High Speed Rail
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I always find it interesting that when you speak of something like High Speed Rail for example, an argument against is from a free market perspective against such means of public owned eg gov't transportation and IMO they would be right. However, IMO where that debate is lost from that perspective is when that same person argues for private cars and that transportation solutions are in more roads and for the gov't to allow more oil drilling on gov't controlled land and offshore areas. So how is this free market? How is this not public transportation by other means? It's not and it is and therefore the problem.
Also the other question is how did we even get where we are now and the debate over roads verses rail? I found this old documentary worth watching in considering that point and just who really was involved in it all. I've posted it before elsewhere but IMO it clearly shows a supposed "free market" player using gov't at certain levels not for purely free market ends but a warped version of it.
And in small communities, a lot of what you thought were publically owned transportation were instead private companies that also went down at the hands of a private/gov't alliance to re-shape public policy. And you thought the recent gov't bailout of GM was the first time!
Also the other question is how did we even get where we are now and the debate over roads verses rail? I found this old documentary worth watching in considering that point and just who really was involved in it all. I've posted it before elsewhere but IMO it clearly shows a supposed "free market" player using gov't at certain levels not for purely free market ends but a warped version of it.
And in small communities, a lot of what you thought were publically owned transportation were instead private companies that also went down at the hands of a private/gov't alliance to re-shape public policy. And you thought the recent gov't bailout of GM was the first time!
diesel96
Well-Known Member
Been awhile. Hope you are doing well!
Very well thx, and back at ya....interesting avatar as usual K-mac...thumbs up... I see all is well here, not much has change, same cast of ideologues, zealots, and messiah complexes are still present. Demonizing those on the other side of a discussion and twisting their views. Speaking of the other side, glad to have The Other Side holding the fort down and doing a terrific job as usual....Hopefully everyone understands this is all in fun, and also helpful in exposing all sides of an issue and deciding for yourself thru the use of facts, deduction, and common sense...
moreluck
golden ticket member
You don't know what the hell you are talking about. My friend comes down on the train to visit us. She's from Toluca Lake and doesn't want to drive very far by herself. There's no tour, just a ride from point A to point B. The few people who do use it arent touring.....usually they'll pack a bike on board and bike back. The TMZ bus would be "touring".
moreluck
golden ticket member
Upstate showed Amtrack......is his all touring too??????????????????????????????????????????????????
brett636
Well-Known Member
Last I checked Florida will be better off without it. Sure the feds are going to dump some money into it to get the project built, but like all high speed rail lines in this country its going to lose money hand over fist and the state of Florida would be required to pick up the tab. Kudos to you having legislators who are smart enough to keep the financial interests of the people in mind.
Last edited:
moreluck
golden ticket member
Metrolink also runs on our rails and here's their mission statement....
Mission Statement Metrolink is a premier regional rail system, including commuter and other passenger services, linking communities to employment and activity centers. Metrolink provides reliable transportation and mobility for the region, leading toward more livable communities.
It doesn't say "touring only".
Mission Statement Metrolink is a premier regional rail system, including commuter and other passenger services, linking communities to employment and activity centers. Metrolink provides reliable transportation and mobility for the region, leading toward more livable communities.
It doesn't say "touring only".
brett636
Well-Known Member
The kind of train it is is irrelevant. The ridership obviously isn't paying for the costs to operate the train requiring an already broke state to put money it doesn't have into a rail line it doesn't need. Same goes for high speed rail. It will cost more to operate than it will bring in pushing the California budget right off the cliff its teetering on now.
brett636
Well-Known Member
I'll second wkmac in welcoming you back. Its been awhile since I have seen you post around here. How are you liking your new governor and U.S. senator?
Metrolink is a "local commuter" service. With stops every 20 seconds it appears. HIGH SPEED rail is something completely different and you cant compare the two.
From Los Angeles to San Francisco in 3 hours by rail is nothing like the metrolink.
In dego, they have the red line trains. Why dont you compare high speed rails with that?
The trains along the coast make for a touring run, not a high speed commuter.
Anyone who doesnt understand the need for high speed rail hasnt been to europe or japan. Maybe if you had, instead of sitting home waiting for the days mental programming from FOXED SPEWS, you would understand the concept.
High Speed rail customers are not local rail comuters. They are different customers.
Attempting to compare the two is silly.
Business people fly all over this state, being on a commuter makes more sense for this customer. These trains are not sightseeing tours of downtown modesto. The object is to employ americans (you know, the ones you claim to be supporting) and finding a future solution to a reduction in consumption of crude oil.
