Feeder Work Question

[tieguy]

1) I am not sure. It does look fully operational but there have been tech types there making sure it works. Now we are becoming just like FedEx where the customer has to put packages on multiple trailers. Makes me look like a complete idiot when I got them to switch by telling them they could just put everything on one trailer. They were having a problem mixing the priority with the ground for fedex and getting way to many complaints. Then throw in the DHL guy always asleep in their break room with me constantly in their ear telling them we could do better.

Someone at the top of that company wants to split the packages out and freight ship them wherever they are going. Thats why fdx was doing the same thing for them before.

Sounds like we helped them install some type of automated sort system and a drop ship to various ups buildings around the country.

We had one similar to what you describe. fdx trying to take one of our customers. fdx tells them they can line haul the loads directly to their buildings in chicago and utah (why utah I don't know) and improve on UPS's time in transit performance. So guess what . We now linehaul loads from the customer straight to chicago and utah to keep the business.

 

[tieguy]

"Moving Freight Faster Than Ever
UPS Freight improves transit times on 1,900 lanes in the western states.

And you thought UPS moved freight fast before. Well, guess what? We’re now faster than ever when it comes to transporting the heaviest of shipments.



UPS Freight has completed the final phase of its 2008 network enhancements, speeding up transit schedules on more than 1,900 traffic lanes in eight western states. Overall, some 12,000 lanes have been improved over the past year-and-a-half, offering faster service covering two-thirds of U.S. ZIP codes.



“UPS is on a path to create a combination of reliability, technology, and speed that no other competitor can match,” said UPS Freight President Jack Holmes. “Reducing transit times, guaranteeing deliveries, and using advanced tracking technology all combine to provide maximum value for our customers.”



The latest enhancements cut at least a day from transit times for shipments originating in service centers in Arizona, California, Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Oregon, and Washington. Specific enhancements include such lanes as Denver to Miami; Portland, OR, to Memphis, and Bakersfield, CA, to Cleveland, with all now falling under UPS Freight’s three-day delivery schedule.



In August, UPS Freight revised its network to establish two-day lanes from Chicago to Dallas, Boston to St. Louis, and Philadelphia to Miami. The enhancements also expanded the next-day footprint of UPS Freight to include Cincinnati to Memphis and Columbus, OH, to Charlotte.



Touting our freight services is one of the many Take Charge tips you can use to confidently recommend UPS and land quality sales leads. Remember, any size, any weight, any speed, anywhere; most shipments can go with familiar UPS processing and tracking and guarantees."


I wonder if like Tie said, the UPSF services were too good to pass up tailored to their business situation and needs.

linehauls from fdx promising faster transit times. We are making sure we stay competitive.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

linehauls from fdx promising faster transit times. We are making sure we stay competitive.

precisely

 

[over9five]

linehauls from fdx promising faster transit times. We are making sure we stay competitive.

Maybe, but it's at the cost of UPSers jobs. AV8 said that because of his urging that company to use UPS, at least one UPS feeder job was lost. This is NOT the way to promote sales leads.

Giving UPS a sales lead is a good way to give away your job. Make sure everyone knows. The job you save may be your own.

 

[tieguy]

Maybe, but it's at the cost of UPSers jobs. AV8 said that because of his urging that company to use UPS, at least one UPS feeder job was lost. This is NOT the way to promote sales leads.

Giving UPS a sales lead is a good way to give away your job. Make sure everyone knows. The job you save may be your own.

Over9 we are in a strange time competitively. In this case I suspect we are appeasing the customer and giving them what services they want. So it sounds like you have a situation where upsers are handling the packages at whatever hub and delivery points the packages go to. So it may be a good deal for those hubs but not the local one. If we don't appease the customer then no upser benifits. A lot of what is going on is really outside the realm of typical subcontracting issues since the customer decides what they want.

I'm really dissapointed though that we are doing such a crappy job of explaining it. AV8 clearly put a lot of time and effort into getting that business. The least we should do is explain to him the whys of what is going on. We have to be willing to explain what goes on in the business world if we are ever going to build any trust with our people.

 

[705red]

A lot of what is going on is really outside the realm of typical subcontracting issues since the customer decides what they want.

