B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage fee

[jokerofdeath]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

First off, unless you are at all familiar with the brokerage industry in Canada, Ferme ta bouche!!!

There is no way to defend the hefty price tag UPS puts on brokerage.

If this was SOOOO true, then explain to me why after over 3 months there has been no traction on this issue at all in the courts?

I've seen the garbage posted about how Canada Post is subsidised and therefor can charge a low price.

Lite or not, this is the cold hard fact of it and again, if you are not fully versed in the industry, bite your tongue.

Well what about DHL, who will allow you to set up an account to automatically pay, and thus avoid fees?

There is no avoiding. It is simply "paid" for and then you get a bill in the mail later. UPS in Canada offers the exact same thing.

Are they subsidised by the government too?.

Yes they are. The German government. DHL is wholly owned by Deutch Post. The largest delivery services organization in the world by revenue.

What a joke.

You, sir, are the joke. You come here with no declaration of who you are and what your qualifications are short of the obvious ones of ignorant and blowhard. You make subjective and vague criticizms and at no point offer one piece of evidence that refutes anything of what I have said and yet, somehow, YOU are right, YOU are smarter, YOU are the one that is SOOO in touch with the shipping and brokerage industry in Canada.

You sir, are the joke.

UPS brokerage fees are a scam - no way around it.

Enjoy your supposed victory in your mind all you want. When the class action filing against FedEx and UPS are tossed out by the judge, don't bother posting back here. You will most likey just try to claim that they both paid the judge off.

 

[booger]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Man, someone has an inflated view of their knowledge. Just because you work for UPS, doesn't mean you are a credible individual

Here's a little lesson in reality

1. Court cases take time.
2. Get your facts straight. DHL offers a service where you set up an account and the fees owing are paid by EMT. No bill to follow. Don't see that with UPS. So you are wrong. Check the DHL website Einstein.
3. The point above shoots your theory about the financial need for the crazy UPS charges to hell.
4. Here's another little tidbit. UPS with offer Air service to Canada with no brokerage charges. Of course, you have to use their Air Service. hmmmmmm. So they drop the outrageous charges if you use a particular service. Sounds to me like the fees aren't necessary at all for financial success.
5. Or maybe UPS is using these fees to subsidize their other services.
6. Or maybe UPS is using the fees to subsidize their stock price.
7. You don't need to be fully versed in the industry to understand what is going on here. You just need to put the theory to test. And for all your balling about knowing this and that, your theories don't hold water in the real world. Seems being 'in touch' with the industry means you can't see the forest through the trees
8. When UPS gets reamed in court for screwing consumers, it\s you who should not post back here.

 

[booger]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

You, sir, are the joke. You come here with no declaration of who you are and what your qualifications are short of the obvious ones of ignorant and blowhard. You make subjective and vague criticizms and at no point offer one piece of evidence that refutes anything of what I have said and yet, somehow, YOU are right, YOU are smarter, YOU are the one that is SOOO in touch with the shipping and brokerage industry in Canada.

You sir, are the joke.

I generally don't stoop to levels of bashing like this, but I will give you some correction. Who I am is a Canadian consumer. Happy. I see nothing ignorant in my post. Yours on the other hand.....

I would say you have based your theories completely on subjective and vague information. I see no statistics to back up why UPS needs to charge these outrageous fees to be financially sound, and neither how the Canada Post system is subsidized. No evidence whatsoever - just ranting.

I have refuted a number of things you have said. You just deny the truth and rant on. You should go to the DHL.ca website or contact them in person for better information. It is you who needs to start refuting my evidence with some real proof. Which you can't.

Ultimately, you are relying on your 'ultimate knowledge of the industry', instead of the true test. Try ordering cross border with DHL as I have and see the difference. The proof is in the pudding, and UPS loses bigtime.

 

[jokerofdeath]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

From the DHL Canada Website:

Effective February 6, 2006, DHL Canada will implement a disbursement charge for all air shipments requiring customs brokerage services. The fee applies when funds for duties and taxes are not provided in advance to DHL by the customer. The disbursement fee will be 2.5% of the value of the funds provided, or a minimum charge of $7.00. A charge will also be applied for additional line classification and entry. A $4.00 charge will be applied to the 6th and any subsequent lines. The disbursement fee covers part of our administrative and financing costs relating to the amounts we pay to customs on your behalf.

And you call me the ignorant one???

