Where are the real populists (Tea partiers) now?

diesel96

Well-Known Member
I would agree that Hitler is an extreme example. But those here that see the war on a powerless republican party, war on the banks ( the jews were the money managers in germany) war on big business, war on the military and the strong move towards socialism have hitleresk concerns. Obama essentially has total control of the political processes here and is flaming the same class warfare issues that hitler flamed in the 30's. Sadly there are real similarities here.


Powerless Republican party, please.....Our whole Gov't in Wash is broken. Our elected officials are no longer independent thinkers who conscientiously seperate party affilliation with national issues of importance. They either follow their dumb parties idealogy in lock step or follow the money trail. Until this practise is exposed, nothing will get done in the Beltway and thats just what the right wing is hoping for, complete utter failure for our President and our Country....Until there is an effort of Bi-partisanship to get legislation passed, I'd say amend legislation via simple majority. This super majority, fillerbuster is being abused and intentionally used as a tool to shut down Gov't. But eventually, like or not, your failed strategies, policies, and obstructionism will come back in your face like peeing in a fan. Republicans and Obama haters who infiltrate the true populist Tea Party movement are nothing more than leeches at summer camp. And why the "real" Tea partiers allow and accept "Big Gov't spending Republicans" and Corperate backing in their movement is beyond my payroll to understand, and IMO nullifies any creditibilty or validity to their message accept not understanding the Supreme Court election ruling or the definition of name calling accusations of Socialist, Marxist, and nice poster renditions of Obama with a Hitler moustache. And did I mention Sarah Palin as their hero spokesperson......I understand she came with a pricetag......lol
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
There is absolutely no comparison between the Nazis and this administration, or any previous administration.
Anyone making such a comparison is:
1. ignorant
2. completely lacking in historical perspective
3. some combination of 1 and 2
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
There is absolutely no comparison between the Nazis and this administration, or any previous administration.
Anyone making such a comparison is:
1. ignorant
2. completely lacking in historical perspective
3. some combination of 1 and 2
I completely agreed with Senator Durbin's assessment and to this day am furious for his retraction. There are some things done in the name of this country that we find reprehensible when others perform them and are excused for the simple fact that we are the ones doing them. It is one thing to call other's Nazis and quite another to juxtapose our actions against those of our foes for the purpose of guiding the nation. That is neither ignorant nor lacking in historical perspective. It is simply applying to our own actions the same moral standards that we would hold others to.
 

tieguy

Banned
There is absolutely no comparison between the Nazis and this administration, or any previous administration.
Anyone making such a comparison is:
1. ignorant
2. completely lacking in historical perspective
3. some combination of 1 and 2

Anyone who makes such an argument against the next hitler is either

1) Ignorant
2) completely lacking in historical perspective
3) some combination thereof.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I completely agreed with Senator Durbin's assessment and to this day am furious for his retraction. There are some things done in the name of this country that we find reprehensible when others perform them and are excused for the simple fact that we are the ones doing them. It is one thing to call other's Nazis and quite another to juxtapose our actions against those of our foes for the purpose of guiding the nation. That is neither ignorant nor lacking in historical perspective. It is simply applying to our own actions the same moral standards that we would hold others to.

Anyone who makes such an argument against the next Hitler is either
1) Ignorant
2) completely lacking in historical perspective
3) some combination thereof.
If you guys want to argue about who's political party is the real heir to the Nazi's knock yourselves out. But it's ridiculous.
 

tieguy

Banned
If you guys want to argue about who's political party is the real heir to the Nazi's knock yourselves out. But it's ridiculous.

I could be wrong but I thought I talked about a strong move towards socialism. Hitler and naism tends to muddy a good discussion. How Hitler took power, his move towards a socialistic state and his search for a common enemy to rally the economics starved germans are examples that have reappeared lately under the Obama administration. The heir to the Nazi's or Nazi king does not interest me.

