GPS Time Studies

[JustTired]

The game is tilted folks, the dice are loaded. It isn't ever going to get any better, don't look for it, just accept it for what it is and tell them your union doesn't recognize their time standards.

Hey.....I understand the "not recognizing standards" deal. I guess the price to pay for non-recognition is to work till 8-9 o'clock every day.

From a company standpoint.....I guess I would wonder why pour in the money to time study these areas when the union is not going to recognize them anyway. Ater all, it would be cheaper to live with the overallowed according to the present standards. It just doesn't seem fair that life as we used to know it is over. Gone are the days of getting home at a decent time. Oh well.....so much for driver morale..... and welcome eroded safety conditions.

I guess I'm from the "old school" of working hard then going home to some quality family time, not to mention having some pride in a company that, not only paid its' people well, but showed some concern for those people. I guess there's not a lot of room for concern in this greedy world we live in.

 

[pretzel_man]

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

Well, I don't know if the dispatchers understand how to use the data provided by the system.

I also don't know what their intentions are.

I do however know the dispatching methods and how the tools work. I assume I'm not doing a good job of explaining this.

Let me try one more time....

First, the dispatcher is supposed to determine a target paid day for each driver. For this example, lets assume its 9.40 hours.

Next, they are supposed to check the operation reports and determine the driver's average over or under allowed average time. For this example, lets assume this is a 1.00 hour over allowed driver.

The dispatcher then takes a representative day(s) from history (or a combination of history and actual package forecasts). The system calculates how much planned work is on that car. This calculation comes from the time study. In this example, lets assume that this is 8.75 hours of planned work.

The system then adds up the numbers and compares to the target. In this example, this is what we would have:

Planned Day: 8.75 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.00 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours

The system will show this route red because the Paid day is too much over the target.

Lets say that time studies change by .20. What would happen? The driver would then be .20 more overallowed (or 1.20 hours).

what would this do to the dispatch?

Planned Day: 8.55 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.20 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.

Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.

At this point, unless I'm still unclear, its your choice whether to believe me or not. If I'm unclear, I'd be glad to try and explain again.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

As far as measuring walks.. is the gps in the diad? There are times (I know it's not the methods) that it just does not make sense to cary the diad to the door because the package is big, but not really heavy, (sometimes I just hate getting that hand truck out and in) and the diad would just complicate things.

IWork:

Sorry, I don't think I explained this well. Your question is a good one.

The time study is not automated. A time study supervisor looks at the GPS readings on a map. They can see a satellite image like Google has.

They would see where you pressed stop complete.

They would mark the position where you park, and the position where you delivered. They would do this using the GPS readings and also looking at the map.

The map then calculates the walk distance.

It shouldn't matter whether you took your DIAD with you or left it in the package car. They should mark it properly.

I don't know what their plans are, but I would think it appropriate if you wanted to see what they did. You should be able to see each stop and where they marked your park and delivery position.

I think this would help make that part of the study more understandable.

P-Man

 

[soberups]

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.
Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.
P-Man

What you are describing....is the theory of how it is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, the theory and the reality are two completely different things.
Dispatch is controlled by I.E. The center team has no say in the matter at all. The center team is told by IE how many cars they will be allowed to put on the road based upon the projected number of planned hours. These projections seldom have any basis in reality. The center operates in the "real" world but the actual operational decisions are made in the "IE" world. The two worlds have very little in common.

 

[Will Work For PAS]

Well, I don't know if the dispatchers understand how to use the data provided by the system.

Most dispatchers understand it, but very few operations managers (operations managers, division managers, business managers, or on road sups) understand it. It really puts the dispatchers in a bind. That's why most of them hate their jobs.

I assume I'm not doing a good job of explaining this.

You nailed the explanation - dead on.

The system then adds up the numbers and compares to the target. In this example, this is what we would have:

Planned Day: 8.75 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.00 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours


The system will show this route red because the Paid day is too much over the target.

The only thing I would add to this scenario is that there's a range of dispatch number that's also used - usually around 0.40 hrs. That means that you would add 0.40 hours to the planned paid day to determine the max stop level. The route would actually be dispatched at a paid day of 10.15 hrs if dispatched at its max.

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.

Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.

