How Do You End The Welfare State?

[wkmac]

You fully fund it and make it self sustaining for the current generation and then you cut the young people loose by letting them opt completely out. When there is no more future demand, there is no more future need!

Ron Paul at FFF Conference 6/6/2008

 

[tieguy]

I didn't understand his point. I don't think the government forces people on welfare nor do I think the poor are being denied free choice to avoid the welfare roles.

 

[av8torntn]

I didn't understand his point. I don't think the government forces people on welfare nor do I think the poor are being denied free choice to avoid the welfare roles.

I think the real problem is that the Government makes it difficult to break out of poverty. We have a progressive income tax that punishes you for being successful. We have a student loan program that drives up the costs of higher education. We have a minimum wage that prices workers out of the labor market. So yes in effect the poor are being denied free choice to avoid welfare roles.

 

[moreluck]

I still like the idea from before where we need to do drug testing......no welfare of any kind if you can't pass a drug test!!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I still like the idea from before where we need to do drug testing......no welfare of any kind if you can't pass a drug test!!

For every illegal alien from Mexico that is able to find work here we should deport an American to Mexico that supposedly can't. Even trade in my opinion.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

For every illegal alien from Mexico that is able to find work here we should deport an American to Mexico that supposedly can't. Even trade in my opinion.

You don't seem to understand, the illegalls are lowering the wage of jobs that our citizens used to be able to make a living at, they no longer can. These people live 3-4 families to a house, or come as single guys and live 15 people to a house so they don't have the same expenses, they don't have taxes, they don't have to pay into social security. Most of what they make goes back to their home countries.

I personally have seen jobs such as stucco, roofing, drywall, landscaping, and yard care go from $10-$12 an hour to $6- $7 an hour.

Not only that, when they do bring a wife they have as many kids as they can as fast as they can so they won't be deported because their kids are citizens, and guess who pays the bill for the delivery, immunizations etc of these kids?

After they are established, they are not satisfied with $7 an hour jobs, they then work up into higher paying positions, lowering those wages, so where will it end? More and more US citizens are going to be unemployed or underpaid while alot of their money goes back to their homeland to help support infrastructure and family members still living there.

These people have no intention of becoming citizens, they feel the citizenship of their children will save them, or that they can stay until their kids are grown then the kids can stay, become educated etc. and they will go back home, be supported by their kids, as they have supported their parents.

Did you know that the Mexican government actually has programs to encourage this? In most Mexican states there are organizations of people who receive money from those members working in the US to improve roads, water systems, schools etc, those in the US send money back, then the government matches it. Good deal for Mexico bad deal for US

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

You don't seem to understand, the illegalls are lowering the wage of jobs that our citizens used to be able to make a living at, they no longer can. These people live 3-4 families to a house, or come as single guys and live 15 people to a house so they don't have the same expenses, they don't have taxes, they don't have to pay into social security. Most of what they make goes back to their home countries.

Oh I understand all right. I'm married to one so I know how things really are. I used to have the same attitude that most Americans have towards illegals but things changed. The scenario you describe above is a generalization. Or even a stereotyping of them. I used to work in a factory full of them and I also lived in a neighborhood where every other house was occupied by them. So, it's pretty safe to say I've been "submersed" in their way of life. LOL! I can tell you that most of them don't share a house with 3-4 families and most do pay taxes. We've had this discussion here before and I've explained all this before. Most of them are working under social security cards that were sold to them. In this area it's primarily Puerto Ricans that are selling their cards. When they get a job they have taxes taken out of their checks even if they max out the dependents they claim on their W-4s. The taxes taken out on illegal's checks DOES go into social security. It doesn't really matter though because the government borrows from it just like it borrows from everyone else's. Most people don't realize that illegals are actually helping fund the war on terrorism. Many illegals get Individual Tax Identification Numbers (same thing as a social security number but can't be used to get a job) and these are used to file taxes.

I personally have seen jobs such as stucco, roofing, drywall, landscaping, and yard care go from $10-$12 an hour to $6- $7 an hour.

This is true everywhere but still isn't an accurate picture of the jobs the majority of them are doing. Believe it or not most illegals work in factories, retail, warehouses, etc..

Not only that, when they do bring a wife they have as many kids as they can as fast as they can so they won't be deported because their kids are citizens, and guess who pays the bill for the delivery, immunizations etc of these kids?

That is another assumption and a silly one at that. The theory that the INS won't deport a mother because she has U.S. citizen kids is exactly that....a theory. Believe me I know. I've been over this with my wife's lawyer many times. Sure, the decision makers at the INS sometimes have a heart and some illegals are allowed to stay if they have kids that were born here but on the rare occasion that happens the mothers are still required to get a lawyer and "adjust status" and that costs thousands of dollars and usually involves the mother having to go back to Mexico (or where ever they came from) to get processes through our consulate there. It could take as little as a few weeks and as long as a year. I know all this because my wife will have to do this.

