Brown Tail

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by ups767mech, May 19, 2009.

  1. ups767mech

    ups767mech New Member

    This trailer might as well be brown tail. This is the same thing happening to UPS aircraft maintenance. Listen at about :39 seconds he even mentions UPS. He being the CEO of Haeco maintanence facility in China.

    Red Tail
  2. ups767mech

    ups767mech New Member

    Here is a link to the movie " The Red Tail" to be released soon

  3. ups767mech

    ups767mech New Member

    Amazing no comments surely suit and hoax have something to say
  4. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Good luck on that.
    I am concerned about the export of jobs overseas as well.
    Maybe the government will pass laws to restrict/discourage the obvious economic advantages of exporting jobs overseas.
  5. edd_tv

    edd_tv Cardboard picker upper

    i noticed that they have a store on their site, i wonder if they ship with us? i love to support indie film makers, but i believe that at one time the cafepress company that they use to sell their things shipped fed ex. thats a deal breaker...
  6. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I deliver Cafe Press stuff all the time.
  7. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Yeah! Slumdog Millionaire was a good movie.
  8. BadHABITS

    BadHABITS New Member

    House OKs safety plan for overseas aircraft work
    The Associated Press.

    I don't want to see any US jobs go overseas, it just pisses me off when I watch an aircraft maintenance/technician sit and sleep in their truck! Most are not held accountable for any rules/methods at UPS and many are arrogant and could care less about helping anyone on the ramp. Call it miss-management if you want but it seems to be the same at all gateways or airhubs... :dissapointed:
  9. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Well, I've got a different take on this. Note, I said I. This shouldn't be taken as a blanket statement about EVERYONE and EVERYPLACE! Geez, seems I always have to clarify my posts from now on because I get jumped on with, "It's not that way HERE!". "That's not what we do HERE!".

    Being on sleeper team, we always had pretty good time with plane mechs in Louky. We'd have down time once a week there and took some break in lunch room across from dispatch. Many of them would too. Many times during holidays, they would all bring in pot luck stuff for lunches or dinners and have us share(because the mech side of the company "forgot" to provide something). Pretty good stuff too.

    They'd share some of their stories with us, most dealing with how the company treated them as merely "tire-kickers", sending most major work to China. All the ones we talked to wanted to do more but company would not let them or train them.

    That's all I know so ain't gonna comment on others situations or problems.
  10. Livin the Dream?

    Livin the Dream? Disillusioned UPSer



    Public company - sole responsibility is to the shareholder. Bottom line only. You may like it, hate it, but it is what it is.

    Public company can pay someone here $90/hour for a task, or send it overseas for $15 / hour. It would be fiscally irresponsible for a company NOT to make that choice.

    There is no way to stop this, other than to have US employees accept less money for the same task. Again, it is a fact, not opinion - simple economics (page one I think)

    Please notice I don't have an opinion here. Not what is right, wrong, ethical, etc.
  11. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Our company is not losing money we are still making profits even in these down times. No reason to shift our work overseas! I worked at O'Hare here for ups for 5 years as a part timer. Ups wanted us part timers to push the planes out nightly. We were making $8 an hour to start and they wanted us to do this.

    Who would you trust to push a plane out more a package handler making $8 an hour or a mechanic that has the experience?

    If anything goes wrong with any of these air crafts while in flight we will have a huge problem on our hands. How will ups explain that the reason one of our planes crashed in to a school or in to a subdivision of homes killing people was to save a dollar?
  12. Livin the Dream?

    Livin the Dream? Disillusioned UPSer

    Because it is the fiscally responsible corporate thing to do for a public company. A private company could make that moral choice. A public company cannot.

    Don't get me wrong - I wish it wasn't happening - but as long as work is cheaper elsewhere, work will go elsewhere. Has nothing to do with UPS specifically.

    You state "...Our company is not losing money we are still making profits even in these down times. No reason to shift our work overseas!..."

    The first sentence is completely irrelevant. The second sentence is completely incorrect. (Please note - I am setting you up)
  13. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    I SAID I WAS ONLY TALKING ABOUT ME...oh, I get it. You're making a joke.

    I laugh whenever you come back that way, Livin. :happy-very:
  14. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    I agree with what you're saying about answering to the shareholders. Yer right that decisions have to be made like this--outsourcing--whether we like it or not, whether we agree with it or not. That's the way it is with these and THIS pubic (or is that public?) company.

    To all others that say the airplane mechs are lazy or don't wanna do anything, well, I see different. We, oh, here I go again, I mean, I cop an attitude too when it comes to my job. "Only work as directed", "Only do the job I was asked to do", "Don't do any thinking, we'll think for you", (yes, some goofball supe told me that yrs ago), etc. Whadya expect?
  15. Livin the Dream?

