Feeder Work Question

[BrownSuit]

It's also important to note who is delivering these packages on the end? As was mentioned earlier, we gained this volume. I guarantee you it's not freight drivers driving up to a house.

So Red and others are going to jeopardize a dozen Package Car drivers jobs and the potential for additional routes because of new volume, because they don't like how we have been able to help our customers process their shipments.

 

[av8torntn]

Red isn't entirely off base here, it sounds like somebody from BD selling the customer on SCS and UPS integrating their operations to allow for the most economical option for the customer.

What isn't happening here is outsourcing or subcontracting. Either way a Union UPS Driver is hauling the goods out of the facility. No where in the section of the contract that I saw did it say that it had to be the same business unit that touched the packages.

The only thing that is wrong that I'm seeing is not being clear with the feeders about what happened to the volume, threatening the Freight drivers for taking with the Feeder drivers, and not allowing the Feeder driver to inspect the contents of his truck. The later I don't think would have happened if the Feeder hadn't made such a big deal about the volume.

No I just did not feel comfortable signing for packages that I knew were not being picked up. To be clear the customer had no problem it became a problem with UPS when I questioned what was going on. I have learned in my years at UPS to make sure that I am clear with what they want.

There likely is job loss here, but it's do to technology (somebody mentioned the belts sorting before it gets to the hub) and not due to sub-contracting. The technology is where the real cost savings comes into effect.

So my question is are you going to have it put into the contract that our customers can't upgrade technology and enjoy cost savings and save UPS?


I wouldn't push it with the customer, if a driver discusses this with the customer and tries to tell them not to do it, refuses to pick-up, or suggests shipping with another company, etc. You should should expect to be written up as soon as the customer mentions it.

I never would push it with the customer. Our customers provide my income ultimately.

By doing so you are jeopardizing your job that you have and your 401 (k) if you invest in stock. As long as the business is going between business units, your job is safe. The second we lose the business because somebody is hot under the collar and has loose lips, expect people to lose jobs, union jobs, good paying union jobs.

 

[alister]

I believe that them asking you to sign for packages that was not on your trailer was a procedural problem. You shouldn't have to sign for packages that your not picking up and i assume that this will be fixed if brought to your feeder management attention. Most likely the customer is still getting used to the new system.

 

[av8torntn]

av8torntn most of this volume was going through FedEx (or another carrier) right? so we now have 3,000 more packages a day than we used to right?

Correct

Well first of all, i would like to thank you. Seeing how the economy is going and how much volume we are off compared to a year ago and still dropping, you may have helped save my job and many others.

No thanks necessary. I enjoy my job and I feel we do a better job than the other guys and I want all the business to include these packages. I feel it is a part of my job to help the business grow. That is UPS not UPS freight. I know i have tunnel vision.

I am sorry your district has lost a feeder driver. I hope the economy will change course and he gets his job back, but you really need to know that this sales lead has helped save at least 10 packages drivers jobs and at least 6 part time employees jobs if not more. There are very few package car drivers that deliver 300 packages a day in non peak volume. so this one sales lead has help 10 other package drivers to keep their jobs. Maybe one of them will be able to help your district back by submitting another sales lead.

We are down about fifteen jobs this year.

 

[705red]

It's also important to note who is delivering these packages on the end? As was mentioned earlier, we gained this volume. I guarantee you it's not freight drivers driving up to a house.

So Red and others are going to jeopardize a dozen Package Car drivers jobs and the potential for additional routes because of new volume, because they don't like how we have been able to help our customers process their shipments.

Ok lets just look at it for a minute, this customer is shipping 3,000 pcs, lets say to chicago. Now lets say we have 2,000 package car drivers in the chicago area, now a little over 1 package per driver. Now my calculater is not broken and does add properly so i fail to see how ups can eliminate package car drivers over, lets just say 100 pcs in my center alone.

The Union recognizes that the Employer is in direct competition with the United States Postal Service and other firms engaging in the
distribution of express letter, parcel express, parcel delivery, and freight, both air and surface. In order to meet that competition and
thereby protect and, if possible, increase the number of bargaining unit jobs, it is agreed that any provisions in this Agreement to the​

contrary notwithstanding, the Employer:

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]

Section 1.​

(a) may use substitute means of transportation (such as airplane, helicopter, ship or T.O.friend.C.) in its operations; provided, however,
that no feeder driver​

​

​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]with more than three (3) years of seniority in the feeder driver classification [/FONT][/FONT]in the employ of the Employer, as
of August 1, 1997 will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be laid off or displaced from a feeder classification as a result of a run being placed on the rail. However,
the Employer shall not be required to remove loads from the rail to provide work for employees whose ground loads were eliminated
or temporarily discontinued. Any claimed abuse of this Section by any of the Local Unions shall be subject to immediate review by the​

National Grievance Committee.
[/FONT][/FONT]

(b) may drop loaded or empty trailers at locations designated by it, its customers or consignees for customer or consignee loading or
unloading. It is understood that customers and consignees will​

​

​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]not move trailers for loading and/or unloading other than on their​

premises. It is further understood that dropping and picking up these trailers shall be done by members of the bargaining unit.