These ideas should have been built 25 years ago when it was cheaper, and today it isnt cheap, but tomorrow it will be too expensive to build thereby making it harder on this country.
So many businesses will prosper with a project like this. Cement, steel, sand, wire, electrical, construction, wood industry, plumbing and so on and on and on will make thousands of dollars over the next 10 years with this project.
Thats enough to pull cali out of the dumps, but those who think its best to do nothing will stand by and complain as their state sinks into the ground.
Peace.
From Los Angeles to San Francisco in 3 hours by rail is nothing like the metrolink.
In dego, they have the red line trains. Why dont you compare high speed rails with that?
The trains along the coast make for a touring run, not a high speed commuter.
Anyone who doesnt understand the need for high speed rail hasnt been to europe or japan. Maybe if you had, instead of sitting home waiting for the days mental programming from FOXED SPEWS, you would understand the concept.
High Speed rail customers are not local rail comuters. They are different customers.
Attempting to compare the two is silly.
Business people fly all over this state, being on a commuter makes more sense for this customer. These trains are not sightseeing tours of downtown modesto. The object is to employ americans (you know, the ones you claim to be supporting) and finding a future solution to a reduction in consumption of crude oil.
These ideas should have been built 25 years ago when it was cheaper, and today it isnt cheap, but tomorrow it will be too expensive to build thereby making it harder on this country.
So many businesses will prosper with a project like this. Cement, steel, sand, wire, electrical, construction, wood industry, plumbing and so on and on and on will make thousands of dollars over the next 10 years with this project.
Thats enough to pull cali out of the dumps, but those who think its best to do nothing will stand by and complain as their state sinks into the ground.
Peace.
moreluck
golden ticket member
The comparison I am making is..........................the mentality of Californians !!!!!! Californians don't want bullet trains!!! How can I get that through your head?? It doesn't matter if it's a train at Disneyland, a train in a ghost town, a speed rail, Amtrak, Metrolink, a fast train, a slow train, a medium speed train, the little engine that could or Thomas the train.............................Californians don't want it PERIOD!! They aren't going to ride it and it will lose money immediately!!!
Maybe Joe Biden rides a train every day to work, but I know of no one who does that. You can't ram a train system down our throats. This isn't N.Y. and the subway system.......which makes sense for them.....not here.
Maybe Joe Biden rides a train every day to work, but I know of no one who does that. You can't ram a train system down our throats. This isn't N.Y. and the subway system.......which makes sense for them.....not here.
brett636
Well-Known Member
You can build your high speed rail, but it doesn't make up for the fact that California's only redeeming quality is its weather which is still not enough to keep businesses from moving out to other southwestern states with lower taxes. Arizona and Texas are eating your lunch when it comes to new jobs and a high speed rail line won't change that. Adding to the already high cost of living in California you have a state budget that is proving increasingly difficult to balance and may ultimately put the state in bankruptcy, but you find it ok to dig yet another hole for the state to have to throw money into? Pretty soon the only people left in California will be Hollywood movie actors and farmers. Good luck getting anyone to ride your high speed rail then.
moreluck
golden ticket member
You're right, I've never been to Europe or Japan and never plan to do so. I don't want to be like Europe, Japan or Canada or any other place outside our borders.
I can get to all 57 of my United States just fine without the rail.
You want jobs in CA.? Make it more business friendly, drill off the coast, get a pres. that won't encourage the jobs in other countries and not here at home (brazil drilling).
I can get to all 57 of my United States just fine without the rail.
You want jobs in CA.? Make it more business friendly, drill off the coast, get a pres. that won't encourage the jobs in other countries and not here at home (brazil drilling).
moreluck
golden ticket member
The Japanese have bullet trains. They have so many frickin' people there, they need it.
Didn't you ever notice that when Japanese tourists come here, they rush in front of you
to get in line? At first I used to think, "WTH?" Then I think their country is so flippin' crowded
it's like "hurry up and get in line" for survival.
I see it a lot in Hawaii.
They ususally don't speak English (or pretend not to) so it's hard to tell them that they are being rude.
I usually give a dirty look of disapproval. I'm sure they realize what they do, but they do it anyhow.
Didn't you ever notice that when Japanese tourists come here, they rush in front of you
to get in line? At first I used to think, "WTH?" Then I think their country is so flippin' crowded
it's like "hurry up and get in line" for survival.
I see it a lot in Hawaii.
They ususally don't speak English (or pretend not to) so it's hard to tell them that they are being rude.
I usually give a dirty look of disapproval. I'm sure they realize what they do, but they do it anyhow.