This is where the system breaks down. The centers are held accountable (to put it mildly) to make sure that all routes have at least 8 hours of planned work on them. To pay the above driver less than 9.5 hours the dispatcher would have to reduce the planned hours by an hour taking the planned hours to 7.75. The operations and division managers yell at the center teams for planning this route under 8 hours if they keep the driver under 9.5 and also yell at them if they pay the routes over 9.5. Noone will have an intelligent discussion and develop a workable plan that everyone agrees on. The center team isn't allowed to plan reality therefore the over-dispatching continues. We need for operations managers to understand this and provide some leadership...but I don't see any signs of it happening yet. I've never seen an operations manager or division manager ask to see how a route is planned in DPS.

 

[Will Work For PAS]

What you are describing....is the theory of how it is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, the theory and the reality are two completely different things.
Dispatch is controlled by I.E. The center team has no say in the matter at all. The center team is told by IE how many cars they will be allowed to put on the road based upon the projected number of planned hours. These projections seldom have any basis in reality. The center operates in the "real" world but the actual operational decisions are made in the "IE" world. The two worlds have very little in common.

Actually, from an IE perspective what I want to see is honesty in the planning process more than anything. I advise you to do what P-Man mentioned earlier and ask your managers to see a screen shot of your route's DPS plan for tomorrow. It will show how many stops are planned on your car, your over/under plan, how many miles you have planned (which has a huge impact on your planned day), your min/max stops, everything. Remember when you see it that IE didn't make it - it was created by your local management team.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

IWork:

Sorry, I don't think I explained this well. Your question is a good one.

The time study is not automated. A time study supervisor looks at the GPS readings on a map. They can see a satellite image like Google has.

They would see where you pressed stop complete.

They would mark the position where you park, and the position where you delivered. They would do this using the GPS readings and also looking at the map.

The map then calculates the walk distance.

It shouldn't matter whether you took your DIAD with you or left it in the package car. They should mark it properly.

I don't know what their plans are, but I would think it appropriate if you wanted to see what they did. You should be able to see each stop and where they marked your park and delivery position.

I think this would help make that part of the study more understandable.

P-Man

Still a little confused. I always stop complete back at the car as that stop is not completed until I am back in the car ready to go to the next one. Are you saying stop complete at the door to show the walk?

 

[soberups]

Remember when you see it that IE didn't make it - it was created by your local management team.

But the impossible time allowances that my local management team is forced to base that dispatch on...as well as the the number of routes they are permitted put on the road... were all created by IE. My management team isn't allowed to make any meaningful decisions. All they can do is to try and find new and creative ways to get 10 gallons of crap into the 5 gallon bucket that IE has given them.

 

[trplnkl]

TRPL:

First, remember, there is a difference between overallowed and dispatch.

Here is an easy way to prove what I'm saying.

Ask your supervisor to show you the Dispatch Planning System. You will see a screen that shows every route in the center.

There is a column on the screen called Paid Day. There is another column called Target Paid Day. If an individual dispatch is greater than the target by some amount, the route will show red. If its less, it will show yellow.

The paid day is calculated by taking the time study value and then adding in any over allowed.

Remember, this is the planning system, NOT the one you see in the preload.

If your supervisor will not show you the screen, IM me and I'll send you a screen shot. In fact, I bet I can find the training materials that were given to the centers.

I'm sorry that this is backward to what you've been told. If you read what I said, its a failing of UPS that consistent, accurate information doesn't get to all our people.

Even though its been many years now, I've taken, worked up, and installed many, many time studies. Package, hub, feeder...

I used to hold training classes for drivers, sorters, etc. on exactly how it was calculated and used. I'm not saying that they liked the allowances any better afterward, but at least they understood the process.

As I did then, I thought it important to post the accurate information here, even if its different than the conventional wisdom.