During peak season, the Employer will​

​

​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall ​

​

make every reasonable effort to use current UPS employees and hire a sufficient number
of employees to handle peak volume. After doing so, the Employer may use alternate means of transporting packages during peak
season and will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]utilize union carriers whenever possible. Plans to utilize outside carriers will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be reviewed and agreed with​

the Local Union. Such agreement will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]not be unreasonably withheld.

This is bits and pieces of article 26 competion from our locals contract, it is page 37 and 38 if you would like to see the whole article,http://www.teamsterslocal705.org/UPS-705 Final 2008 080608 FINAL.pdf
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[705red]

My concern here is i have seen this before maybe not on as big of a scale as ups, but we all remember Conway freight. What was it about 4 or 5 years ago they locked out their employees on labor day and moved all their business to a sister company ccx resulting in about 10,000 union jobs being eliminated.

If you cant see the writing on the wall then shame on you, ups has always said they don't make money on the ground service yet its their most common package.

We have seen dhl come into america thinking they could take over the world in small package only to realize there's not alot of money in ground, however we are able to service our customers by delivering grounds and airs together and picking up all of their small packages by the same driver.

As far as i know we are all just worker ants on this forum, hourlies that do the grunt work and management in every day operations. None of us are up the food chain enough to know exactly why our reps are selling this service but there has to be a good reason.

 

[alister]

Ok lets just look at it for a minute, this customer is shipping 3,000 pcs, lets say to chicago. Now lets say we have 2,000 package car drivers in the chicago area, now a little over 1 package per driver. Now my calculater is not broken and does add properly so i fail to see how ups can eliminate package car drivers over, lets just say 100 pcs in my center alone.

Union boss 705red has lost $2,660 in local package car drivers pay today and every day until company ABC decides to see the light and only does business reds way. Red is not worried about the lose income as its only a little over a dollar per driver. On a side note FedEx was more than willing to take the money and their business.

Tomorrow Union boss 705red plans on taking on other ruthless business that don't want to business reds way until all of them conforms to his business practices. FedEx will have account executives following red and picking up the crumbs

one month later

Red has stopped doing business with 25 different companies for a net loss of 75,000 packages a day. Red says that he will keep it up until they conform to his business practice, He is not worried about it because its only a little more than $33 a day per driver and they would never notice it.

Announcements: This Friday Red will show us how you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[atatbl]

Red why do you keep ignoring his question? How many package do you delivery each day?

 

[tieguy]

Ok lets just look at it for a minute, this customer is shipping 3,000 pcs, lets say to chicago. Now lets say we have 2,000 package car drivers in the chicago area, now a little over 1 package per driver. Now my calculater is not broken and does add properly so i fail to see how ups can eliminate package car drivers over, lets just say 100 pcs in my center alone.

The Union recognizes that the Employer is in direct competition with the United States Postal Service and other firms engaging in the
distribution of express letter, parcel express, parcel delivery, and freight, both air and surface. In order to meet that competition and
thereby protect and, if possible, increase the number of bargaining unit jobs, it is agreed that any provisions in this Agreement to the​

contrary notwithstanding, the Employer:

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]Section 1.​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold]
[/FONT](a) may use substitute means of transportation (such as airplane, helicopter, ship or T.O.friend.C.) in its operations; provided, however,​

that no feeder driver

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]with more than three (3) years of seniority in the feeder driver classification [/FONT][/FONT]in the employ of the Employer, as

of August 1, 1997 will ​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be laid off or displaced from a feeder classification as a result of a run being placed on the rail. However,

the Employer shall not be required to remove loads from the rail to provide work for employees whose ground loads were eliminated
or temporarily discontinued. Any claimed abuse of this Section by any of the Local Unions shall be subject to immediate review by the​

National Grievance Committee.

​

​

[/FONT]​

​

[/FONT](b) may drop loaded or empty trailers at locations designated by it, its customers or consignees for customer or consignee loading or
unloading. It is understood that customers and consignees will ​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]not move trailers for loading and/or unloading other than on their
premises. It is further understood that dropping and picking up these trailers shall be done by members of the bargaining unit.

