45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by brett636, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Hope and change, hope and change...


    Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

    The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

    It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.

    The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics — including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development — will be covered later in this series.

    Major findings included:

    • Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.

    It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."

    Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA — the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" — is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."

    The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.

    Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.

    More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting.

    • More than seven in 10 doctors, or 71% — the most lopsided response in the poll — answered "no" when asked if they believed "the government can cover 47 million more people and that it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better."

    This response is consistent with critics who complain that the administration and congressional Democrats have yet to explain how, even with the current number of physicians and nurses, they can cover more people and lower the cost at the same time.

    The only way, the critics contend, is by rationing care — giving it to some and denying it to others. That cuts against another claim by plan supporters — that care would be better.

    IBD/TIPP's finding that many doctors could leave the business suggests that such rationing could be more severe than even critics believe. Rationing is one of the drawbacks associated with government plans in countries such as Canada and the U.K. Stories about growing waiting lists for badly needed care, horror stories of care gone wrong, babies born on sidewalks, and even people dying as a result of care delayed or denied are rife.

    In this country, the number of doctors is already lagging population growth.

    From 2003 to 2006, the number of active physicians in the U.S. grew by just 0.8% a year, adding a total of 25,700 doctors.

    Recent population growth has been 1% a year. Patients, in short, are already being added faster than physicians, creating a medical bottleneck.

    The great concern is that, with increased mandates, lower pay and less freedom to practice, doctors could abandon medicine in droves, as the IBD/TIPP Poll suggests. Under the proposed medical overhaul, an additional 47 million people would have to be cared for — an 18% increase in patient loads, without an equivalent increase in doctors. The actual effect could be somewhat less because a significant share of the uninsured already get care.

    Even so, the government vows to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from health care spending to pay for reform, which would encourage a flight from the profession.

    The U.S. today has just 2.4 physicians per 1,000 population — below the median of 3.1 for members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the official club of wealthy nations.

    Adding millions of patients to physicians' caseloads would threaten to overwhelm the system. Medical gatekeepers would have to deny care to large numbers of people. That means care would have to be rationed.

    "It's like giving everyone free bus passes, but there are only two buses," Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians, told the Associated Press.

    Hope for a surge in new doctors may be misplaced. A recent study from the Association of American Medical Colleges found steadily declining enrollment in medical schools since 1980.

    The study found that, just with current patient demand, the U.S. will have 159,000 fewer doctors than it needs by 2025. Unless corrected, that would make some sort of medical rationing or long waiting lists almost mandatory.

    Experiments at the state level show that an overhaul isn't likely to change much.

    On Monday came word from the Massachusetts Medical Society — a group representing physicians in a state that has implemented an overhaul similar to that under consideration in Washington — that doctor shortages remain a growing problem.

    Its 2009 Physician Workforce Study found that:

    • The primary care specialties of family medicine and internal medicine are in short supply for a fourth straight year.

    • The percentage of primary care practices closed to new patients is the highest ever recorded.

    • Seven of 18 specialties — dermatology, neurology, urology, vascular surgery and (for the first time) obstetrics-gynecology, in addition to family and internal medicine — are in short supply.

    • Recruitment and retention of physicians remains difficult, especially at community hospitals and with primary care.

    A key reason for the doctor shortages, according to the study, is a "lingering poor practice environment in the state."

    In 2006, Massachusetts passed its medical overhaul — minus a public option — similar to what's being proposed on a national scale now. It hasn't worked as expected. Costs are higher, with insurance premiums rising 22% faster than in the U.S. as a whole.

    "Health spending in Massachusetts is higher than the United States on average and is growing at a faster rate," according to a recent report from the Urban Institute.

    Other states with government-run or mandated health insurance systems, including Maine, Tennessee and Hawaii, have been forced to cut back services and coverage.

    This experience has been repeated in other countries where a form of nationalized care is common. In particular, many nationalized health systems seem to have trouble finding enough doctors to meet demand.

    In Britain, a lack of practicing physicians means the country has had to import thousands of foreign doctors to care for patients in the National Health Service.

    "A third of (British) primary care trusts are flying in (general practitioners) from as far away as Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Italy and Switzerland" because of a doctor shortage, a recent story in the British Daily Mail noted.

    British doctors, demoralized by long hours and burdensome rules, simply refuse to see patients at nights and weekends.

    Likewise, Canadian physicians who have to deal with the stringent rules and income limits imposed by that country's national health plan have emigrated in droves to other countries, including the U.S.
  2. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    more right wing propaganda for those gullible enough to swallow it.

    Anyone dumb enough to believe that a doctor, age 28, who would have just spent over 200K for a medical education to begin practicing medicine, would up and quit and have to find another line of work while still having over 200K in student loans is an IDIOT.

    If there is anyone who buys this junk, then you deserve FAUX news in your life.

    This poll was taken and the doctors who were polled were close to retirement age or at retirement age, a little fact left out of the reporting of this poll.

    This is a part of the misinformation campaign launched by the right wing with the help of FAUX news.

    It could be plausible, that a doctor near retirement age, may consider quiting his practice if health reform passes, but not because of the reform itself, but because of the major transitions they would have to go thru.

    It would be easier to just give up the practice and move to florida.

    If anyone believes that a trained physician would give up medicine and attempt to find a new career in an environment of high unemployment then that person doesnt have the capacity to engage in the health care debate.

    This kind of propaganda is exactly what the right wing needs its robots to disseminate. It doesnt matter if its an accurate reflection of the medical industry as a whole.

    I feel for the people on this board who repeat everything they hear on radio and FAUX news.

    Health care will be passed this year. Get over it.

