Bias toward "runners"?

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I'd like a reply from one of the management members. If a driver is setting up his load in the morning before he punches in and gets hurt-does he go on comp or do you put him on disability?

If a driver or any employee, is hurt when he is on UPS property or on the clock - the company is liable. PERIOD!

Years and years ago in Southern California, the bonus system ruled the roost!

Drivers were making bonus out the yahzoo! Nobody except maybe a Business Agent (even a lot of the stewards looked the other way), cared if drivers were working through their lunch or going through their loads before work. I am not saying it was right - I am just saying that is the way it was.

As the allowances tightened up and Driver Release was put into the methods, things changed and supervisors had to start supervising and the methods came into play and the union became stronger forcing the contract to be followed.

I managed under-allowed centers, one was Pasadena Ctr (home of the Rose Bowl) which was one of the most productive centers in the country. 9.3 paid day and 21.5 SPORH with an avg. under-allowed of -1.30. Try to find numbers like that!

This center was one of the last in the region to go DR. The drivers were signing for packages. When the division manager came in and told the drivers that anyone caught signing for packages from now on would be fired the drivers had a backlash! The center went to 10.8 paid day 12.3 SPORH and from 50 to 550 send agains. This all happened in one day!

The send agains were a killer! The entire division (4 centers) had only 350 send agains!!

After that everything was done by the book and by the contract. That was back in the late '80s.

Sorry for the history lesson!!

My idea of a perfect center or driver is
1- Treat your people with respect and follow the contract
2- No injuries or accidents
3- No service problems including claims
4- 9.4 paid day or less
5- Scratch center performance or individual bonus using the methods
 

Captain America

SuperDAD to the rescue
Steeltoe

Driving with my bulkhead door open is not a Union issue
Working off the clock is !! Get with it

The Bulkhead door safety issue is a UPS policy to protect them from being sued if a package flies from inside the car into the street and causing an accident or damaging the package. If something happens, UPS is not liable. That is there protection

When doing residential deliveries, I leave it open, faster and convienient
Near the center and on the highway it stays closed when I drive

When you answer your cell phone, do you put it in the diad as a break. Apparently that is a personal time, not doing UPS work. There is so many policies, it can be used to fight anyone

I do my job well and thats that


I don't know about you, but I signed some document from the homeland security or some agency saying I would keep truck locked up. :punk: RUNNER!
 
IMO, the worst thing about "milkers" is that their work methods usually force stops to be moved around in some fashion, usually screwing over a neighboring driver. The good thing about "milkers" is that they set the ground work for more routes to be added (as someone else already mentioned).
Runners have both pluses and minuses also. Generally poorer service to the consignees, less than safe work methods, artificial reflection of the efficiency of the job. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard management say, " Joe can do 20 sporh, why can't you?" They don't want to hear that Joe doesn't follow proper work methods and works off the clock( in fact they will usually tell you that Joe works with proper methods). Yet they are more than happy to point out poor work methods anytime a "milker" runs over. The positive side of a "runner" is that his production numbers are usually pretty good. Bottom line is, if EVERY driver worked by the 340 methods, never off the clock, and filed over 9.5 grievances more routes would have to be added.

HEFFERNAN
Driving with my bulkhead door open is not a Union issue
Can most defiantly be a union issue, it is a violation of company policy that can result in discipline bringing the union into play. Regardless of the reasons for the rule, it IS the rule.

Captain America
I don't know about you, but I signed some document from the homeland security or some agency saying I would keep truck locked up.
I've never seen such a document, personally I have feeling the Homeland Security slant to this is a tool of intimidation the company uses to encourage a secure vehicle.

