GPS Time Studies

[JustTired]

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

While I generally agree with what your saying, I do think something needs to be done. I don't really care if I run early or late as far as the numbers go. The problem is that we are dispatched by those numbers. After months (if not years) of running late, you would think that someone would realize that here is a problem with the allowances. You would think that someone would suggest reevaluating those allowances. The only reason I can think of to let things continue as they are is to take bonus pay away from those drivers who are on bonus.

First , I am not in a bonus center. Back when they were voting on whether to have bonus or not, we had a lot of older drivers. They were suspicious of bonus and were sure that eventually it would turn out to be a bad thing. It was voted down and, in turn, I felt like I lost a lot of money because of that decision (yeah, I was somewhat of a runner in those days). I don't think that originally bonus was to turn out to be a bad thing, but in the neverending quest to cut costs it has turned the "standards" into a joke. It saves the company bonus pay at the cost of everyone running overallowed. That would be fine.....but they still try to hold you to those messed up standards.

Maybe someone is finally realizing that and are trying to fix it. I don't think GPS time studies is the answer.....but maybe I'm wrong. With the shoddy implementation of most of the tech advances in recent years, my faith in a good outcome is nil.

Time will tell. I'm just not holding my breath.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

DITTO!!

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

Well said, punch to punch is all that matters as far as time.

 

[brownIEman]

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

not directly no. However, even the union recognizes that we have a business to run, and the evaluation of production is part of running the business. So in a since, yes the union does recognize those numbers.

For you it may make no difference. For drivers in bonus centers it certainly will. For the company as a whole it absolutely will. Changing the time studies may not alter your work methods and ethics, (and really, I would hope that is a superfluous statement, because they certainly should not for anyone) but they will alter your dispatch. Whoever is planning your dispatch is held accountable to dispatch you within a certain range. Most probably between 8.0 and 9.5. If the allowances for your area are way out of whack, you might get dispatched with an 8.5 hour day on paper, but even following trace and the methods and moving at a brisk pace, you are consistently hitting 11 hour days. Fix the time allowances and you fix the dispatch range, and voila, you get to see your family again. Although you take home less in OT and 9.5 grievance pay, but who the hell is going to put a price tag on family?

BTW, none of this will happen by working with your union reps. For this, you need to find a way to work with your management. Now, even then, it may not help. I will be the first to admit there are management folks at this company who just don't get it, and I would be happier than you if they would move on ( as my partners, they reflect on me to some degree after all). If you work with some of those, you have my sympathy and my hope that you will get some good ones soon. My impression based on your posts on this board however, lead me to believe that even if you do get some good ones in the future you will not recognize it and will immediately begin destroying any possible positive relationship you might have otherwise built with them.

 

[brownIEman]

That sounds fair to me. At least before the bogus 5.8 seconds per pkg, that we lost which turned us into 1 or 2 late overnightI knew if I had a good day or a bad day. How it would show up the next day within .15. I knew, now I havent a clue. I realize work has to be measured, I have no problem with that. But the measurment has to be accurate. I used to know how I gained or lost time, the day all the lights are green, and you cruise, all the idiots stayed home, etc. The day from heck when every stop is a battle. . Now its like reading the morning funnies. This is why the luster has gone for many of us. Because we work hard, to get done, not necessarily to make good numbers but to get home at a decent hour. That is a fair day. We know the business is such that some days there will be a 10 or a 12, and no one ever seemed to mind. But now its every day, every month, all yr. And I feel the lack of current accurate studies, is what caused the denegration of employee morale. I remember last summer getting home at dark in June. That should not happen consistently. IMHO

I agree with you. My hope is that a more automated time study will allow us to do many, many studies in a short period of time. The time study is supposed to measure a normal day (note, not perfect, just normal). So any time study on a snow day for instance, would not be valid. Ditto if you have a downtown route and downtown is all torn up that day. What I can accept as a time study is limited by who I can get to ride with you for a day or two. Now, let's say instead of riding with you, I run automated studies on you for 30 consecutive days. Then I look at those days and check your over and under allowance. I pay special attention to the really high days, make sure you did not have a breakdown, and yes, make sure you did not do something silly like drive 10 miles and have 30 minutes between stops for no reason. Likewise I look very closely at any really under allowed days and make sure something is not out of whack there. Now, any days for which I find a big anomaly, I throw out. I then take an average from what is left. Would that not get me fairly close to a normal day for your route?

To be honest, I do not know if this is the strategic plan for these GPS time studies. But I do know they put this sort of thing in the realm of possibility. So, maybe. We can always hope...

 

[soberups]

not directly no. However, even the union recognizes that we have a business to run, and the evaluation of production is part of running the business. So in a since, yes the union does recognize those numbers.
.