  3. Hawaii50

    Hawaii50 Active Member

    You know perfectly well that a REAL study, appearing in the New England Journal Of Medicine, shows the truth. Very different from your cherry-picked subclass of doctors. "FYI this comment is from another user from the link you posted"

    Overall, a majority of physicians (62.9%) supported public and private options (see Panel A of graph). Only 27.3% supported offering private options only. Respondents — across all demographic subgroups, specialties, practice locations, and practice types — showed majority support (>57.4%) for the inclusion of a public option (see Table 1). Primary care providers were the most likely to support a public option (65.2%); among the other specialty groups, the “other” physicians — those in fields that generally have less regular direct contact with patients, such as radiology, anesthesiology, and nuclear medicine — were the least likely to support a public option, though 57.4% did so. Physicians in every census region showed majority support for a public option, with percentages in favor ranging from 58.9% in the South to 69.7% in the Northeast.
    Lasted edited by : Sep 18, 2009
  4. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    Considering quitting and actually quitting are drastically different.

    I consider quitting UPS everyday.
  5. MC4YOU2

    MC4YOU2 Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.

    I'd even consider retiring early either way.:happy2:
  6. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you missed the part about the declining medical school enrollment? A lot of doctors have been practicing for years and jumping out of the market is quite possible for them. Especially since this healthcare plan doesn't go online completely until 2013 giving them plenty of time to close their practice before the **** hits the fan.
  7. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Looks pretty legit to me. Goodluck finding a doctor in an obamacare world.
  8. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Same old, same old, bashing UK, and Canada, with untrue story-telling.

    Ofcourse, failed to mention all these other countries have national healthcare, too.

    And all these ar EU countries, that are actually much closer, then Seattle to NY.

    I wonder how many GP`s see patients nights and weekends, anyways.
    What a bunch of crap. We have walk-in clinics for weekends, that are open.

    In droves, eh .. yes, some have, sure wouldn`t call it an exodos.

    Rightwingers, should keep things as they are, until no company can afford it, and are forced to relocate overseas.
    Adding more to the uninsured population.
    Which will mean, less needed Physicains there, anyways.

    If America stands by it`s old ways, unwilling to change for a global market, the future won`t look very bright.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  9. Hawaii50

    Hawaii50 Active Member

    Do you really think doctors in mass are going to quit. I'm pretty sure someone who spent thousands of dollars for medical school. Then invest years of their life studying in a specialized medical field are going quit becuase of public option.

    Lets say doctors do quit in mass because of public option. How many doctors do you know of. Who have huge amounts of disposable income that they just can quit and not practice and still live the kind of life they are living. Doctors are very intelligent. Thats why they go school for years. 4 Years Pre-med then whatever years needed for their speciality. That's a lot of scarifice to just throw away becuase of public option. No doctor who is mentally sane is going to quit over public option.

    FYI I know someone who stood in the unemployment with a Harvard Degree in Business. If someone with a Harvard Degree in Business can't find job. Doctors won't be quiting and attempting a career change. Do you know how employers respond to someone with a high level of education. I'm sorry but you're overqualified for the position.
  10. fact check

    fact check New Member

  11. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Consider the source. IBD is the same magazine that claimed that Stephen Hawking wouldn't survive under the UK's medical system, apparently ignorant of the fact that he has spent his whole life under that same system. They probably didn't even know he was British :happy-very:. Oh well, they suckered Brett with all the pretty pictures, so score one for them!:wink2:
  12. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed. Actually, in any kind of polling people are going to say certain things to make a point. Some are sayng they'd quit because they don't like it, but they won't really quit.
  13. fact check

    fact check New Member

  14. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Like in MLB baseball, there's a saying ..."Oh, that's just Manny being Manny" (referring to Manny Ramierez of the Dodgers)......In this case, it's just Brett being Brett. Schooling us with his ultimate superiority of facts, evidense, and logic.....

    Doctors already have experience with government-run health care, with Medicare. And overall, they like it. Government is not interfering between patients and their physician. And general concensus is that physicians support Medicare. Physicians have signaled that a public option that's similar in design to Medicare would be a good way of ensuring patients get the care that they need.

  15. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Don't fall for that. It is simply not true. Doctors spend millions of dollars a year lobbying Congress to change Medicare or to stop the Government from making it worse. This is an article from before the current debate but it seems a little less biased since it was done before the current argument. I was in a specialists office last week and they were putting up a sign saying they were also no longer accepting Medicare patients.

  16. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    I hope that bites them in the butt.
    I`ld say to that doc, you no longer want to treat my mom or dad, because they are on medicare...
    no sense you treating me either !
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Is that what you tell the canadian doctors Klien. Oh thats right you don't talk to them only american doctors.:happy-very:

    I think I'm starting to understand this , you can't complain to a canadian doctor because you can't see one for months so you complain to an american doctor who you can see right away.
  18. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Now, your starting to piss me off teeguy.
    Go on the net, Monday, and do a phone look up in Edmonton for a doctor.. call them up , you`ll get an appointment same day, even if it`s not your reg doc.

    Do you have brains at all , eh.

    Imagine getting the flu, being told, can`t see a doc for few months... well, by then it`s long gone`, I would assume.

    Or being asked at work for a doctors note.
    We say, sure... I`ll be back in months, when I can get one.
  19. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Uhoh, now you've done it....
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Whew crap look out the beer bottles will be flying now.

    Yep I can go see one. then wait three months for an xray and 9 more months to get the biopsy done on that strange growth.

    If however i feel that wait is too long I can go to america and they'll pay some of the bills for me.

    Whats that got a swine flu epidemic. No problem the government will provide a vaccine two months after the americans have it.

    No problem just go to america and get your shot now.

    Klien don't get :censored2: at me I'm not the one that stuck you with that crappy government provided health care system.