UPS Lifer
My idea of a perfect center or driver is
1- Treat your people with respect and follow the contract
2- No injuries or accidents
3- No service problems including claims
4- 9.4 paid day or less
5- Scratch center performance or individual bonus using the methods
The only problem with this is that we do not live in a perfect world. There are so many factors that can prevent your five points to a perfect center/driver. Let's start with a perfect management team who does follow the contract and respects the drivers. This of course has to go both ways. Then a no pas/edd errors, stop for stop load. A perfect start time... hmmm 8:30 am (don't wanna ask for too much). Every employee needs to follow the perfect work methods for each job, no exceptions either by the hourly or the management. Many service problems as well as claims are created by outside forces that no one in the company can control. I would much prefer an 8 hour day that can actually be done in 8 hours. The perfect day has to include a scratch performance, however the requirements for a scratch performance has been eroded over the last few years that I'm not sure many are capable of 0 o/u by following the perfect work methods.
Lifer, I love your dream of the Perfect Center/Driver. I also admire MLKs " I have a Dream". I so wish we lived in a perfect world.
 

Bad Gas!

Well-Known Member
If a driver or any employee, is hurt when he is on UPS property or on the clock - the company is liable. PERIOD!

Years and years ago in Southern California, the bonus system ruled the roost!

Drivers were making bonus out the yahzoo! Nobody except maybe a Business Agent (even a lot of the stewards looked the other way), cared if drivers were working through their lunch or going through their loads before work. I am not saying it was right - I am just saying that is the way it was.

As the allowances tightened up and Driver Release was put into the methods, things changed and supervisors had to start supervising and the methods came into play and the union became stronger forcing the contract to be followed.

I managed under-allowed centers, one was Pasadena Ctr (home of the Rose Bowl) which was one of the most productive centers in the country. 9.3 paid day and 21.5 SPORH with an avg. under-allowed of -1.30. Try to find numbers like that!

This center was one of the last in the region to go DR. The drivers were signing for packages. When the division manager came in and told the drivers that anyone caught signing for packages from now on would be fired the drivers had a backlash! The center went to 10.8 paid day 12.3 SPORH and from 50 to 550 send agains. This all happened in one day!

The send agains were a killer! The entire division (4 centers) had only 350 send agains!!

After that everything was done by the book and by the contract. That was back in the late '80s.

Sorry for the history lesson!!

My idea of a perfect center or driver is
1- Treat your people with respect and follow the contract
2- No injuries or accidents
3- No service problems including claims
4- 9.4 paid day or less
5- Scratch center performance or individual bonus using the methods
 

Bad Gas!

Well-Known Member
I like the mgt response but:Down south mgt doesnt give much respect.Our weather is usually good so we are loaded up year round to make up for weather slow downs throughout the country.The ERI reports give very poor mgt rating.I like the on car soups.I feel for em.They are cought in the downhill chain of cammand orders....So without respect it's hard to give it back....We had a new time study(first since'92) done last year....Everybody did by the book studies and worked late..Just about all the routes gained...What happened? The division manager tore up new allowences after 3 days and went back to the old allowences....Why? because it woul've called for 3-5 more routes in a 60 driver center..This in turn would give pressure on division mgt from region mgt and corporate...So whatever with the perfect center.I didn't even touch the other 4 pts. listed..
 

upsdude

Well-Known Member
I’ve been accused of being a “runner” because I consistently run scratch or better on my route. I do my job and take my 70 minutes (60 lunch, 10 paid break), if I beat the route, big deal, UPS made some extra cash that day. If I run over they’ve never asked me for any money back. Prior to a time study nearly 2 years ago I ran about 30-45 minutes over everyday, now I’m generally 15-30 minutes under.

