Wind Power Innovations

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Yes. I have no idea if it exists. Might not today, but an idea shaped over a decade very well could stumble across such a sweet spot.

I could see it out on an open interstate but on local road with turns and curves, that may unload the aero effect and that 50 hp motor would be pushing a tank so to speak.

It may be the future but I love noodling such things out like this.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I could see it out on an open interstate but on local road with turns and curves, that may unload the aero effect and that 50 hp motor would be pushing a tank so to speak.

It may be the future but I love noodling such things out like this.
The open road. That suggests something as simple as ECM loop combined with the length and shape of the "wing".
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
A wing big enough to provide a meaningful amount of lift would cause the vehicle to be too wide to use most streets. Plus, wings add both weight and drag. And it only takes a split second for decreased traction to have potentially fatal consequences at 70MPH.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Yes- but what about that "experimental" carb that got accidentally left on that guys car out east that was suppose to get 200 mpg. You must have heard about that from a friend of a friends third cousin. You know the one that was taken from him when he took his car to the dealer for an oil change. I personally have some cow magnets for sale that you tape on your fuel line and some miracle pills you dump into the gas tank--both of which guarantee you 50% better mileage.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Yes- but what about that "experimental" carb that got accidentally left on that guys car out east that was suppose to get 200 mpg. You must have heard about that from a friend of a friends third cousin. You know the one that was taken from him when he took his car to the dealer for an oil change. I personally have some cow magnets for sale that you tape on your fuel line and some miracle pills you dump into the gas tank--both of which guarantee you 50% better mileage.

I'm actually appreciating a useless Moreluck meme about now. Seems it might actually be more on topic at the moment.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
So you don't want to buy any cow magnets or pills at this time?
1238268865thumbnail_1238268762.jpg
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
A wing big enough to provide a meaningful amount of lift would cause the vehicle to be too wide to use most streets. Plus, wings add both weight and drag. And it only takes a split second for decreased traction to have potentially fatal consequences at 70MPH.

Sober,

This has nothing to do with wind but about biofuel from aquaculture. Thought about you when I read it and wanted to pass along.

Boeing, Etihad, GE and MIST to build world's first aquaculture and biofuel plant at Masdar City

Read more:Boeing, Etihad, GE and MIST to build world's first aquaculture and biofuel plant at Masdar City | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
A wing big enough to provide a meaningful amount of lift would cause the vehicle to be too wide to use most streets. Plus, wings add both weight and drag. And it only takes a split second for decreased traction to have potentially fatal consequences at 70MPH.
I don't know. A spoiler is basically an inverted wing and is enough to create downward force and is not considered too big to be effective. Also, the same airflow causing lift at the front of 5he vehicle could be directed to cause downward pressure for sufficient grip at the drive wheels. Add in computer assisted braking and stability controls that have inputs of 1,000 per second and that split second at 70 mph becomes manageable.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I don't know. A spoiler is basically an inverted wing and is enough to create downward force and is not considered too big to be effective. Also, the same airflow causing lift at the front of 5he vehicle could be directed to cause downward pressure for sufficient grip at the drive wheels. Add in computer assisted braking and stability controls that have inputs of 1,000 per second and that split second at 70 mph becomes manageable.
A spoiler is used on a racecar where ultra high speed traction is critical and fuel economy is not an issue. It creates downward force on the back of the car at the cost of increased drag, which is an acceptable compromise due to the fact that racecars have far more power than can be transmitted to the rear wheels without slippage.

A wing on a car that could create enough lift to increase fuel economy by decreasing rolling resistance would have that decrease offset by the resulting increase in drag and weight.

Your idea is intriguing but unfortunately you cant get something for nothing.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
A spoiler is used on a racecar where ultra high speed traction is critical and fuel economy is not an issue. It creates downward force on the back of the car at the cost of increased drag, which is an acceptable compromise due to the fact that racecars have far more power than can be transmitted to the rear wheels without slippage.

A wing on a car that could create enough lift to increase fuel economy by decreasing rolling resistance would have that decrease offset by the resulting increase in drag and weight.

Your idea is intriguing but unfortunately you cant get something for nothing.
The iidea is not something for nothing. It is applying the undesired force of wind resistance in a more desirable direction. It is using lift to take a calculated force off the chassis not by feet, but by inches. It's an exercise in directional airflow and possibilities deriving from it.
 

VonDutch

Bite your tongue, Missy
I could see it out on an open interstate but on local road with turns and curves, that may unload the aero effect and that 50 hp motor would be pushing a tank so to speak.

It may be the future but I love noodling such things out like this.

It was touched on above. Aerodynamic lift will create a lack of traction. It won't have to be on a curve to be seen. Watch a truck driving in a straight line have it's trailer start to come around when it hits black ice.

A wing big enough to provide a meaningful amount of lift would cause the vehicle to be too wide to use most streets. Plus, wings add both weight and drag. And it only takes a split second for decreased traction to have potentially fatal consequences at 70MPH.

A wing could make the same amount of lift with length but it will still create weight and drag as you mentioned.

I don't know. A spoiler is basically an inverted wing and is enough to create downward force and is not considered too big to be effective. Also, the same airflow causing lift at the front of 5he vehicle could be directed to cause downward pressure for sufficient grip at the drive wheels. Add in computer assisted braking and stability controls that have inputs of 1,000 per second and that split second at 70 mph becomes manageable.

This is a spoiler:

Nascar.jpg


This is a wing:
mclaren-f1-gtr-longtail-1997-1822.jpg


They're apples and oranges and it is possible to be to big, have too much drag, too much lift (or downforce) to be effective.
Something that would have to be factored is balance. That would have to be constantly corrected for vehicle weight, wind, speed, etc. There's no one easy answer.

A spoiler is used on a racecar where ultra high speed traction is critical and fuel economy is not an issue. It creates downward force on the back of the car at the cost of increased drag, which is an acceptable compromise due to the fact that racecars have far more power than can be transmitted to the rear wheels without slippage.

A wing on a car that could create enough lift to increase fuel economy by decreasing rolling resistance would have that decrease offset by the resulting increase in drag and weight.

Your idea is intriguing but unfortunately you cant get something for nothing.

There's infinite possibilities but to get one to work in all situations would be impossible.


The idea I would be focusing on for street vehicles would be to reduce drag utmost with "clean" aerodynamics, reduced weight for efficiency, and rolling resistance. Lift or downforce are not the answer in that area.
 
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