Covid vaccine.

tadpole

Well-Known Member
What I'm taking away from your last couple posts is - "Critical thinking is dangerous" And "No need to look into it - just trust us".

Let me share something about my background. I was born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They taught me that Joseph Smith saw angels, who told him where to find golden plates that were buried, and those plates gave an account of was Jesus coming to the ancient Americas. When I was young, I was taught to say "I believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet" and "I know that this church is the only true church". They teach their members never to look into "anti-Mormon literature". Well I want to know the truth, so I want to see all the arguments being made, so I can make up my own mind. It seemed like they were afraid of the truth, afraid the members might do their own research, and learn they were being lied to.

Anyway, if you are looking to be the most learned, wise person you can... you ought to look into things and question everything. It goes without saying you shouldn't trust everything you read.
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
What I'm taking away from your last couple posts is - "Critical thinking is dangerous" And "No need to look into it - just trust us".

Let me share something about my background. I was born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They taught me that Joseph Smith saw angels, who told him where to find golden plates that were buried, and those plates gave an account of was Jesus coming to the ancient Americas. When I was young, I was taught to say "I believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet" and "I know that this church is the only true church". They teach their members never to look into "anti-Mormon literature". Well I want to know the truth, so I want to see all the arguments being made, so I can make up my own mind. It seemed like they were afraid of the truth, afraid the members might do their own research, and learn they were being lied to.

Anyway, if you are looking to be the most learned, wise person you can... you ought to look into things and question everything. It goes without saying you shouldn't trust everything you read.
Bravo!
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
What I'm taking away from your last couple posts is - "Critical thinking is dangerous" And "No need to look into it - just trust us".

Let me share something about my background. I was born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They taught me that Joseph Smith saw angels, who told him where to find golden plates that were buried, and those plates gave an account of was Jesus coming to the ancient Americas. When I was young, I was taught to say "I believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet" and "I know that this church is the only true church". They teach their members never to look into "anti-Mormon literature". Well I want to know the truth, so I want to see all the arguments being made, so I can make up my own mind. It seemed like they were afraid of the truth, afraid the members might do their own research, and learn they were being lied to.

Anyway, if you are looking to be the most learned, wise person you can... you ought to look into things and question everything. It goes without saying you shouldn't trust everything you read.
You are comparing faith to science which is an apples-to-oranges comparison.
I agree that we shouldn’t just blindly trust everything we read. The biggest reason for this, especially in the Google age, is something called confirmation bias. If I am already vaccine hesitant, I can get on Google or Youtube and find any number of articles that will confirm my pre-existing bias. That isn’t ”research.” VAERS is a perfect example, antivaxxers use it to confirm their own biases without even understanding what it actually is. I did not go to medical school and I’m not a doctor or an immunologist or a virologist so it would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I can get on Google for 20 minutes and “discover” some hidden, secret truth that the established medical community had somehow overlooked. What I wound up doing…was to ask my doctor. I also asked the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and the three RN’s who live on my route what their opinion was of the vaccine. They all got the shot, and told me that I should also get the shot, wear a mask, and socially distance as much as possible. So rather than buy into conspiracy theories or assume that I knew more than they did, I took their advice.
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
What I wound up doing…was to ask my doctor. I also asked the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and the three RN’s who live on my route what their opinion was of the vaccine. They all got the shot, and told me that I should also get the shot, wear a mask, and socially distance
What, exactly, did you think they were going to say?
If it is discovered they aren't pimping the narrative they could be black balled from their medical field.
 

Dumbo

Well-Known Member
You are comparing faith to science which is an apples-to-oranges comparison.
I agree that we shouldn’t just blindly trust everything we read. The biggest reason for this, especially in the Google age, is something called confirmation bias. If I am already vaccine hesitant, I can get on Google or Youtube and find any number of articles that will confirm my pre-existing bias. That isn’t ”research.” VAERS is a perfect example, antivaxxers use it to confirm their own biases without even understanding what it actually is. I did not go to medical school and I’m not a doctor or an immunologist or a virologist so it would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I can get on Google for 20 minutes and “discover” some hidden, secret truth that the established medical community had somehow overlooked. What I wound up doing…was to ask my doctor. I also asked the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and the three RN’s who live on my route what their opinion was of the vaccine. They all got the shot, and told me that I should also get the shot, wear a mask, and socially distance as much as possible. So rather than buy into conspiracy theories or assume that I knew more than they did, I took their advice.
Science has been politicized. That's a fact. If it doesn't come from Fauci or mainstream media then it's considered a conspiracy theory.