Its too bad that IE doesnt always grasp the fact that we have a business to run.....for in the world of business we must dispatch routes based upon REALITY and not some absurd IE fantasy concocted by an "expert" behind a desk in a different time zone.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I agree with you. My hope is that a more automated time study will allow us to do many, many studies in a short period of time. The time study is supposed to measure a normal day (note, not perfect, just normal). So any time study on a snow day for instance, would not be valid. Ditto if you have a downtown route and downtown is all torn up that day. What I can accept as a time study is limited by who I can get to ride with you for a day or two. Now, let's say instead of riding with you, I run automated studies on you for 30 consecutive days. Then I look at those days and check your over and under allowance. I pay special attention to the really high days, make sure you did not have a breakdown, and yes, make sure you did not do something silly like drive 10 miles and have 30 minutes between stops for no reason. Likewise I look very closely at any really under allowed days and make sure something is not out of whack there. Now, any days for which I find a big anomaly, I throw out. I then take an average from what is left. Would that not get me fairly close to a normal day for your route?

To be honest, I do not know if this is the strategic plan for these GPS time studies. But I do know they put this sort of thing in the realm of possibility. So, maybe. We can always hope...

On my last 3 day OJS ride, my sup told me that the only way to get a new time study on my area would be for him to put his job on the line. He basically would have to personally guarantee the time allowances were wrong or face losing his job. I don't know if that was true, but if it was, these new GPS time studies could be used for adjusting routes that are consistantly overallowed or maybe used to review the last live, in-person time study to verify the IE person's calculations. It shouldn't take an act of God to get a route's allowance changed.

If my route has 120 stops and I'm 1 hour overallowed every day, that's 30 seconds per stop. How can I be that overallowed per delivery when many of my deliveries are simply walk to the door, drop the package and leave and most of those take less than 30 seconds to do? I don't waste time talking to anyone. A GPS time study could show whether I'm wasting time BSing or not.

One side of me wants to think GPS time studies could be a useful tool, while the other side of me realizes there are vindictive management people who may use the opportunity to adjust allowances just to target and harass a driver they don't like (such as one of the "goons" tieguy writes about).

 

[soberups]

Time allowed is time speculated. Time taken is time recognized.

 

[soberups]

It shouldn't take an act of God to get a route's allowance changed.
.

God may have made the universe, but even He can't get IE to fix a faulty allowance.

 

[soberups]

One side of me wants to think GPS time studies could be a useful tool...

They are useful for IE because now a guy behind a desk can screw you out of your lunch without ever having to go to the trouble of riding with you first.

 

[browniehound]

BrownIEguy said:
"Now, any days for which I find a big anomaly, I throw out. I then take an average from what is left. Would that not get me fairly close to a normal day for your route?"

I would agree to this.

 

[Treegrower]

No one can screw you out of your lunch. During many a ride, various supes have said, "we're behind, no time to stop for a full lunch. Eat something quick while you sort." I declined. Pulled into a local on area diner and took my full lunch. I said "looks like you were wrong, I had plenty of time for lunch." Of course he had to call the center and get my pickups covered, but we had plenty of time for lunch. Just not plenty of time to do everything else

 

[pretzel_man]

P-Man, How are they going to account for stop signs, traffic lights, and speed limit signs?? Can the satelites see on a angle??

I think I didn't clearly explain...

The GPS time studies only affect a portion of the overall time study. It more accuratley measures the outside walk portion.

Today, an observer watches you walk to a stop from your package car. He / she estimates the distance you walked and records it.

With this change, they will look at a GPS reading of where you parked and walked. They will compare it to a satellite map like Google or Microsoft.

The map will then more accurately measure how far you walked. It does not affect travel (stop lights, traffect, speed limits, etc.)

I'm certain they are looking to change that too one day.

This new process will be cheaper and more accurate, but it will not solve the entire problem.

BTW, part of the problem is that too much misunderstanding of how the process works exists.

That was evident based on what some people on this board have commented. So much of what was stated was inaccurate. This is from how the process works to the definition of overallowed.

My opinion, is that UPS should not have used time study to measure how an individual driver is doing or to calculate bonus.

Time study measures a job. It does not say where the problem exists. For instance, you know that if you have a poor load, it will take you longer to complete your day. You'll be overallowed, but its not your fault.

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

 

[JustTired]

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

Amen!! And by the amount of drivers that are overdispatched daily, they're not doing too well. Unless ,of course, that is the "plan".

 

[pretzel_man]

Its too bad that IE doesnt always grasp the fact that we have a business to run.....for in the world of business we must dispatch routes based upon REALITY and not some absurd IE fantasy concocted by an "expert" behind a desk in a different time zone.

Again, there is a lot of misunderstanding on where time study and allowances fit.