    Livin the Dream? Disillusioned UPSer

    Well, that's not what we do here.....
  16. slantnosechevy

    slantnosechevy Active Member

    Our problem isn't so much the shareholders as it is the percentage required number of outside board members. Board members who sit on multple company board's are the major reason for the high salaries and bonuses paid to the CEOs and the rest of the executive board which is draining these companies dry not to mention the tax payer in the form of bailouts. Thankfully UPS was smart with their money in the past which has made them very profitable. Being cash solvent before the sale is one reason they are still successful despite the rising costs of doing business. It takes money to make money. I had heard that under Eskew there were discussions on buying back the public stock. Don't see it happing at the present.
  17. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    The Chinese are world famous for their airline safety records, which are abysmal. They are also great at producing, using, and selling counterfeit aircraft parts, many of which need a metallurgist to identify as fakes. It's bad enough to have pirated DVD's and fake watches, but I don't want to fly in anything built or maintained in China.

    If you were going to take a 10,000 mile overseas flight, would you like your aircraft mechanic to be an experienced union member, or some guy making $3.00 per hour who was a farmer 2 years ago?
  18. worldwide

    worldwide Active Member

    Does it automatically mean that work done at this facility is subpar or that the quality is less than what is done at a US based facility?

    I'm curious if there are any figures available from the NTSB that cites any air crashes/accidents in the US that were due to shoddy/illegal work done outside the US. If you know of any, I'd like to learn more about them.

    It would also be interesting to look at any air crashes/accidents in the US that were caused by work done by US repair shops. If there are any, what does that say about the quality of the work done here in the US?
  19. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    That doesn't automatically mean that out-sourced work is sub-par, but considering the fact that most repair facilities use freshly-trained, non-union labor that gets paid about half the going rate, safety seems to rank behind saving money. How many highly experienced aircraft mechanics do you think China has? Based on their domestic safety record, they don't do a very good job.

    The ValuJet crash in the Everglades a few years ago is a perfect example of out-sourced US work causing a tragedy. The repair station that did the work was shut-down after that incident. Please note that it was a non-union shop that did the work. All of the other repair stations in the US that I'm aware of are also non-union, and specialize in hiring fresh out of A&P school at about $15.00 per hour. Both UPS and FedEx use such facilities extensively, taking work away from their own mechanics.

    The Chinese are famous for cutting corners in the pursuit of a profit. It's much more culturally acceptable (and excusable) to try and pull a fast one even if it means a critical aircraft part failure that causes a crash. I've spent enough time there to know. They haven't figured out yet that there are some industries where producing a product of absolute quality is essential (such as the aircraft industry).

    Every once in awhile, the Chinese government trots out a few corrupt businessmen and women, convicts them, executes them, and then trumpets the "fact" that the problem has been solved. Not so. For every melamine-lacing or lead paint applying manager who was shot, there are thousands of others still getting away with it. Anyone remember the tainted medication last year(made in China) that killed a bunch of people in this country?

    A few years back, the FAA uncovered a rash of inferior aircraft parts that the Chinese were trying to market here as legitimate. If they had actually made it onto an aircraft, there would have been a lot of dead passengers and downed airplanes.

  20. worldwide

    worldwide Active Member

    Are you opposed to work outsourced to companies outside the US as well as outsourced to US companies that are non-union? In other words, are you saying that only union shops based in the US can perform this type of work safely? If so, I disagree.

    The following info is from Wikipedia:
    "The NTSB placed fault for ValuJet Flight 592 on three parties: SabreTech, for illegally transporting dangerous materials aboard a commercial aircraft, improperly labeling them, and not providing safety equipment to ship them; ValuJet, for not properly supervising SabreTech; and the FAA, for not properly supervising ValuJet and not requiring active fire suppression equipment in this cargo compartment.

    In 1997, a federal grand jury charged SabreTech with mishandling hazardous materials, failing to train its employees on proper handling of hazardous materials, conspiracy and making false statements. SabreTech's maintenance supervisor, Daniel Gonzalez, and two mechanics who worked on the plane, Eugene Florence and Mauro Valenzuela, were charged with conspiracy and making false statements. Two years later, having been found guilty on the mishandling hazardous materials and improper training charges, SabreTech was fined $2 million and ordered to pay $9 million in restitution. Gonzalez and Florence were acquitted on all charges, while Valenzuela failed to appear and is currently missing. In December 2008, the EPA announced a web site to search for "environmental fugitives," highlighting Mauro Valenzuela as a specific target."

    I could not find any information that indicated the crash was due in any part to SabreTech being union or non-union.

    The worst crash in US history (American Airlines Flight 191) was attributable to damage to the left wing engine pylon that occurred during an earlier engine change at American Airlines's aircraft maintenance facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The DC-10 itself acquired a bad reputation, but ironically it was often caused by poor maintenance procedures, and not design flaws. I beleive that the AA mechanics are represented by the Transport Workers Union but please correct me if I am mistaken.

    My point is that I have not been able to find any data that indicates any air crashes were due a firms status as a union or non-union shop, whether located in the US or outside the US. People cutting corners, taking shortcuts, purposely being dishonest or simply making mistakes caused these accidents; not whether the shops were union or non-union or if the work was done in the US or some other country.