P-Man

First of all, I want to say I do appreciate you taking the time to try to explain all this to a bunch of dumb truck drivers. Thank you.
Here is a snippet from one of your later posts:

Planned Day: 8.75 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.00 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours

I think this is what most drivers have a problem with when it comes to time studies. From what I have been today in the past (again this may not hold to the truth) Is what it takes to make that 8.75 day is inflated to a near impossible standard using the proper work methods. From what we have always been told, the time alloted to stop the package car, open bulkhead door, select package, drop package, return to truck, start moving again is based on a national average with consideration given to the average walk time for deliveries in a given area. Again according to what we have been told, there are many other factors taken in to add to the formula (some of which I probably have never heard before). I don't intend to try to pick apart time studies on here simply because there isn't enough time or space to take that task on. Let's just say that I don't feel that the time studies/allowances of today properly reflect how much time reality dictates it should take to get the job done.
I bet there isn't a space on the time study sheet that the age of the driver is part of the calculations.

 

[pretzel_man]

First of all, I want to say I do appreciate you taking the time to try to explain all this to a bunch of dumb truck drivers. Thank you.
Here is a snippet from one of your later posts:

I think this is what most drivers have a problem with when it comes to time studies. From what I have been today in the past (again this may not hold to the truth) Is what it takes to make that 8.75 day is inflated to a near impossible standard using the proper work methods. From what we have always been told, the time alloted to stop the package car, open bulkhead door, select package, drop package, return to truck, start moving again is based on a national average with consideration given to the average walk time for deliveries in a given area. Again according to what we have been told, there are many other factors taken in to add to the formula (some of which I probably have never heard before). I don't intend to try to pick apart time studies on here simply because there isn't enough time or space to take that task on. Let's just say that I don't feel that the time studies/allowances of today properly reflect how much time reality dictates it should take to get the job done.
I bet there isn't a space on the time study sheet that the age of the driver is part of the calculations.

Trpl:

First, I honestly have NEVER thought you and others are a "bunch of dumb truck drivers". There is no way that you could do the great job you do if you were not skilled and intelligent. There is no way our customers would love you so much without those skills.

That being said, I'm not trying to argue for time study here. You are correct that there is not a variable for age. You are also correct that the allowances are based on averages. Therefore, the larger the group, the more the averages "average out". For instance, they are more accurate for a center total than an individual drivers.

I was trying to point out that when it comes to dispatching, those inaccuracies are accounted for when we add in a driver's over / under allowed.

In the example I mentioned, in order to hit the target dispatch of 9.40 hours, the planner should put 8.40 hours of "time studied" work on the car.

I don't know if they are doing that in your center, but that is the method. If that were happening, don't you agree that that clears up the issue?

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

What you are describing....is the theory of how it is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, the theory and the reality are two completely different things.
Dispatch is controlled by I.E. The center team has no say in the matter at all. The center team is told by IE how many cars they will be allowed to put on the road based upon the projected number of planned hours. These projections seldom have any basis in reality. The center operates in the "real" world but the actual operational decisions are made in the "IE" world. The two worlds have very little in common.

Sorry, but I've attended and taught too many dispatch schools to accept that the centers have "no say in the matter".

The center creates their own dispatch. IE does do the high level planning, but not the day to day dispatch.

I can't say what goes on in your center, but I know what is taught. It a weak center manager that blames their dispatch on IE.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Still a little confused. I always stop complete back at the car as that stop is not completed until I am back in the car ready to go to the next one. Are you saying stop complete at the door to show the walk?

IWork:

No... They will show on a map where you stop complete (and I think other things, like where you scanned.)

The IE will move the reading to the correct place.

To get the idea, go into Google Earth. It lets you add "placemarks". If you position one placemark where you park, and another placemark where you delivered. The distance between the two is the walk distance.

Its important to note that this doesn't just happen automatically. The computer will plot the points. The IE will move the placemarks to the correct position. The computer will then calculate the walk distance.

Since its all stored, you gave a good audit trail to see what they did.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

This is where the system breaks down. The centers are held accountable (to put it mildly) to make sure that all routes have at least 8 hours of planned work on them. To pay the above driver less than 9.5 hours the dispatcher would have to reduce the planned hours by an hour taking the planned hours to 7.75. The operations and division managers yell at the center teams for planning this route under 8 hours if they keep the driver under 9.5 and also yell at them if they pay the routes over 9.5. Noone will have an intelligent discussion and develop a workable plan that everyone agrees on. The center team isn't allowed to plan reality therefore the over-dispatching continues. We need for operations managers to understand this and provide some leadership...but I don't see any signs of it happening yet. I've never seen an operations manager or division manager ask to see how a route is planned in DPS.