As for statistics, what are you looking for? The cost to warehouse the volume before it is cleared? The cost to store all of the documents according to THE LAW!!!!

The fact of the matter is that any non-government supported organization is charging brokerage to get the packages into the country. It is legal and is stated as so on the Government of Canada's web site. You have a problem with it, then write your MP.

As for the ??? about the express service, express is a premium service that comes with free brokerage so that we can remain the fastest and most on time delivery company in the world. Which, perhaps not in Canada but we are in the world.

As for you refuting anything, I am yet to see it.

 

[booger]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Well, well, well...

Bottom line is this. Your math doesn't add up. You have been claiming that the brokerage fees charged by UPS are required to cover costs, yet they are waived for premium services. So my camera lens that I am planning to order through a premium UPS service is going to cost me a total of $35cdn for shipping and that covers ALL brokerage fees. Well the brokerage fees are going to be in the 60 dollar range with the cheaper service. So how in the hell can you justify that the outrageous fees are necessary when you are dropping 60 dollars of revenue to replace it with essentially nothing. You are -$25 dollar in the hole, and that doesn't even account for the cost of regular shipping which would probably be $20-$25cdn. UPS should be bankrupt by your logic.

Nobody wants to hear about your knowledge of regulations. Time to work on the numbers and the facts. Ground charges are subsidizing UPS pocketbooks. And you talk about Canada Post service being subsidized.rotflmfao

Take those numbers to court and justify the crazy brokerage charges. UPS is going to get reamed.

 

[Madscanner]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

The original point seems to have been lost - that of hidden charges.

When you agree the purchase of an item, you should be told if all charges are, or are not included. If you are not told at the time of sale that there will be additional charges levied by the delivery agent, then there is no moral requirement to pay such fees. The contract for delivery of the goods is between the seller and the delivery agent - there is no contract between the recipient and the delivery agent.

It is especially galling when you get stung $15 for fees on a $5 item which is exempt from duty in the first place.

 

[booger]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

I think the real point has been made crystal clear by JoD - a shining example of UPS arrogance in regards to this issue:

'You have a problem, write your MP.' Click.

I'll go one better, I'll sue you, and I'll win.

 

[DS]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Obviously jokerofdeath,you have nothing bad to say about ups and thier brokerage charges because you have never had to deal with the grandmothers having to pay $36.97 to recieve her Christmas gift from her daughter,the mother that visits her son in Florida and forgets her coat,and has to pay the $28.44 ransom to get her coat back.The george foreman grills I used to deliver with a vastly different charge on each one,even though they were all bought from the same site,on line with a credit card.The up to 10 packages we have to deliver each day that turns our customers smiles into dropped jaws.If you set up this system then I`m sure your additions to the coffers will not go unnoticed by the bean counters so you have nothing to worry about there.I agree with booger that if ups can absorb the brokerage costs for the premium services,theres no reason we can`t do the same thing for personal items bought on line or otherwise.
Please refrain from personal attacks, its ok to disagree,but name calling will not be tolerated.
Moderator

 

[DS]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

The regulations on gift are set by the Government of Canada and are currently $60. If the CBSA agent believes that a package has a bogus value, they will reasses themselevs and then UPS is bound to apply the new value.

Sorry, but yet again, the issues that people have with UPS and the other carriers and their brokerage fees are skewed heavily by the lack of knowledge on import regulations...

Its me!!! I`m back again...jokerofdeath...
This week was brokerage hell for me.I had a lady asking me
why there was brokerage charges of $37.85
on a gift worth $35 US ,this was my 2nd delivery attempt that day for this pkg because thier car was in the driveway and rather than deal with it tomorrow,I knocked on the door.The customer had found my previous info-notice and was talking to the sender on the phone.I talked to the lady who sent it ...she asked why nothing was said when she sent it...
Informed me that she was embarassed and that she would not be using ups ever again...oh well ...who`s fault is this?
The lady sending her gift at the ups store,or hers?
You are so proud of your setting up the system there but
its still a total ripoff to the public in general.UPS should EAT
this fee .Your familiarity with Canadas import laws should not
be expected from Emma smith in tuktoyuktuk.