Hitler is generally considered a thread killer but his tactics are still relevant.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist, and he certainly did not move Germany towards socialism. He outlawed labor unions, and any actual socialist (whom he lumped together with communists) that he got his hands on he generally had shot. National Socialism, in practice, was a very unique (and reprehensible) philosophy that was based in strident nationalism, racism, anticommunism, and a sort of weird worship of things that were traditionally "German". It doesn't bear any resemblance to the political philosophies of either the republicans or the democrats. As far as tactics goes, I haven't seen a Reichstag fire, Kristallnacht, or "Night of the Long Knives". So no, there's no resemblance there either.
 

tieguy

Banned
Jones;684391As far as tactics goes said:
I didn't realize that those were the only criteria allowed to make those comparisons.

I'm curious as a "conservative" do you ever find fault with anything Obama does?
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I didn't realize that those were the only criteria allowed to make those comparisons.
Criteria like that are the reason that people make those comparisons in the first place. The whole point of bringing Hitler or the Nazis into the conversation is to try and tie someone to one of history's greatest evils.

I'm curious as a "conservative" do you ever find fault with anything Obama does?
The bailout of the banks, indefinite detention without trials, shielding the telecoms from lawsuits in connection with warrantless wiretapping. I'd toss the healthcare plan in there but it appears to be far from a done deal. The truth is he actually hasn't "done" that much. I'm not optimistic about his Afghanistan strategy, but I'm willing to take a wait and see approach on that for now.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I think you give Hitler and the Nazi's too much credit. They were merely evil on steroids. Call it a flowchart of evil. A historical reference of evil that we could, if we wanted to, guage our own actions. We as a nation have measured ourselves against all great societies ancient and present and even can begin to see signs of demise much like that of the Roman empire. That does not mean we are the same as other societies or that we are doomed to go the way of the Roman empire. But if the similarities are present, noone recoils from them. Why so with Hitler or Stalin or Amin or Hussein? Is torture done American style that much more pleasant? Does it have to take place on larger scale for it to be considered evil?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
A bit OT but you guys went from Tea Party to Hilter so what the hey! :wink2:

Since you guys are talking Hitler et al I ran across this at Wired.com about the latest upgrade to GoogleEarth's platform. Looking at the photos of then and now one might proclaim all the new (economically speaking) that resulted as of the war but I'm just reminded of the Broken Window Fallacy!
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Let's all hope that they do not sell out. I for one hope that they stand up for the freedom to spend your money how you please. Speaking of which is not that idiot Obama the biggest fool you've ever seen? After opting out of campaign finance laws during the last election he now is trying to fool people into thinking that he somehow supports limits on campaign spending. Or is it his supporters that are the fools?

I is my opinion that he thinks all of us in America are fools. A lot of people who didn't see through him before the election are turning against him now. The proof is in the polls. I have personally seen some of the people I know who voted for him, turn and bad mouth him worse than I have. It was very refreshing to hear! Personally I am getting sick and tired of watching the idiot give his campaign speeches on TV. This really hit home yesterday when Katie Curic had an interview with him on the Superbowl pre-game! I flipped the station to ESPN. I call BO an idiot because anything else I call him would be deleted out! He actually is very cunning and knows how to use the American people for his advantage. The only problem is that the pedestal that the left wingers and media put him on is getting in the way!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I is my opinion that he thinks all of us in America are fools. A lot of people who didn't see through him before the election are turning against him now. The proof is in the polls. I have personally seen some of the people I know who voted for him, turn and bad mouth him worse than I have. It was very refreshing to hear! Personally I am getting sick and tired of watching the idiot give his campaign speeches on TV. This really hit home yesterday when Katie Curic had an interview with him on the Superbowl pre-game! I flipped the station to ESPN. I call BO an idiot because anything else I call him would be deleted out! He actually is very cunning and knows how to use the American people for his advantage. The only problem is that the pedestal that the left wingers and media put him on is getting in the way!

Could it be that people across an ever growing spectrum are reaching back to past moral and ethical precepts long buried in our past and beginning to measure what they see to those standards and realize the truth of what we really have and have had for quite some time?