During peak season, the Employer will ​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall ​

​

make every reasonable effort to use current UPS employees and hire a sufficient number

of employees to handle peak volume. After doing so, the Employer may use alternate means of transporting packages during peak
season and will ​

​

[FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]utilize union carriers whenever possible. Plans to utilize outside carriers will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be reviewed and agreed with
the Local Union. Such agreement will [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]not be unreasonably withheld.

This is bits and pieces of article 26 competion from our locals contract, it is page 37 and 38 if you would like to see the whole article,http://www.teamsterslocal705.org/UPS-705 Final 2008 080608 FINAL.pdf
[/FONT]​

​

[/FONT]​

key to all this language is the agreement is by the employer. the customer did not agree to this language.

​

 

[alister]

7/27/2009 Mission accomplished

Red anoncees today that his mission to stop ruthless customers of trying to have it their way has been accomplished just 200 business days after it started. With a net loss of 600,000 packages a day which is 266 dollars a day per driver. When asked about the loss per day, Red said they would not notice, they have cake.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

...There are very few package car drivers that deliver 300 packages a day in non peak volume... /quote]

This is inaccurate, at least in my center and, from what I have read here, in most centers. Anything less than 350 for me is a light day as I generally deliver 90-125 daily to Sams/Walmart alone and then 75-100 at SUNY (college) so that is 165-225 on average just at these stops. We have at least 5-6 routes (closer to 10 out of 26) that exceed 300 pkgs on a daily basis.

 

[alister]

...There are very few package car drivers that deliver 300 packages a day in non peak volume... /quote]

This is inaccurate, at least in my center and, from what I have read here, in most centers. Anything less than 350 for me is a light day as I generally deliver 90-125 daily to Sams/Walmart alone and then 75-100 at SUNY (college) so that is 165-225 on average just at these stops. We have at least 5-6 routes (closer to 10 out of 26) that exceed 300 pkgs on a daily basis.

how many drivers would lose their jobs at your center if the volume went down 300 packages? Would you rather see a non-union competitor gain this volume because we were not cost effective to win the volume? People complain all the time about how did we let FedEx get this big but then complain about having to make a compromise to save jobs.

Like i said before, this has both positive and negative effects. the pros are, about 10 package car drivers get to keep their jobs, at least 6 pt employees. UPSF gets some extra volume to help them out. personally i would rather keep as many union people employed than let FedEx keep getting bigger.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

The answer here is for UPSF drivers to make the same amount as UPS Feeder drivers. Than UPS will not have an incentive to pit one division of the company against another. The customer can still zone skip, still save money, but UPS as corporation will just have to see a little less profit.

I am sure UPSF drivers look at us Feeder drivers with a little envy for the extra money and benefits we earn. Hopefully that translates into better contracts for them in the future. Our national union must take the lead in this effort.

 

[av8torntn]

how many drivers would lose their jobs at your center if the volume went down 300 packages? Would you rather see a non-union competitor gain this volume because we were not cost effective to win the volume? People complain all the time about how did we let FedEx get this big but then complain about having to make a compromise to save jobs.

Like i said before, this has both positive and negative effects. the pros are, about 10 package car drivers get to keep their jobs, at least 6 pt employees. UPSF gets some extra volume to help them out. personally i would rather keep as many union people employed than let FedEx keep getting bigger.

Just from my point of view this is not what is happening. As I said before multiple times this has at the very least the apperance to me as something UPS is doing not the customer. If the customer wanted this my management could have easily just said so instead of passing the blame around to anyone they could.

On a side note to address part of your post. Being in Memphis I have complained for years about UPS not doing enough to compete with fedex. They could use some of the brains in IE to come up with a way to offer customers a later pickup time.There are plenty of other things they could do. The sole focus from my point of view of IE is to reduce costs. I think we should change the focus of everyone at UPS to gaining new business. We have many customers that ship only UPS until our cutoff time then ship the rest Fedex. You cannot go a full week here without running into a sales rep from fedex at one of our customers accounts. I am in the heart of enemy territory I see first hand why fedex is successful. I just disagree that UPS is doing this to gain new customers. We can go around and around if you want but in the end all I can see is what is going on in my small part of the UPS world.

 

[tieguy]

Just from my point of view this is not what is happening. As I said before multiple times this has at the very least the apperance to me as something UPS is doing not the customer. If the customer wanted this my management could have easily just said so instead of passing the blame around to anyone they could.