 

[123]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

The following may be slightly off-point, but may be of interest to those assessed these brokerage fees or who have to collect them. I live in the US, and sold a pair of slacks (very nice ones) on ebay to a man in Vancouver in May of this year. Today (8/27) I received a letter from FedEx informing me that I will be charged brokerage fees of just over $106. I've mailed packages to Canada via FeDEx ground before and never had any such fees assessed, so was unaware that the shipper could be charged brokerage fees, which I had never heard of, automatically and without recourse. The buyer of the pants has ignored my emails and my phone calls (he's an attorney, it turns out; imagine that). FedEx told me today that the recipient of the package would have had to have refused to pay the fees three times, and then FedEx went ahead and delivered the package anyway, billing me. I find this astonishing and outrageous. First, that FedEx does not inform shippers of these hidden fees; second, that FedEx did not notify me that the recipient was refusing to pay the fees and that I *might* be charged; third, that FedEx waited about three months after delivery to inform me of these charges, when it is too late to reasonably expect the buyer to pay for them; fourth, that FedEx has terms in its fine print that disallow class action lawsuits, since this behavior would be ripe for class adjudication, at least in the U.S.

 

[superotaku78]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Hello all,

Well, I'm the latest victim of this hidden fee garbage and wasn't too pleased when I was told I owed $40 on a $60 Ebay item today. Plus of course the $25 shipping charge they already took from me!

Within that $40 was about $9 in taxes which I don't mind paying, but to pay over $30 money for essentially nothing is just plain stupid. I love the fact too they have the gull to charge an extra $4.25 for a COD charge I didn't have a choice of using or not. As soon as I got my package I called the UPS customer service and got their rep to walk me through everyone of their charges...conclusion...it's garbage and I told her I will never use UPS again (like she cares, but it made me feel a little better).

Unfortunately, I think they're pretty much covered legally because the fee system is listed on their website and all their fine print seems to get them off. They do say we can be charged brokerage fees, it's just not really advertised. I have to agree with some of you that this is what makes them hidden fees. The whole ransom thing on your package is brutal too..."It looks good huh? Do you want it? $40.08 fee!!"

I believe that companies should have the right to charge whatever they want for their services, but should always make these charges crystal clear beforehand. I'm usually really good about doing my homework before buying anything, but this time I got lazy and didn't look into it as much as I should have. This is my fault and I've learned my lesson well...I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN. It's as simple as that.

On a side note, I used USPS for a package a couple of weeks ago and wasn't charged anything beyond the initial shipping charge. And it only took a day longer to get here than UPS.

 

[Russ Hook]

Re: Discuss

artlover,its not your fault that they charge this fee.
its a deal they have with the canadian government to create money for the both of them.They get 6% GST on everything and ups gets 1/3 of the price of the purchase for doing nothing. I agree with this lawsuit.Its a cash grab and its unnecessary.

This is so untrue its hilarous. Do post when you don't know what you're talking about. There is no "deal" with the Canadian governement. As a customs broker (and this applies to the hundreds of customs brokers across the country) we have to turn over the 6% GST, PST if the shipment is personal and varies depending on province and duty, if applicable. We then pass those charges on to the customer, obviously! There is a Disbursement fee, which is 2.7% of the total governement charges or $5.85, whichever is greater. We are putting money out on behalf of a customer. It's no longer in the bank collecting interest. Does the bank lend you money for free???? We are also providing a service, when was the last time you got your hair cut and didn't have to pay? Services don't come for free. This is called the Entry Prep Fee.
There is no Entry Prep Fee on UPS Express and Expedited shipments. Basically anything that is shipped Air. Just like DHL and FedEx Express, who both, by the way, charge disbursment fees as well.
They mention that Canada Post only charges $5.00. What they don't mention is that there is a lawsuit against Canada Post brought on by UPS and also includes FedEx and DHL. Canada Post is being sued for using Governement monies to subsidise their Courrier business. A broker could not be profitable by charging $5.00 to clear a package.
He mentions that he was not given the opportunity to choose his own broker. By law, we do not have to give that opportunity on a personal shipment. There are no brokers that I know of (and I have delt with many) that will clear a personal shipment coming by UPS, FedEx, DHL etc. As these shipments can be cleared by the carrier. There are exceptions of course, but the chances of finding a broker that will do this is unlikey.
This lawsuit will be dead in the water.

It seems a SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE in Ontario does NOT agree with you as a CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT there awarded consumers $6,800,000.00. UPS appealed and LOST.

 

[Russ Hook]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Hello all,

Well, I'm the latest victim of this hidden fee garbage and wasn't too pleased when I was told I owed $40 on a $60 Ebay item today. Plus of course the $25 shipping charge they already took from me!