First of all, I would like to ask MORELUCK how she is able to speak for ALL CALIFORNIANS? Shes retired, living in a small ocean community made up of mostly old people. Old people are not likely to accept change, and I imagine that switching from propeller driven planes to jets was a hard jump for More, but todays world is changing once again.
In california, our entire labor community is in the dumps. Plumbing, Electrical, Construction, Cementing, Asphalting, Painting and the like are completely out of work. These businesses are failing faster than in any time in history. There is no work for these industries.
A high speed rail system will bring all these businesses back to life, and in doing so, every peripheral business connected to them will once again thrive.
Second, to TRIP, California is a transient state. People are moving about every single day. Our airports are overcrowded and over flowing. The business connection between san francisco and los angeles is huge. There are literally flights leaving every hour on the hour to san francisco from every airport in so california.
Because the northern part of california is business connected to southern california, a high speed rail system will simplify the process of moving up and back relieving the airport system, this relief will result in less fuel usage by the aircraft industry. In addition, hundreds of thousands of travelers make the drive to san francisco weekly from los angeles all year round, and the effective cost savings in taking the train and then renting a car in frisco makes more sense.
Moreluck lives in the southern part of our state, and she is quite removed from the business world of Los Angeles. I on the other hand, am directly involved in the business community in Los Angeles. Californians indeed, are looking forward to this new rail and the job creation that it will spawn.
The travel on our freeway system leaving los angeles to san francisco is bumper to bumper for miles on end. It doesnt free up on a weekend until you hit the peak summit at the Grapevine some 100 miles from Los Angeles.
At that point, you can get to highway speeds until you reach middle california where it bogs down again.
Nobody likes this drive.
With airlines raising fees or charging extra for bags, the cost to fly has reached a level that is too expensive for many people. A high speed rail traveling to frisco in three hours for half the money makes better sense for both businessman and tourists.
Peace.
In california, our entire labor community is in the dumps. Plumbing, Electrical, Construction, Cementing, Asphalting, Painting and the like are completely out of work. These businesses are failing faster than in any time in history. There is no work for these industries.
A high speed rail system will bring all these businesses back to life, and in doing so, every peripheral business connected to them will once again thrive.
Second, to TRIP, California is a transient state. People are moving about every single day. Our airports are overcrowded and over flowing. The business connection between san francisco and los angeles is huge. There are literally flights leaving every hour on the hour to san francisco from every airport in so california.
Because the northern part of california is business connected to southern california, a high speed rail system will simplify the process of moving up and back relieving the airport system, this relief will result in less fuel usage by the aircraft industry. In addition, hundreds of thousands of travelers make the drive to san francisco weekly from los angeles all year round, and the effective cost savings in taking the train and then renting a car in frisco makes more sense.
Moreluck lives in the southern part of our state, and she is quite removed from the business world of Los Angeles. I on the other hand, am directly involved in the business community in Los Angeles. Californians indeed, are looking forward to this new rail and the job creation that it will spawn.
The travel on our freeway system leaving los angeles to san francisco is bumper to bumper for miles on end. It doesnt free up on a weekend until you hit the peak summit at the Grapevine some 100 miles from Los Angeles.
At that point, you can get to highway speeds until you reach middle california where it bogs down again.
Nobody likes this drive.
With airlines raising fees or charging extra for bags, the cost to fly has reached a level that is too expensive for many people. A high speed rail traveling to frisco in three hours for half the money makes better sense for both businessman and tourists.
Peace.
moreluck
golden ticket member
I take offense......THe Talega community is 17 different neighborhoods.........The Gallery is the only one (300 homes) for age +55 citizens. Everything else is young families with kids. Don't even pretend to know my demographics.
You are looking at the high speed system as busywork for all the unemployed . What's the point if it doesn't make money? Typical Demoncrat mindset.....just throw money at it and we'll have some workers do some jobs.....to what end??? It's like having no exit plan in a war. Very scatterbrained!!
I am smack in the center between LA / SanDiego. I guess you just write off San Diego like it isn't there. All the military are down this way. O.C. has 3 million people. TOS would lead you to believe that there's no population in SoCal.
You are looking at the high speed system as busywork for all the unemployed . What's the point if it doesn't make money? Typical Demoncrat mindset.....just throw money at it and we'll have some workers do some jobs.....to what end??? It's like having no exit plan in a war. Very scatterbrained!!
I am smack in the center between LA / SanDiego. I guess you just write off San Diego like it isn't there. All the military are down this way. O.C. has 3 million people. TOS would lead you to believe that there's no population in SoCal.
Similar threads