It's not right, left or centrist, it pure ethics and morals based on philosophy. Is it so odd? Did not the greatest movements of man come about by great men of philosophy who cause us to look inward for a true moral compass? Even Jesus was as much as a political rebel because of his philosophical lessons of morals and ethics that challenged the Roman/Judean central gov't in causing the people's eyes to open and see the vast conflict of what the gov't said was good and what the truth said was good.

Judge the gov't no matter the party or political spectrum from the standards of

Shall not steal
Shall not covet
Shall not lie
Shall not murder

and then if you are honest, where then do we find ourselves?
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
And speaking more of Hitler, Paul Craig Roberts, former Treasury official in the Reagan Adminstration speaks of the present Police State that is America.

Hey, but they are "enemy combatants" so the rules don't apply :rolleyes2:.

Unfortunately, one day anyone who opposes the government, even in the most righteous of circumstances, will be an "enemy" one day.

Who would have known that we would not only import Chinese made goods but our government would import their political philosophy.

Let's be thankful that China has not imported our affinity for murdering people around the world.
 

tieguy

Banned
Hey, but they are "enemy combatants" so the rules don't apply :rolleyes2:.

Unfortunately, one day anyone who opposes the government, even in the most righteous of circumstances, will be an "enemy" one day.

Who would have known that we would not only import Chinese made goods but our government would import their political philosophy.

Let's be thankful that China has not imported our affinity for murdering people around the world.

perhaps they can import a few liberal country haters instead who may acquire a new appreciation for this country that exports murder.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Hey, but they are "enemy combatants" so the rules don't apply :rolleyes2:.

Unfortunately, one day anyone who opposes the government, even in the most righteous of circumstances, will be an "enemy" one day.

Who would have known that we would not only import Chinese made goods but our government would import their political philosophy.

Let's be thankful that China has not imported our affinity for murdering people around the world.

Good points! On a related topic of American Global death and destruction :wink2: we've all heard the last few weeks of Iran's threat of something big tomorrow (2/11) that is suppose to shock the western world. What will it be? Some suggest the balloon will go up and Iran will either reveal a secret nuke program with weapons to match to an attack on Israel or even American assets in the Middle East. Nothing is impossible when it comes to the loonies that run Iran but let's be honest, it'd be an act of sheer suicide and Iran wouldn't live to see the sun set on it's ancient and historic lands and I think the folks in power, not unlike our own loonies here, are more concerned about staying in power for tomorrow and next week than being a national martyr for some Pan-Islamic cause.

Now this hasn't stopped our own loonies of benefacting from the whole affair as AP ran a pure propaganda piece on Iran nuke program only to later retract it and offer up a different storyline. Scott Horton at Antiwar Radio interviewed Antiwar.com editor Jason Ditz on the matter and Scott takes a little fun/political license suggesting Jason forced AP's hand to pull the story but regardless of why, AP did pull it. It doesn't help matters that Iran's leaders and Islamic leadership council lends itself at times to being easily demonized but if Iran takes some physical, military approach tomorrow, I believe it's bye-bye Iran.

However, what might be more plausible and makes good sense is an economic strike and Iran is fully capable of that as we speak. In 2006' Iran and the US weren't best buds but they had a behind the scenes relationship in regards to the situation at the time in Iraq. It's easy to forget that Iran supported the US Iraq invasion and granted motives weren't the same obviously, they weren't the enemy then that they are painted to be now. So what happened, where did the train jump the tracks? I'm sure the warhawks can supply many answers but there's an old saying, follow the money. Iran, like Saddam was in good standing, even tolerated but Saddam made a critical error in the late 90's and began a quest to circumvent the global money of western control of oil trading by trading oil not in dollars but in euros. Saddam's Oil Bourse threatened the dollar as the global reserve currency but then Iran followed suit and it was learned 2004/2005 that Iran would open it's own bourse and at first rumors flew that this new State owned market would trade in gold but later this subsided or found lacking. Regardless, Iran was now squarely in the gunsights of US economic hegemony and it's storebought pitbull otherwise known as the US Miltary.