Within that $40 was about $9 in taxes which I don't mind paying, but to pay over $30 money for essentially nothing is just plain stupid. I love the fact too they have the gull to charge an extra $4.25 for a COD charge I didn't have a choice of using or not. As soon as I got my package I called the UPS customer service and got their rep to walk me through everyone of their charges...conclusion...it's garbage and I told her I will never use UPS again (like she cares, but it made me feel a little better).

Unfortunately, I think they're pretty much covered legally because the fee system is listed on their website and all their fine print seems to get them off. They do say we can be charged brokerage fees, it's just not really advertised. I have to agree with some of you that this is what makes them hidden fees. The whole ransom thing on your package is brutal too..."It looks good huh? Do you want it? $40.08 fee!!"

I believe that companies should have the right to charge whatever they want for their services, but should always make these charges crystal clear beforehand. I'm usually really good about doing my homework before buying anything, but this time I got lazy and didn't look into it as much as I should have. This is my fault and I've learned my lesson well...I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN. It's as simple as that.

On a side note, I used USPS for a package a couple of weeks ago and wasn't charged anything beyond the initial shipping charge. And it only took a day longer to get here than UPS.

HI Super, UPS lost a class-action lawsuit in Ontario (around 2007 IIRC), for charging 'brokerage fees'. It was settled for $6,8000.000.00 They also LOST the appeal. This is OUTRIGHT THEFT, and many other major vendors like, Amazon, eBay, etc are in on it too! It's time we took a stand!

 

[Russ Hook]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

There is no way to defend the hefty price tag UPS puts on brokerage. I've seen the garbage posted about how Canada Post is subsidised and therefor can charge a low price. Well what about DHL, who will allow you to set up an account to automatically pay, and thus avoid fees? Are they subsidised by the government too?. What a joke.

Post after post of rationalization of the crazy fees charged by UPS, and the truth can be bottomlined in 3 sentences. UPS brokerage fees are a scam - no way around it.

YES booger! A SCAM! OUTRIGHT THEFT! I am a senior citizen on a fixed income and UPS is trying to charge me 40% of the worth of my item! I am getting legal advice of course.

 

[MyTripisCut]

HI Super, UPS lost a class-action lawsuit in Ontario (around 2007 IIRC), for charging 'brokerage fees'. It was settled for $6,8000.000.00 They also LOST the appeal. This is OUTRIGHT THEFT, and many other major vendors like, Amazon, eBay, etc are in on it too! It's time we took a stand!

I mean…..

YES booger! A SCAM! OUTRIGHT THEFT! I am a senior citizen on a fixed income and UPS is trying to charge me 40% of the worth of my item! I am getting legal advice of course.

It’s only been 14 years since anyone replied to this thread. Were you a senior citizen when it started or just a procrastinator?

 

[burrheadd]

Re: Discuss" B.C. man sets off class-action lawsuit against UPS over hidden brokerage

Hello all,

Well, I'm the latest victim of this hidden fee garbage and wasn't too pleased when I was told I owed $40 on a $60 Ebay item today. Plus of course the $25 shipping charge they already took from me!

Within that $40 was about $9 in taxes which I don't mind paying, but to pay over $30 money for essentially nothing is just plain stupid. I love the fact too they have the gull to charge an extra $4.25 for a COD charge I didn't have a choice of using or not. As soon as I got my package I called the UPS customer service and got their rep to walk me through everyone of their charges...conclusion...it's garbage and I told her I will never use UPS again (like she cares, but it made me feel a little better).

Unfortunately, I think they're pretty much covered legally because the fee system is listed on their website and all their fine print seems to get them off. They do say we can be charged brokerage fees, it's just not really advertised. I have to agree with some of you that this is what makes them hidden fees. The whole ransom thing on your package is brutal too..."It looks good huh? Do you want it? $40.08 fee!!"

I believe that companies should have the right to charge whatever they want for their services, but should always make these charges crystal clear beforehand. I'm usually really good about doing my homework before buying anything, but this time I got lazy and didn't look into it as much as I should have. This is my fault and I've learned my lesson well...I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN. It's as simple as that.

On a side note, I used USPS for a package a couple of weeks ago and wasn't charged anything beyond the initial shipping charge. And it only took a day longer to get here than UPS.

Wonder if he ever got part of that class action money