I didn't see any customers negotiating the contract between ups and the teamsters this last June and July.

Tie why cant our feeder drivers drive these trailers to straight from point a to point b?

Tomorrow is our monthly union meeting and i will be addressing this with the local in front of the members to get there take on it.

 

[tieguy]

I didn't see any customers negotiating the contract between ups and the teamsters this last June and July.

Tie why cant our feeder drivers drive these trailers to straight from point a to point b?

Tomorrow is our monthly union meeting and i will be addressing this with the local in front of the members to get there take on it.

Red,

organize the freight guys and they belong to the teamsters.

Piss the customer off and your work goes to someone else. Remember that when you stick your chest out tommorrow and tell everyone how you're going to bust the companys balls.

 

[705red]

Red,

organize the freight guys and they belong to the teamsters.

Piss the customer off and your work goes to someone else. Remember that when you stick your chest out tomorrow and tell everyone how you're going to bust the company's balls.

Tie freight is part of the teamsters, however upsf is not a division within small package. Why are they allowed to do our work?

Are you telling me that our feeder guys that have been doing this work are not capable of doing this?

Explain why our bd reps are selling this, don't tell us that the customers came up with this idea by them selves, somebody is pushing this.

 

[tieguy]

Tie freight is part of the teamsters, however upsf is not a division within small package. Why are they allowed to do our work?

Are you telling me that our feeder guys that have been doing this work are not capable of doing this?

Explain why our bd reps are selling this, don't tell us that the customers came up with this idea by them selves, somebody is pushing this.

Red,

I've already explained it. Customer tells us what they want. Av8 told us fdx was doing the same exact thing before we took the business so that tells you that the customer either got the idea from fdx or they told fdx what they wanted.I think guys like you that don't understand the complexities of the business we are in could end up costing us business. I'm kinda hoping you'll be a good barney fife and keep that bullet in your front pocket where it belongs.

 

[sortaisle]

I don't like the fact that they have our feeder guy sign the end of day for the freight guy. I think the union is doing a piss poor job keeping freight and feeder separate. I'm beginning to believe that the union is just happy that they got the upsf contract and doesn't really care one way or the other.

 

[sortaisle]

What I really want to know is when the union sent us a voting ballot for the contract, we didn't get the chance to see the rider or the addendum. I'm very disappointed about how this contract has turned out. I voted no based off of not having any information other than the shiny, carefully laid out brochure stating the good of the contract. They held the Central States pension over our heads over hear saying that the government was going to start handling it, but if we vote yes then UPS would inject untold millions into the fund and make it right. I have my doubts about that. Am I the only one who was clueless about the rider and addendum's?

 

[Hangingon]

Nevermind.

 

[av8torntn]

Red,

I've already explained it. Customer tells us what they want. Av8 told us fdx was doing the same exact thing before we took the business so that tells you that the customer either got the idea from fdx or they told fdx what they wanted.

Not exactly. I just assumed being in Memphis that everyone understood how Fed Ex does things. At the big accounts and they have plenty here. Fedex Ground goes on one trailer. Fedex Express goes on another trailer. For the largest accounts like this one Fedex Express overnight goes on one trailer and Fedex Express two day would go on another.

Being a good little UPSer and doing as I have always been told I just tried to leverage our positives. One my relationship with the customer. They had even brought some big shot out to the warehouse to meet me. I would tell them they could load all packages on one trailer and not have to worry about mixing up ground with overnight or two day. They did not come up with this zone skipping thing but to the credit of UPS the system they put in so far seems to work very well for the customer. Their warehouse guys that load the trailers are temps however and it will not be long before things start to get loaded on the wrong trailers and they will likely be just as upset with us as well.

Anyhow sorry for the confusion guys. I hope that explained what the other guys were doing.

 

[705red]

Red,

I've already explained it. Customer tells us what they want. Av8 told us fdx was doing the same exact thing before we took the business so that tells you that the customer either got the idea from fdx or they told fdx what they wanted.I think guys like you that don't understand the complexities of the business we are in could end up costing us business. I'm kinda hoping you'll be a good barney fife and keep that bullet in your front pocket where it belongs.