I will say that way back when I started driving, I was a “RUNNER”. Yes, that’s with all caps. The person that slowed me down and kept me out of trouble was my center manager. After about a year driving the center manager shows up at one of my stops. He did the typical audit, looked at my paper records, dot card, license, and dvir. Everything was in order so he said he was buying me lunch. I told him I didn’t really have time to sit down and eat, he said yes you do. He explained to me that I was setting myself up for injury/accident or other service type issue if I didn’t slow down a little. He added that I had enough heart and motivation for 2 people and I would do him no good at home injured or suspended. He said there were 3 of us that needed to slow down just a little and we reminded him of himself when he started driving. I can’t speak for the other folks but I took the suggestion to heart, treated every stop individually and didn’t worry about the “numbers”. Everything fell into place.
 

mattwtrs

Retired Senior Member
The person that slowed me down and kept me out of trouble was my center manager. After about a year driving the center manager shows up at one of my stops. He did the typical audit, looked at my paper records, dot card, license, and dvir. Everything was in order so he said he was buying me lunch. I told him I didn’t really have time to sit down and eat, he said yes you do. He explained to me that I was setting myself up for injury/accident or other service type issue if I didn’t slow down a little. He added that I had enough heart and motivation for 2 people and I would do him no good at home injured or suspended. He said there were 3 of us that needed to slow down just a little and we reminded him of himself when he started driving. I can’t speak for the other folks but I took the suggestion to heart, treated every stop individually and didn’t worry about the “numbers”. Everything fell into place.

upsdude, Your manager sounds like a great leader and possible friend. It's a shame he wasn't cloned. How long was he your manager and did he ever get promoted to Division Manager or higher?
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
I don't know about you, but I signed some document from the homeland security or some agency saying I would keep truck locked up. :punk: RUNNER!

That was after 9/11, and everyone was all hyped up about security
Keep it locked up during business stops
But when you're doing 40 residential stops in a nice neighborhood, why keep on shutting it
I dont care if I'm the only one out of xxxxxx drivers doing it
I know I'm not though
Do what youre comfortable with, don't do what I do
 

brownrodster

Well-Known Member
Actually it's the TSA (transportation security authority) and they require that the doors be shut and locked when you are not in immediate control of the vehicle. They can fine you 10,000$ for each package in your truck if they find it unattended with a door open.

Yes, I always close my bulkhead door. Even if I have to deliver to 5 or more houses on one or two blocks.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
"Actually it's the TSA (transportation security authority) and they require that the doors be shut and locked..."


Roadster, can you provide a link to that requirement from the Transportation Security Administration? Or are you just forwarding what your supervisor told you?

It's an honest question. I've searched their site, but cannot find that requirement. It could be there, and if it is, I'd like to read it.

http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
trpinkl

I agree with what you said. The main reason I put perfect in bold was to highlight the fact that perfection is the dream. But we do have to "dream the dream". Anything less may not get us a step closer to "perfection"!!! It does have to start somewhere, and management has to pick up the ball first and make it happen. I tried to put the "perfect" center in order. This is why I have "treat your people with respect and follow the contract in the first position". and if you are more concerned about safety - your people will see that also. If you work hard on the first 2 things everything else will follow.

BUT - a good management team will strive to LISTEN to your concerns....(respect) and work hard to fix the issues such as PAS.

We have all seen the management folks that are "successful" by climbing on who ever gets in there way... I have also seen the really successful management folks that care more about the company and the people in the company, especially the folks that work for them, than by how much money or how many promotions they will get.

The funny thing is if you really do care and follow the golden rules you will eventually get all the things you need or want. I have seen it over and over again in my career and in my life.

In 36 years, I have also seen the bad apples tumble. They will get what they deserve.
 

upsdude

Well-Known Member
upsdude, Your manager sounds like a great leader and possible friend. It's a shame he wasn't cloned. How long was he your manager and did he ever get promoted to Division Manager or higher?

Yes he was a great leader. He did get promoted to dm but left the company about 5 years ago for health reasons.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Personally I love to see these young guys out there burning up the routes and doing the work of two men. Have at it!
I'm closer to the end of my career than the beginning, so I'm more concerned with retirement and the state of my pension fund. The way I see it, these runners are much more cost effective for the company than an old milkman like myself, and consequently do a lot more to keep UPS profitable. Continued high profits = continued large contributions to my pension fund = big fat retirement check for me :happy2:.
In the meantime, they make it much easier to get a split taken off every morning (I find that much smoother than having them come get it later), as the dispatch sup knows right where to go with it. Every morning I cheer them on!