Don't you even see the pattern regarding all of these things that are "conspiracy" that end up being proven true all along? It's almost every week now. It was the Russia thing, it was vaccines under trump were bad, now they are good, it was no mask, then mask, the vaccine and no mask, now vaccine and mask. It was the Wuhan Lab conspiracy, it just keeps going and going. So you can't even claim your beliefs are based on science, because real science is silenced and they install pop culture or mainstream approved doctors and scientists to push a narrative.

It's a proven fact that Dr. Monroe who created the mRNA vaccine has a 3 hour long video that he points out the science and very technical explanations on why his own research was dangerous. He's been silenced and cancelled now. That's proven. There are countless doctors who tried to come out against the vaccine, and who strongly encouraged therapeutics. They were threatened with termination and told only the vaccine will they be allowed to recommend. Those videos were all over YouTube. That's all proven and true.

How can you not see that you live in a land of propaganda? It's a fact and proven that the spike proteins cause wide spread inflammation throughout your body. Inflammation is the predecessor of almost all disease.

It's a fact and proven that there is a 99% percent chance you survive the virus.

It's a fact and proven that 80% percent of people with severe symptoms were vitamin D deficient (Dr. Rhonda Patrick had done multiple studies on this).

It's a fact and proven that the vast majority of all deaths were from obese people who had multiple underlying conditions such as heart problems, diabetes and smoking. Or they were older than the median age of actual death from everything. Thats proven.

You mentioned that the vaccine is known to still allow you to transmit but the whole point is that it keeps you out of the hospital or dead.

See above. It's proven and a fact that a huge chunk of people don't even know they have it. The other vast majority will have mild sinus infection type symptoms.

So if it's true and proven that statistically you have an extremely slim chance of getting sick l to any major level without the vaccine, why would you take the vaccine? Why is it NOW you trust Johnson and Johnson, Pzifer and the others. They are well known for causing opioid epidemics, and so many of their products are banned in other countries. Like J and J baby powder. Just this month they have lost 3 major cases involving hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Yet now we shouldn't question big pharma because that's science? Give me a break. These companies are responsible for more death than covid could dream of.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Science has been politicized. That's a fact. If it doesn't come from Fauci or mainstream media then it's considered a conspiracy theory.

Don't you even see the pattern regarding all of these things that are "conspiracy" that end up being proven true all along? It's almost every week now. It was the Russia thing, it was vaccines under trump were bad, now they are good, it was no mask, then mask, the vaccine and no mask, now vaccine and mask. It was the Wuhan Lab conspiracy, it just keeps going and going. So you can't even claim your beliefs are based on science, because real science is silenced and they install pop culture or mainstream approved doctors and scientists to push a narrative.

It's a proven fact that Dr. Monroe who created the mRNA vaccine has a 3 hour long video that he points out the science and very technical explanations on why his own research was dangerous. He's been silenced and cancelled now. That's proven. There are countless doctors who tried to come out against the vaccine, and who strongly encouraged therapeutics. They were threatened with termination and told only the vaccine will they be allowed to recommend. Those videos were all over YouTube. That's all proven and true.

How can you not see that you live in a land of propaganda? It's a fact and proven that the spike proteins cause wide spread inflammation throughout your body. Inflammation is the predecessor of almost all disease.

It's a fact and proven that there is a 99% percent chance you survive the virus.

It's a fact and proven that 80% percent of people with severe symptoms were vitamin D deficient (Dr. Rhonda Patrick had done multiple studies on this).

It's a fact and proven that the vast majority of all deaths were from obese people who had multiple underlying conditions such as heart problems, diabetes and smoking. Or they were older than the median age of actual death from everything. Thats proven.

You mentioned that the vaccine is known to still allow you to transmit but the whole point is that it keeps you out of the hospital or dead.

See above. It's proven and a fact that a huge chunk of people don't even know they have it. The other vast majority will have mild sinus infection type symptoms.