In some way I'm sure you're right in that UPS may be influencing the decision in some manner. In all cases though that I have personally seen the customer told us what service options they wanted and we told them we could do or we could not do it. Ultimately I think the use of UPSF is driven by something they can do for the customer that small package can not. Cost savings could be a contributer but I don't think its the driving force behind this move. I deal with these type of issues all the time. your dispatch manager and local IE folks also want those packages handled in your hub. His packages per hour is based on hub volume. the more hub volume he has the better for him. In this area you are both in the same boat though he certainly did not express it that way.

This might be another way to ask him the same question. Ask him "hey listen I hear our PPFH ( packages per feeder hour) is based on hub volume? The more the better. Why then would they send all that volume away?

 

[705red]

Union boss 705red has lost $2,660 in local package car drivers pay today and every day until company ABC decides to see the light and only does business reds way. Red is not worried about the lose income as its only a little over a dollar per driver. On a side note FedEx was more than willing to take the money and their business.

Tomorrow Union boss 705red plans on taking on other ruthless business that don't want to business reds way until all of them conforms to his business practices. FedEx will have account executives following red and picking up the crumbs

one month later

Red has stopped doing business with 25 different companies for a net loss of 75,000 packages a day. Red says that he will keep it up until they conform to his business practice, He is not worried about it because its only a little more than $33 a day per driver and they would never notice it.

Announcements: This Friday Red will show us how you can have your cake and eat it too.

Please dont start the dramatics here with the typical swinging dick with a tie mentatlity!

Your worried about fedex taking this volume because you expect us to believe that the customer came up with tis idea all by themselves. The customer said i want to use ups ground because my driver av8 said you can help us. But you know i want the greay semis to drive my ground packages from point a to pint b, BS!

How come when union employees bring up ideas to grow the business you dont listen but your quick to subcontract out our work?

Heres an idea!
If i go into a 10 story office building for 5 pick ups, why cant we combine all the customers in this same building and give them all the same rate for shipping? You treat lets say 25 companies as 1 and calculate their shipping rate as you would a bigger shipper, and instantly we gain more packages. This is what fedex does and this is why its hard for us to gain more business. Now instaed of spending 15 minutes for a dozen or so packages you are now spending 30 mins and pulling out hundreds.

By the way routes are built on stops not pieces, but im sure you knew that already!

 

[705red]

Red why do you keep ignoring his question? How many package do you delivery each day?

I must have over looked his/her question, it varies to day on an easy monday it was 260, so between 260 and 300 on average, with no docks all delivered on handcarts except for my resi's.

 

[705red]

key to all this language is the agreement is by the employer. the customer did not agree to this language.

[/left]

Your right and the employer agreed to not to subcontract, divert our work. this is called a grievance between the employees and ups.

But the customer did agree to do this and im sure it was offered by our employer.

 

[705red]

how many drivers would lose their jobs at your center if the volume went down 300 packages? Would you rather see a non-union competitor gain this volume because we were not cost effective to win the volume? People complain all the time about how did we let FedEx get this big but then complain about having to make a compromise to save jobs.

Like i said before, this has both positive and negative effects. the pros are, about 10 package car drivers get to keep their jobs, at least 6 pt employees. UPSF gets some extra volume to help them out. personally i would rather keep as many union people employed than let FedEx keep getting bigger.

Here at ups we are promoted from within, you start ptime work for several years move up into package, when your body starts to give out you go feeder. If this doesnt stop there will be no were for us package car drivers to move up to.


Lets not forget our pensions! Freight does not belong to our plans and eliminating our jobs here and there while diverting the work will evenyually hurt our pensions.

I have seen bills for walgreens nda prices, $6 for a nda because they are a huge customer, if you can ship an air for about 25% of what even i, an employee will pay for this same servise you can afford another $3 an hour to have our feeder drivers move these trailers.

 

[tieguy]

Here at ups we are promoted from within, you start ptime work for several years move up into package, when your body starts to give out you go feeder. If this doesnt stop there will be no were for us package car drivers to move up to.


Lets not forget our pensions! Freight does not belong to our plans and eliminating our jobs here and there while diverting the work will evenyually hurt our pensions.

I have seen bills for walgreens nda prices, $6 for a nda because they are a huge customer, if you can ship an air for about 25% of what even i, an employee will pay for this same servise you can afford another $3 an hour to have our feeder drivers move these trailers.

In the example I gave earlier we would have lost approximately 5 feeder runs and numerous pkg driver jobs and p/t hourly jobs if we had not kept the business with the two direct loads they run.

Large shipper with a sister operation in missouri. The sister operation had already switched to fdx. Fdx was wining and dining our facility hot and heavy. By SCS coming in and setting up the two direct moves we were able to keep the account and the jobs that are derived from keeping that account.