This is a fair point.

Dispatchers get in trouble if a driver is planned with less than 8 hours. Yes, this is based on the time study.

If a driver is over 1.50 hours overallowed, he/she will simultaneously be over 9.5 paid and less than 8.0 planned.

I concede that in this case, the system breaks down.

P-Man

 

[JustTired]

So with this scenario playing out all across the country, the system is broken. The fix is to have a more accurate measurement of all of the parameters the job entails. Until that happens.....we will continue to have the problems we are having.

P-man.....I respect your input on this matter. But, with that respect, I fail to see that anything is going to change. While it may be that IE is not the ones dictating that only a certain amount of cars are on road, someone somewhere is making that decision (division or district) and it has no basis in reality. Until someone at the level these decisions are being made gets there head out of their........the sand, nothing will change.

It would seem to me that they are tasking the IE department to come up with a workable plan.....and then ignoring the input that they don't want to believe. Just as they did with the drivers when they asked for input on the whole PAS/EDD system and then chose to ignore it. No better way to crush morale at both ends.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Sorry, but I've attended and taught too many dispatch schools to accept that the centers have "no say in the matter".

The center creates their own dispatch. IE does do the high level planning, but not the day to day dispatch.

I can't say what goes on in your center, but I know what is taught. It a weak center manager that blames their dispatch on IE.

P-Man

IE dictates in advance how many drivers or cars are to be on road that day. So...........sounds like they dispatch? Centers cannot change that without trouble from above, so end up having to over-dispatch alot of the time.

 

[trplnkl]

Trpl:

First, I honestly have NEVER thought you and others are a "bunch of dumb truck drivers". There is no way that you could do the great job you do if you were not skilled and intelligent. There is no way our customers would love you so much without those skills.
Thank you for the kind words, seriously.

That being said, I'm not trying to argue for time study here. You are correct that there is not a variable for age. You are also correct that the allowances are based on averages. Therefore, the larger the group, the more the averages "average out". For instance, they are more accurate for a center total than an individual drivers.
Are you saying that the "averages" used in our center are from OUR center's average and not a national average?

I was trying to point out that when it comes to dispatching, those inaccuracies are accounted for when we add in a driver's over / under allowed.
Is this for a given route or a given driver? I am a swing/cover driver, should they transport MY O/U from one route to the next or should I be measured on the route I am on in a given day? Some weeks I may run five different routes. Either way, it could be like comparing Apples and oranges.

In the example I mentioned, in order to hit the target dispatch of 9.40 hours, the planner should put 8.40 hours of "time studied" work on the car.

I don't know if they are doing that in your center, but that is the method. If that were happening, don't you agree that that clears up the issue?

OK, I am getting this part now and it does help clear up some questions but not the issue. To me the issue is that all men were not created equal and neither were UPS routes.
P-Man I'm not targeting YOU, just the system.

P-Man

 

[brownmonster]

We could start by giving back the 5.8 seconds.

 

[outta hours]

I did my own time study last week. I made a note of when I punched in and punched out. Then I added up the hours I worked and studied the amount of money I made for that day. It was a nice sum. My study showed that over allowed, under allowed, planned day, stop count,min/max,scratch,performance,cut/add,split,etc. had no effect what so ever on how long it took me to safely complete my day in the real world.The results of my study show that only two factors in regards to time have any impact on your day, and that would be your punch in and punch out times only. Why worry or introduce other needless variables to the formula. End of study.

 

[JustTired]

That's fine if you have nothing better to do. No family life, etc.

I'd prefer having time to spend with my family myself!

 

[outta hours]

That's fine if you have nothing better to do. No family life, etc.

I'd prefer having time to spend with my family myself!

I have a family also. I also have a job that pays me by the hour not a salary, and I owe it to my family to support them to the best of my ability. Does that mean I work 9-5 and make 80k a year? No it doesn't, and UPS never told me it would when I hired on. They did agree that if I worked past 9.5 hrs more than two days a week I can file a grievance against them to lower my dispatch. I enjoy nothing more that spending time with my wife and son. And I take exception with you implying that I have no life simply because I do not allow myself to be caught up in the time study drama.