Ups ans upsf are two different companies and do not address the same concerns of the customer. the only person that could talk a customer into doing it this way would be bd.

Now you still have not answered why our feeder drivers can not make this drive from point a to b.

 

[705red]

Not exactly. I just assumed being in Memphis that everyone understood how Fed Ex does things. At the big accounts and they have plenty here. Fedex Ground goes on one trailer. Fedex Express goes on another trailer. For the largest accounts like this one Fedex Express overnight goes on one trailer and Fedex Express two day would go on another.

Being a good little UPSer and doing as I have always been told I just tried to leverage our positives. One my relationship with the customer. They had even brought some big shot out to the warehouse to meet me. I would tell them they could load all packages on one trailer and not have to worry about mixing up ground with overnight or two day. They did not come up with this zone skipping thing but to the credit of UPS the system they put in so far seems to work very well for the customer. Their warehouse guys that load the trailers are temps however and it will not be long before things start to get loaded on the wrong trailers and they will likely be just as upset with us as well.

Anyhow sorry for the confusion guys. I hope that explained what the other guys were doing.

Dont be sorry, there was no confusion everyone knows that 1 ups driver does it all and fedex takes several. I brought this up during our ups contract training this morning and our subcontracting language removed the word ups to bargaining unit work in its place and should not be a prorblem for us. Whats your subcontracting language say?

 

[av8torntn]

Whats your subcontracting language say?

For the purpose of preserving work and job opportunities for the employees covered by this agreement the employer agrees that no work or services of the kind type or nature including new operations ....... unless otherwise provided in this agreement. The employer may not subcontract work in any classification for the purpose of avoiding overtime. The employer may not subcontract work in any classification if any employee who normally performs such work is on layoff.

Ok now the hard part. I am far from an expert on the contract. What I see as relevant is that UPSF is not a party to our contract. We have employees not on lay off. We have employees who have not reached the 60 hour DOT max.

Am I correct in my thinking that since UPSF is not a party to our contract this would be sub contracting? Am I correct in my thinking that since we have employees on layoff this sub contracting would be in violation of the contract? Am I correct in my thinking that even if no one was on layoff if drivers had hours available this would still be in violation of the contract?

Well according to the local I may not be correct. The bottom line to me is that I drive a truck and if UPS is hiring someone else to drive a truck it sure looks like subcontracting.

Ok what if the customer requested that they be able to load trailers direct to other hubs for a reduced shipping rate? If our sales force is setting this service up for them why is this still not subcontracting. This in my limited knowledge of UPS ways appears to be the sticking point here. Why can our driver who are trained not do this work. I could maybe see if everyone was working some type of grace period to allow UPS to train new drivers and obtain new equipment. Honestly the more I get ran around with this the angrier I get. OK sorry to vent.

What if it is UPS supply chain logistics that is hiring UPSF to pull these loads to other hubs? As far as I can tell they are not a party to our contract.

Well after losing half my customers last week this week should be interesting.

 

[westsideworma]

I'm failing to see the confusion here

"One of my CPU customers processes about 3000 UPS ground packages every day..."

Seems pretty cut and dry to me....UPS ground packages are the small package divisions business. If the package carries a UPS Ground world ship label with a 1Z number and the 03 service level in said number then that's where it goes. I'm not on anyones side here but it seems to me, if a UPS small package employee was expected to sign the 3000 pcs pick up/end of day then it better be in that trailer....otherwise why is he signing for something he didn't do. We're asking him to lie. Furthermore, if they shipped that package with UPS ground why is it going to UPSF? If they wanted to use UPSF it should have been explained that they are two separate entities at the time the lead was in discussion.

Tie I understand what you're saying, but in that case our BD/IE/SCS/whoever didn't explain our procedures/operations to the customer correctly. I was always told that UPSF would NOT process UPS package division's volume. This is a blatant farce of that understanding.

 

[alister]

Tie freight is part of the teamsters, however upsf is not a division within small package. Why are they allowed to do our work?

Are you telling me that our feeder guys that have been doing this work are not capable of doing this?

Explain why our bd reps are selling this, don't tell us that the customers came up with this idea by them selves, somebody is pushing this.