Time study is "supposed" to measure effectiveness to to a standard. As I said before, it measures management effectiveness better than employee effectiveness.

Dispatch is not based on time study. If you take a look at the system used for dispatching, its based on PAID day, not planned day.

Paid day does take into account REALITY.

That being said, if a management person told you that they must dispatch a "scratch" day, then they are either not following the methods, or they are not telling you the truth.

P-Man

 

[trplnkl]

Again, there is a lot of misunderstanding on where time study and allowances fit.

Time study is "supposed" to measure effectiveness to to a standard. As I said before, it measures management effectiveness better than employee effectiveness.

Dispatch is not based on time study. If you take a look at the system used for dispatching, its based on PAID day, not planned day.

Paid day does take into account REALITY.

That being said, if a management person told you that they must dispatch a "scratch" day, then they are either not following the methods, or they are not telling you the truth.

P-Man

Well, I hate to tell you this, but I must. Your last to posts are exactly bassackwards to what I and every driver I personally know have been told for 20 + years.
Everyday, we are told that the dispatch is determined by the time studies. We lose or gain time according to the time studies. Our (the drivers) effectiveness is determined by the time studies.
I'm not saying you are wrong or being untruthful, I'm just telling you what every manager and every supervisor I have worked under tell the drivers. Can they all be lieing to us? Shirley not.

 

[pretzel_man]

Well, I hate to tell you this, but I must. Your last to posts are exactly bassackwards to what I and every driver I personally know have been told for 20 + years.
Everyday, we are told that the dispatch is determined by the time studies. We lose or gain time according to the time studies. Our (the drivers) effectiveness is determined by the time studies.
I'm not saying you are wrong or being untruthful, I'm just telling you what every manager and every supervisor I have worked under tell the drivers. Can they all be lieing to us? Shirley not.

TRPL:

First, remember, there is a difference between overallowed and dispatch.

Here is an easy way to prove what I'm saying.

Ask your supervisor to show you the Dispatch Planning System. You will see a screen that shows every route in the center.

There is a column on the screen called Paid Day. There is another column called Target Paid Day. If an individual dispatch is greater than the target by some amount, the route will show red. If its less, it will show yellow.

The paid day is calculated by taking the time study value and then adding in any over allowed.

Remember, this is the planning system, NOT the one you see in the preload.

If your supervisor will not show you the screen, IM me and I'll send you a screen shot. In fact, I bet I can find the training materials that were given to the centers.

I'm sorry that this is backward to what you've been told. If you read what I said, its a failing of UPS that consistent, accurate information doesn't get to all our people.

Even though its been many years now, I've taken, worked up, and installed many, many time studies. Package, hub, feeder...

I used to hold training classes for drivers, sorters, etc. on exactly how it was calculated and used. I'm not saying that they liked the allowances any better afterward, but at least they understood the process.

As I did then, I thought it important to post the accurate information here, even if its different than the conventional wisdom.

P-Man

 

[JustTired]

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

 

[Griff]

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

It's real simple. It's a tool of harassment for management. If you put on their penny-loafers for a minute you'll see why a lot of the routes are completely bogus. It wouldn't behoove the company to have everyone running scratch as that would mean there's no room for improvement. They would have to bust balls elsewhere in UPS in an effort to reduce costs. Package car operation is a very expensive payroll and it's basically the only real area where UPS can save a lot of money through production. The game is tilted folks, the dice are loaded. It isn't ever going to get any better, don't look for it, just accept it for what it is and tell them your union doesn't recognize their time standards.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

I think I didn't clearly explain...

The GPS time studies only affect a portion of the overall time study. It more accuratley measures the outside walk portion.

Today, an observer watches you walk to a stop from your package car. He / she estimates the distance you walked and records it.

With this change, they will look at a GPS reading of where you parked and walked. They will compare it to a satellite map like Google or Microsoft.

The map will then more accurately measure how far you walked. It does not affect travel (stop lights, traffect, speed limits, etc.)

I'm certain they are looking to change that too one day.

This new process will be cheaper and more accurate, but it will not solve the entire problem.

BTW, part of the problem is that too much misunderstanding of how the process works exists.

That was evident based on what some people on this board have commented. So much of what was stated was inaccurate. This is from how the process works to the definition of overallowed.

My opinion, is that UPS should not have used time study to measure how an individual driver is doing or to calculate bonus.

Time study measures a job. It does not say where the problem exists. For instance, you know that if you have a poor load, it will take you longer to complete your day. You'll be overallowed, but its not your fault.

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

As far as measuring walks.. is the gps in the diad? There are times (I know it's not the methods) that it just does not make sense to cary the diad to the door because the package is big, but not really heavy, (sometimes I just hate getting that hand truck out and in) and the diad would just complicate things.