When I'm sitting in my beach chair sipping a pina colada, I'll raise a toast to all those runners and gunners who made it possible.
 

Hangingon

Well-Known Member
Even better if they burn out in 9 or 10 years. Once they slow down or get hurt, it'll be time to get rid of them and bring in a fresh crop of gunners. Then the pension funds are even better off since we won't have to worry about them taking a 25 and out option.
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
As a cover "runner", its nice to have milker's routes to feed off
I'm always home to watch the Simpsons at 5pm

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browniehound

Well-Known Member
The best performing drivers I have observed and worked with over the years, did the job by the methods, had a smooth routine and knew their routes inside and out. The driver may not have run scratch on their route, but were acceptable performers and more importantly worked safely and serviced their customers.

Any center management team, would have their drivers follow the methods, be safe and take care of the customers, than have drivers underallowed, due to running and not following methods or servicing the customers. Just creates more work for everyone, the regular driver and customer issues that might have to be resolved.

As far as "runners" and "milkers", well neither employee is doing the job as it should be done.

Just my thoughts and experience at UPS.


Chan,
I think that is the best description on how a driver should perform his or her job at UPS. I've never read a more clearer post on how our jobs at UPS should be performed.

As you stated, its all about the methods Chan.

I've said this before. Follow the methods and everything you do will be acceptable.

I've never witnessed a driver that follows the methods hour after hour and been deemed a "bad driver"

UPS gives us the tools to do the job as how they want it be done. If you follow these methods, I believe you have one of the greatest jobs in America!

I'm serious here! Unless you are an MD or a world renowned physicist, or marketing executive, we as UPS drivers are doing very well compared to the rest of blue collar America.

Just think of the retirement we might enjoy!!!! This may be wishful thinking, but there is some validitity to it. 5g's from our pension. 1.5g's from S.S., on top of that what we saved and grew for 30 years in our 401k and we are talking more money than I made while I was working. Or, much more money that I could spend in my life.

Thanks for listening to my rant Guys and Gals!
Brownie
 

ol'browneye

Well-Known Member
I have to say, I was a runner when I started driving. They use to call me "Flash". I would set up my truck in the morning before work. I did take all my lunch but sometimes would find myself fixing my load if I was bored on lunch. The problem is , nobody ever told me any different, not even an older experienced driver. I WAS an "uninformed union employee" as someone posted earlier.


It took me a few years to figure it out. I was raised to do the very best job you can but finally realized at UPS that just gets you 10 more stops. Now, 21 years later, I just come in and do the job and go home. If I have too many stops, I just figure I'll be out late and make some extra money that day. I help other drivers if needed but I usually don't ask for help myself. I don't ever work off the clock and don't mind doing whatever it takes to get a pkg delivered, even if that means walking up a 100 yard driveway in the snow to make service. When they ask how many ECs I will have I say "Only 3 today!" I have been on my route for 13 years so I know my customers well and a few of the older, lonely ones like to chat. If I feel I've spent too much time visiting I count 5 or so minutes of lunch.


It's called INTEGRITY. If more employees had it, including many in management, UPS wouldn't have many of the problem we have today. I don't mean to preach because I am far from the perfect driver or the perfect person, but I do believe in an honest days work for an honest days pay. It just takes me a little longer these days! Like I tell my on-car supe, "Every day is different" Just because I have 80 stops two days in a row doesn't mean I will work the same amount of time both days!
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Even better if they burn out in 9 or 10 years. Once they slow down or get hurt, it'll be time to get rid of them and bring in a fresh crop of gunners. Then the pension funds are even better off since we won't have to worry about them taking a 25 and out option.
Well said! And don't forget the ones who get fired for roll aways and unavoidable accidents. They make the sacrifice so that the rest of us can survive and live the good life :wink2:. We should have something like a "Circle of Honor" just for them, with all their names and dates of service. Maybe call it the "Hall of Fallen Runners". Some gave all.....
 
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