So if it's true and proven that statistically you have an extremely slim chance of getting sick l to any major level without the vaccine, why would you take the vaccine? Why is it NOW you trust Johnson and Johnson, Pzifer and the others. They are well known for causing opioid epidemics, and so many of their products are banned in other countries. Like J and J baby powder. Just this month they have lost 3 major cases involving hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. Yet now we shouldn't question big pharma because that's science? Give me a break. These companies are responsible for more death than covid could dream of.
Yes, the majority of deaths were in the elderly or people with co-morbidities. If you think they dont matter thats your opinion. Both my wife and I have pre existing conditions, so it does matter to me. But death isn’t the only negative outcome. There are also people who suffered profound, permanent damage to their lungs or their kidneys.
 

tadpole

Well-Known Member
You are comparing faith to science which is an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Critical thinking serves us well in all areas.

I agree that we shouldn’t just blindly trust everything we read. The biggest reason for this, especially in the Google age, is something called confirmation bias. If I am already vaccine hesitant, I can get on Google or Youtube and find any number of articles that will confirm my pre-existing bias. That isn’t ”research.” VAERS is a perfect example, antivaxxers use it to confirm their own biases without even understanding what it actually is.
I agree about confirmation bias. We all should strive to continually reevaluate what we believe as we are exposed to new ideas, data, etc.
We can't conclude that any of the VAERS reports prove the vaccine creates injuries. We also can't conclude that every vaccine injury has been recorded on VAERS.
I did not go to medical school and I’m not a doctor or an immunologist or a virologist so it would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I can get on Google for 20 minutes and “discover” some hidden, secret truth that the established medical community had somehow overlooked. What I wound up doing…was to ask my doctor. I also asked the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and the three RN’s who live on my route what their opinion was of the vaccine. They all got the shot, and told me that I should also get the shot, wear a mask, and socially distance as much as possible. So rather than buy into conspiracy theories or assume that I knew more than they did, I took their advice.
Sounds like you used critical thinking to make a decision. Even though I came to a different conclusion, I can't fault you here.
I decided to not take the vaccine based on the risk/reward. It's possible that I'm way off, and I will regret not taking the vaccine, even die because of it. I accept the ramifications of my choice. Likewise, it's also possible that someone regrets their decision to take the vaccine, and succumbs to a vaccine injury. In either case, a valid decision was made and should be respected.
I did not go to medical school and I’m not a doctor or an immunologist or a virologist so it would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I can get on Google for 20 minutes and “discover” some hidden, secret truth that the established medical community had somehow overlooked. What I wound up doing…was to ask my doctor. I also asked the surgeon, the anesthesiologist and the three RN’s who live on my route what their opinion was of the vaccine. They all got the shot, and told me that I should also get the shot, wear a mask, and socially distance as much as possible. So rather than buy into conspiracy theories or assume that I knew more than they did, I took their advice.
One thing I'd like to point out is that although the majority of scientists and doctors are supporting the vaccine, there are brilliant doctors and scientists out there who have valid concerns. We can either investigate these concerns, and learn one way or another if their concerns are legit... or we can censor them and call the doctors all quacks. Which path do you think leads to knowledge/truth?
 

DriveInDriѵeOut

Inordinately Right
Fox News, Qanon, OANN and the GOP are the ones pushing the antivaxx, anti-science, Covid-is-a-hoax theory. Not the Dems.
Democrats at the New York Slimes:
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Doubleparkedrunner

Well-Known Member
Fox News, Qanon, OANN and the GOP are the ones pushing the antivaxx, anti-science, Covid-is-a-hoax theory. Not the Dems.
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Doubleparkedrunner

Well-Known Member
Fox News, Qanon, OANN and the GOP are the ones pushing the antivaxx, anti-science, Covid-is-a-hoax theory. Not the Dems.
"The federal government's response to COVID and the White House's dispute with the FDA raises serious questions about whether or not the vaccine has become politicized," Governor Cuomo said. "Frankly, I'm not going to trust the federal government's opinion and I wouldn't recommend to New Yorkers based on the federal government's opinion. We're going to put together our own review committee headed by the Department of Health to review the vaccine, and I'm appointing a committee that is going to come up with a vaccine distribution and implementation plan on how we will do it. New York's response to COVID has been a model for this country, and we should also be the model vaccination program for the country."
 
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