the "bail out" bill has failed - I hope there is someone upstairs guiding us! This is the defining moment in this election only time will tell us how it plays out!

The Republicans are already blaming a partisan speech on Pelosi right before the vote as to why this bill failed.


I listened to the news conference by the Republican leadership. What they said really does not make sense. If all the Dimocrats would have voted for this bill it would have easily passed. I find it hard to believe that it failed because of a speech no matter how goofy it was.

Look guys this is not the end of the world the Dow is only down about 5% as I type this. Our markets have survived much worse.
 
Top