What is your opinion of not having 3 point seat belts

[dilligaf]

"Attitude is a reflection of leadership" was just one of many memorable lines from "Remember the Titans". Great movie.

Loved that movie!

 

[chuchu]

Cars built before 1962 didn't necessarily have seat belts installed. If you had one of these vehicles, you had to have it retrofitted before you had them inspected, again. UPS should be subject to something similar. UPS is the one spouting safety. UPS shouldn't have to be prompted to make sure the top asset is safe.

Like the mechanic said...The company will not change OEM specs without someone else taking the liability for the results.

Our mechanic said the reason the lap belts haven't been changed was because UPS would be liable if something adverse happened different from what the outcome would have been if the lap belt was used. Liability, not the law of averages is the topic of this "reasoning" by UPS management.

P.S./ They don't drive the trucks on a regular basis....why should they care after their 30 day driver "life span"? You don't need a seat belt to play solitare in the office.

 

[kingOFchester]

Like the mechanic said...The company will not change OEM specs without someone else taking the liability for the results.

Our mechanic said the reason the lap belts haven't been changed was because UPS would be liable if something adverse happened different from what the outcome would have been if the lap belt was used. Liability, not the law of averages is the topic of this "reasoning" by UPS management.

P.S./ They don't drive the trucks on a regular basis....why should they care after their 30 day driver "life span"? You don't need a seat belt to play solitare in the office.

This may be what the higher ups say but the law of averages say other wise. Chances are far greater that not having a 3 point contact seat belt will cause death or serious injury rather then a retrofit seat belt causing death or serious injury.

 

[Bubblehead]

Like the mechanic said...The company will not change OEM specs without someone else taking the liability for the results.

Our mechanic said the reason the lap belts haven't been changed was because UPS would be liable if something adverse happened different from what the outcome would have been if the lap belt was used. Liability, not the law of averages is the topic of this "reasoning" by UPS management.

P.S./ They don't drive the trucks on a regular basis....why should they care after their 30 day driver "life span"? You don't need a seat belt to play solitare in the office.

This excuse is a cop out; nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Bubblehead]

This may be what the higher ups say but the law of averages say other wise. Chances are far greater that not having a 3 point contact seat belt will cause death or serious injury rather then a retrofit seat belt causing death or serious injury.

Unfortunately it won't be until somebody dies and the company is sued before the obvious solution becomes company policy.

 

[menotyou]

The lawmakers involved should be strung up. This is why I hate lobbyists.

 

[browntruckmechanic]

The one thing everyone is forgetting about is that within the next 5 yrs all of these single lap seat belt pkg cars will be gone. All the high step GMC's are ADA's for this year leaving on the high step Internationals in the fleet and those are 2014 ada canidates. So there is no way the company is going to ask the manufacture of the package car to design and submit to DOT a modification for 3 point seat belts. The cost of such a modification on these old pkg cars would mean that the company would hold on to the cars for an additiional 5-8 yres to recoup the money. It boils down to this new cars w/warranty for 3yrs and 36000 miles or keep the old cars around and continue to wear out your knees and ankles. What would you perfer?

 

[Integrity]

The one thing everyone is forgetting about is that within the next 5 yrs all of these single lap seat belt pkg cars will be gone. All the high step GMC's are ADA's for this year leaving on the high step Internationals in the fleet and those are 2014 ada canidates. So there is no way the company is going to ask the manufacture of the package car to design and submit to DOT a modification for 3 point seat belts. The cost of such a modification on these old pkg cars would mean that the company would hold on to the cars for an additiional 5-8 yres to recoup the money. It boils down to this new cars w/warranty for 3yrs and 36000 miles or keep the old cars around and continue to wear out your knees and ankles. What would you perfer?

browntruckmechanic,

I could be wrong but I do believe you are way over complicating this simple change in accessory.

I have reviewed this situation and have consulted long time fleet mechanics and their opinion is the same as mine.

Changing from lap belt only to 3 point seat belt will involve little to no modification to vehicle.

I would not buy into the idea that this is a complex change that opens the company up to any major increased liability.

The cost of these types of seat belts and the ease in which they can be installed makes the failure to immediately require the change a disgrace.

Stepvan Catalog

Sincerely,
I

 

[rod]

Been telling a certain Really Old Driver that for years.

Retired Old Driver would be more like it and jelousy will get you no where.

 

[browntruckmechanic]

Ok to simplify this for the average individual to understand. 1 Any motor vehicle sold in the U.S must pass minimal DOT standards. 2. If a manufacture decides to modify the vehicle in any way that is different from the original design, said design must be approved by DOT, this includes any recalls or tsb's. especially any safety device. 3. Although the design may be a simple fix, the process of getting the design approved by DOT is rather lengthly affair due to how efficent the Govt is. 4. If a manufacture does redisign something than that would open the manufacture up to law suites from all parties involved ie... individuals, companies that purchased the car soforth. 5. As a DOT mechanic if I or any other mechanic modifies the vehicle that is not authorized by DOT and a accident happens that involves a death that I am held accountable for any and all libility in the accident to include fines and jail if so ordered by the courts, and the company would be held liable also. SO to put it simply I am not willing to give up my freedom to see my wife and to watch my kids go up.