If I had to guess tomorrow what Iran could do that would strike a huge blow to western power and yet not be a physical provacation, it is to announce to the world of the wide open trading of oil for Euros or even some other currency at the Iranian oil bourse on Kish Island. What plays into Iran's favor is the simple fact that for some time other global states have been lining up against the current dollar domination and now the time is right to strike if this is what Iran has planned. It's brillant if not perfect and leaves American monetary monopoly with egg on it's face and utterly powerless to do anything about it unless it chooses to show it's true imperialist power and use pure might but then the storyline of spreading freedom and democracy could clearly be seen as the sham that it always has been.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day indeed and it may come to past of nothing more than the Iranian fearless peter..uh I mean leader just verbally posturing and chest thumping for the home folks knowing most of them can't see from outside the forest. However, if he plays the economic trump card that all the little pieces have been lining up to play, Obama and the Congress, both the democrat and republican heirarchy may indeed find themselves facing a gov't that is completely broke but the question is, how will they bankrupt? They did in 71' but were able to do so by closing the gold window and telling the world to pound sand at the death of Bretton Woods. There is no gold window now so will they collaspe or hyper inflate? I'm betting the latter! And it may not be just Iran laughing tomorrow either but we did it to ourselves. Never fight a bigger, stronger opponent to his strenghts, sucker him in and defeat him with his weakness. Damn idiots in Washington, All of them!
:wink2:

Oh, and for those who are rolling their eyes of a bankruptcy of the US in 1971'? That was actually the 2nd 20th century bankruptcy as the first happened in 1933' when FDR closed the domestic gold window. You see, the promissary note you and I call a dollar use to look like this and had the 4 components to make it a true promissary note. A payor, a payee, a due date and an amount paid to the presenter. In the case above, the payor is the Federal Reserve Bank, the payee is the one who holds the note, due date is when presented and the amount is $10. This was the same as a promissary note we commonly call a mortgage and is the source of the old saying, "my bank holds a note on my house." That note had the 4 critieria of any common promissary note, payor (you) payee (the bank) due date (end of 30 years by installment) and the amount (total at end of 30 years). If we no longer have the means to pay we stop payment and in effect commit an act of bankruptcy so to speak. It's then up to the note holder to begin legal processes to retrieve property and if then a 3rd party is called in by the debtor to negociate a settlement between debtor and all claimants. In 1933' the US gov't told all US citizens it was refusing to pay it's debt to the citizenry (a debt of labor and goods exchanged for a medium of exchange in the form of a hard currency commodity represented in a paper IOU we commonly call a dollar) and then in 1971' it told the same to the world. In either case, the claimants at damage either were powerless or refused to sue for settlement. So in reality the US has bankrupted twice (unable to pay it's debts), with the first time being 20 years after the Federal Reserve was created, the 2nd was nearly 40 years later and now 40 plus years later again, where do we find ourselves? Seeing a pattern here folks?

As I said, tomorrow will be an interesting day indeed. Global payback?
It's a pure crapshoot how it will turn out.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
They don't need to import an affinity for murdering people around the world, they just murder their own!

:sword:

Believe me, I am no fan of China. In fact I think it is the height of hypocrisy that we refused to do business with the U.S.S.R for all those years and yet we have flung open our doors to Communist China.

But the fact is...no one is flying planes into their skyscrapers. Maybe they just don't have the problem of blowback like we have.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
As for Iran, to be fearful of them is a joke so you must believe we have ulterior motives for all our drum beating as of late.

We lived, and still do, under the threat of total annihilation, if Russia so chose to do it. And yet we fear a little pissant country in the Middle East? Please, give me a break.

Our only concern is oil, oh and let's not forget the unofficial 51st state, Israel, that we have sworn to protect. Even though they are sitting on who knows how many nukes and are quite capable of protecting themselves.

All I ask: can I please choose what my tax dollars are spent on? Then the armchair generals can blow up the world but at least I can have a clear conscience that I didn't help pay for it.
 
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