After they are established, they are not satisfied with $7 an hour jobs, they then work up into higher paying positions, lowering those wages, so where will it end? More and more US citizens are going to be unemployed or underpaid while alot of their money goes back to their homeland to help support infrastructure and family members still living there.

Again....that scenario represents such a small minority of the illegal workers but I totally agree that it is wrong. The employers should be held accountable. The affected US citizens in those areas still don't have an excuse to not find work. Who is forcing them to be limited to those kind of jobs? No one.

These people have no intention of becoming citizens, they feel the citizenship of their children will save them, or that they can stay until their kids are grown then the kids can stay, become educated etc. and they will go back home, be supported by their kids, as they have supported their parents.

Where do you come up with this crap? Again you are way off but since your opinions seem to mirror the way I felt before learned the truth I will explain. Plenty of them would love to become citizens. Most would give anything to even have a green card let alone citizenship. They come here out of desperation. Mexico has one of the most corrupt governments on the planet. Most are from poor areas with no jobs prospects and the few jobs there are don't pay well. Unlike our lazy welfare recipients here they actually get out and look for work out of their area. You ever notice most of the illegals are really dark skinned and look like Native Americans? Well it's because they are and they aren't exactly treated fairly. The Mexicans of Spanish decent have all the power and the native population is at the bottom of the hill and we all know what rolls down hill. It's pretty much what happened here with our Native Americans except the Spanish didn't wipe out as many as we did while forming our country.

Did you know that the Mexican government actually has programs to encourage this? In most Mexican states there are organizations of people who receive money from those members working in the US to improve roads, water systems, schools etc, those in the US send money back, then the government matches it. Good deal for Mexico bad deal for US

I know about this. It just shows how corrupt their government is. Don't think for a second that I'm an advocate of illegal immigration. I'm just more educated as to how and why it's happening than most because of my situation. I have sympathy for most of them. I just wish the border would be fixed so that there weren't so many of them. The ones that come here and work and stay out of trouble are a totally different breed than the ones that come in and steal, rape, murder, etc. and believe me the ones that aren't hate them as much as Americans do. If the border were closed, or at least strengthened, then much of this would stop.

 

[wkmac]

Nice Post Big!

 

[toonertoo]

You take all the people from the IRS who know how to get into every crevice of your life, abolish the IRS, put them to work at social services. Put them in day care centers, and teach the poor how to shop, cook, and clean, and care for their offspring. Then you put everyone on welfare into GED programs if they do not have high school education, and you pi** test them also. If they test positive you put them in jail and take away the benefits until they show clean, then you employ them to earn their money by cleaning govt buildings, roads, etc. You take the children and reopen the childrens homes until their parents are clean and can care for them. If their children are not in school you fine them. And you put them into the homes until their parents can make them go as responsible parents should. Anyone who quits school gets no govt help. You also put them in charge of helping the disabled with daily chores they cannot do. You make it undesirable to be on welfare. You follow up in the homes, you take note of what they are driving and what they have, and you sell it if its theirs, and they can have a 13 inch tv, and a focus instead of a 52 inch tv and an escalade. And you take notice of how they spend our money. Accountability. We just hand it out and never check on any progress within the family.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

You take all the people from the IRS who know how to get into every crevice of your life, abolish the IRS, put them to work at social services. Put them in day care centers, and teach the poor how to shop, cook, and clean, and care for their offspring. Then you put everyone on welfare into GED programs if they do not have high school education, and you pi** test them also. If they test positive you put them in jail and take away the benefits until they show clean, then you employ them to earn their money by cleaning govt buildings, roads, etc. You take the children and reopen the childrens homes until their parents are clean and can care for them. If their children are not in school you fine them. And you put them into the homes until their parents can make them go as responsible parents should. Anyone who quits school gets no govt help. You also put them in charge of helping the disabled with daily chores they cannot do. You make it undesirable to be on welfare. You follow up in the homes, you take note of what they are driving and what they have, and you sell it if its theirs, and they can have a 13 inch tv, and a focus instead of a 52 inch tv and an escalade. And you take notice of how they spend our money. Accountability. We just hand it out and never check on any progress within the family.

Accountability? LOL! If the people you have described were to learn accountability then the democratic party would lose a huge chunk of their traditional voters. LOL! Hey I'm on to something here. Maybe that's why the left has been pandering to those with little or no accountability all of these years? It's all so clear to me now. LOL! Thanks for the boost Tooner!