 

[menotyou]

No one expects YOU to take it upon yourself.

 

[over9five]

SO to put it simply I am not willing to give up my freedom to see my wife and to watch my kids go up.

Understood. But some of us are driving package cars that could kill us, preventing us from seeing our wives and watching our kids grow up.

 

[Integrity]

Ok to simplify this for the average individual to understand. 1 Any motor vehicle sold in the U.S must pass minimal DOT standards. 2. If a manufacture decides to modify the vehicle in any way that is different from the original design, said design must be approved by DOT, this includes any recalls or tsb's. especially any safety device. 3. Although the design may be a simple fix, the process of getting the design approved by DOT is rather lengthly affair due to how efficent the Govt is. 4. If a manufacture does redisign something than that would open the manufacture up to law suites from all parties involved ie... individuals, companies that purchased the car soforth. 5. As a DOT mechanic if I or any other mechanic modifies the vehicle that is not authorized by DOT and a accident happens that involves a death that I am held accountable for any and all libility in the accident to include fines and jail if so ordered by the courts, and the company would be held liable also. SO to put it simply I am not willing to give up my freedom to see my wife and to watch my kids go up.

browntruckmechanic,

Can you please cite the reference to this process, perhaps a link? I could not find these procedures for change that you are referencing.

It would seem to me that there would some flexibility when minor changes have to be made .

I did find some information on retrofitting shoulder harnesses into small aircraft and from a quick read it seems less stringent than you are suggesting.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf

A truly great company would recognize the following fact: a properly installed retrofit 3 point seat belt installation is a safety improvement over occupant restraint by lap belt alone.

Having recognized this, a truly great company would look and agressively seek to make this retrofit happen. Not look for reasons not to do it.

I think the fear of increased liability is a disingenuous excuse.

Sincerely,
I

 

[browntruckmechanic]

Try 49CFR Chaper 3 325-399.

 

[Catatonic]

Ok to simplify this for the average individual to understand. 1 Any motor vehicle sold in the U.S must pass minimal DOT standards. 2. If a manufacture decides to modify the vehicle in any way that is different from the original design, said design must be approved by DOT, this includes any recalls or tsb's. especially any safety device. 3. Although the design may be a simple fix, the process of getting the design approved by DOT is rather lengthly affair due to how efficent the Govt is. 4. If a manufacture does redisign something than that would open the manufacture up to law suites from all parties involved ie... individuals, companies that purchased the car soforth. 5. As a DOT mechanic if I or any other mechanic modifies the vehicle that is not authorized by DOT and a accident happens that involves a death that I am held accountable for any and all libility in the accident to include fines and jail if so ordered by the courts, and the company would be held liable also. SO to put it simply I am not willing to give up my freedom to see my wife and to watch my kids go up.

LoGic does not miXING well with EmoTions. Be pRepared for an oNSLAUGHt. You are a GREEDy uncaring Bastard.

 

[FracusBrown]

Anyone who believes there is not significant liability exposure doesn't understand the US legal system. We live in a world where McDonald's is sued for a customer spilling hot coffee. If you think some greedy lawyer and a money hungry "victim" wont sue the first time an injury occurs in a vehicle with a modified seat belt, you might be interested in some ocean front Arizona property.

As it stands, if you crash the vehicle and get hurt, its your fault. If someone else runs into to you and you get hurt its their fault. The company's liability is minimal as they meet the standard required by law which is the standard all manufacturers are held to.

 

[browntruckmechanic]

Sorry I didn't get to fully reply earlier, had to get ready to go to work. You can also go to the www.nhtsa.gov.

 

[brownmonster]

Anyone who believes there is not significant liability exposure doesn't understand the US legal system. We live in a world where McDonald's is sued for a customer spilling hot coffee. If you think some greedy lawyer and a money hungry "victim" wont sue the first time an injury occurs in a vehicle with a modified seat belt, you might be interested in some ocean front Arizona property.

As it stands, if you crash the vehicle and get hurt, its your fault. If someone else runs into to you and you get hurt its their fault. The company's liability is minimal as they meet the standard required by law which is the standard all manufacturers are held to.

It's comforting that the company cares enough about our safety to do the bare minimum allowed by law and not spend the extra $50 bucks over the 20 year lifespan of a vehicle. Gee, why do we roll our eyes when we you say safety first.

 

[TearsInRain]

i think the financial cost of installing them is less than the potential lawsuits and injury-settlements

 

[The Blackadder]

Lap belts are a joke.

No company that claimed to care about safety like UPS does would have them.

If we can not retro fit the trucks, then those trucks should long ago have been gone.