Red, I hate to tell you but its not your work until the customer decides it is. The customer is allowed to zone ship if they want. they can either do it in an in house solution keeping it in the unions hands or they can let some or all of it done by another company that may be union company (seldom) or may not union company (most cases) . The union still gets its dues if they allow ups to keep this in house and they lose dues if they resist ups and the customer goes with another company. The union really likes its money so i assume they will allow ups to keep this in an in house solution. and again just to restate this, its the customers packages and they deices how it works. if you don't believe this then tell a customer that ships all next day air they have to ship every thing ground because its taking feeder jobs away which is a teamsters job and gives it to a pilot who is not a teamster. I bet you would get better backing from the teamsters on this subject.

 

[alister]

I'm failing to see the confusion here

"One of my CPU customers processes about 3000 UPS ground packages every day..."

Seems pretty cut and dry to me....UPS ground packages are the small package divisions business. If the package carries a UPS Ground world ship label with a 1Z number and the 03 service level in said number then that's where it goes. I'm not on anyones side here but it seems to me, if a UPS small package employee was expected to sign the 3000 pcs pick up/end of day then it better be in that trailer....otherwise why is he signing for something he didn't do. We're asking him to lie. Furthermore, if they shipped that package with UPS ground why is it going to UPSF? If they wanted to use UPSF it should have been explained that they are two separate entities at the time the lead was in discussion.

Tie I understand what you're saying, but in that case our BD/IE/SCS/whoever didn't explain our procedures/operations to the customer correctly. I was always told that UPSF would NOT process UPS package division's volume. This is a blatant farce of that understanding.

They are not handling a ups small package. Thank of it this way, customer calls and says they want a skid of freight shipped from "a" to "b". "b" just happens to be a ups location in another state. This is a freight shipment until the skid gets to "b". "b" then accepts the shipment and they become ups small packages.

as an example, Lets say you pick up a 70 lbs next day air package going cross country, now lets say when they deliver the package the person there opens the package and hands the driver 70 1 lbs ground package with 1zs on them already as a pickup stop. total shipment for the 70 "2day air packs" is 960 doing it this way. It would have cost the costumer $1675 to ship 70 1 lbs 2nd day air packages cross country from zip 10001 to 97001. This saved the customer $715 dollars in shipping fess. Are you going to tell the customer he cant do that?

 

[705red]

For the purpose of preserving work and job opportunities for the employees covered by this agreement the employer agrees that no work or services of the kind type or nature including new operations ....... unless otherwise provided in this agreement. The employer may not subcontract work in any classification for the purpose of avoiding overtime. The employer may not subcontract work in any classification if any employee who normally performs such work is on layoff.

Ok now the hard part. I am far from an expert on the contract. What I see as relevant is that UPSF is not a party to our contract. We have employees not on lay off. We have employees who have not reached the 60 hour DOT max.

Am I correct in my thinking that since UPSF is not a party to our contract this would be sub contracting? Am I correct in my thinking that since we have employees on layoff this sub contracting would be in violation of the contract? Am I correct in my thinking that even if no one was on layoff if drivers had hours available this would still be in violation of the contract?

Well according to the local I may not be correct. The bottom line to me is that I drive a truck and if UPS is hiring someone else to drive a truck it sure looks like subcontracting.

I agree 100% If you have employees available they should do the work, if you have employees on lay off they should do the work. How would freight feel if we started doing their work and they were than laid off?



Ok what if the customer requested that they be able to load trailers direct to other hubs for a reduced shipping rate? If our sales force is setting this service up for them why is this still not subcontracting. This in my limited knowledge of UPS ways appears to be the sticking point here. Why can our driver who are trained not do this work. I could maybe see if everyone was working some type of grace period to allow UPS to train new drivers and obtain new equipment. Honestly the more I get ran around with this the angrier I get. OK sorry to vent.

What if it is UPS supply chain logistics that is hiring UPSF to pull these loads to other hubs? As far as I can tell they are not a party to our contract.

Well after losing half my customers last week this week should be interesting.

I think it will get worse before it gets better, i just saw a commercial were mullet boy drwaing on his whiteboard saying that one ups driver can do air, ground and freight. Seems like we could have a war starting here over this.