Ok so I’m very curious as to what it’s gonna take

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
Same old tired accusations with no basis in fact. So you're saying one must be an expert on the Constitution to know whether it's being violated? And no one in the military is qualified to make that assessment? Just how many social programs must one be enrolled in? Social Security benefits everyone willing to work, not just me. And a lot of people who can't work. Why are you against it is the question? Why won't you let a Republican praise the program? We aren't allowed? Guess what? I'm in a country that's got tremendous financial problems yet literally everyone I meet here are kind, courteous, pleasant to deal with. If I didn't know better I'd swear they are Mormons. You wouldn't last here without a serious attitude adjustment.
He’s a miserable FedEx worker
 

Turdferguson

Just a turd
Marxists.
Ehep8BhWoAIrvcN.jpg
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
Clearly you do not want a representative democracy.

I don't either.

Without our Constitutional Republic there would be no United States.
Representatives of the several States would have never agreed to join together under those circumstances.
Period.

Our Federal government is not a democracy, your State government is.

I really get pissed when people refer to our Federal government as a democracy.
They show their ignorance and you are one of them.

I feel better now.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
I don't either.

Without our Constitutional Republic there would be no United States.
Representatives of the several States would have never agreed to join together under those circumstances.
Period.

Our Federal government is not a democracy, your State government is.

I really get pissed when people refer to our Federal government as a democracy.
They show their ignorance and you are one of them.

I feel better now.

"Article IV, Section 4: The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."

When you say "your state government is (a democracy)", how do you see that fitting in with this?
 

DriveInDriveOut

Living rent free in Susie's mind
But a federal court system stacked with conservative judges is ok in your opinion? You're the guy talking about all the military personnel who will join in a civil war not me. Now as far as the Constitution goes....do you have a juris degree? Taken the bar exam in one or more states? How many constitutional cases have you argued in state or federal court? Just simply leave constitutional law matters in the hands of those who have spent their entire lives in that discipline.

Clearly you do not want a representative democracy. What you want is a white nationalist Christian autocracy that never has to go before the voters. And you obviously do not want a president that has to answer to rule of law but rather a king who answers to nobody.

And once again you identify those social programs that will benefit you either presently or in the near future but condemn those that are targeted toward those who are qualified but you're not one of them.

America is always evolving, always changing and you sound to me like somebody who is flat out simply afraid of change. If
that's the case then the solution is simple. Go to country where civil liberties simply do not exist. Oh things there won't change because the opportunity for change simply is not permitted by the strongman whose rule is never challenged.
Oh look another Democrat who has fallen for the stupid white Christian nationalist talking point. It's a completely made up term to trick gullible people. Sad.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
"Article IV, Section 4: The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."

When you say "your state government is (a democracy)", how do you see that fitting in with this?
Fairly easy.
The Federal government guarantees it will remain a Republican form of government, and will protect the several states.

States have Democratic rule, one man one vote, from municipal elections to statewide elections, even the elections that send their representatives to Washington.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Fairly easy.
The Federal government guarantees it will remain a Republican form of government, and will protect the several states.

States have Democratic rule, one man one vote, from municipal elections to statewide elections, even the elections that send their representatives to Washington.

Republic isn't just about how the representatives are elected. You can have a republic with a popular vote. More importantly a republic is about the rights of the individual that can't be voted away by a majority. So I read that as the United States guarantees that each state will be a republic, as the states also cannot vote away the rights of the individual.
 

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
Republic isn't just about how the representatives are elected. You can have a republic with a popular vote. More importantly a republic is about the rights of the individual that can't be voted away by a majority. So I read that as the United States guarantees that each state will be a republic, as the states also cannot vote away the rights of the individual.
Democracy is mob rule
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
Republic isn't just about how the representatives are elected. You can have a republic with a popular vote. More importantly a republic is about the rights of the individual that can't be voted away by a majority. So I read that as the United States guarantees that each state will be a republic, as the states also cannot vote away the rights of the individual.
Democracies have laws and rights, and by definition those rigthts are at the peril of the majority. Under our founding and Republican form of government, we view our rights, as derived from God, which cannot be voted away.
Those rights, innumerated in the Federal Constitution cannot be voted away, anything else is open to Democratic rule.
I direct you to the 10th Amendment to the Federal Constitution.

I'll offer two questions

In plain words what does this say
,the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

What does that mean, and under what process have they been eroded?
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Democracies have laws and rights, and by definition those rigthts are at the peril of the majority. Under our founding and Republican form of government, we view our rights, as derived from God, which cannot be voted away.
Those rights, innumerated in the Federal Constitution cannot be voted away, anything else is open to Democratic rule.
Disagree. Some argued against the enumeration of rights because they rightly believed people would wrongly believe that inalienable rights were limited to those enumerated. The 9th and 10th amendments, along with the declaration of independence, make it quite clear that inalienable rights were not limited to those enumerated. The only legitimate purpose of law is to establish rules of conduct where rights might overlap and conflict with each other, or to establish punishments for particular violations of rights. Any violation of rights, be it by the state or an indici5dual, is already necessarily a criminal act. Laws declaring murder illegal are somewhat redundant.

I direct you to the 10th Amendment to the Federal Constitution.

I'll offer two questions

In plain words what does this say
,the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
It means what it says and all regulation that makes gun ownership difficult at all are void. State or federal.

What does that mean, and under what process have they been eroded?
Illegitimate means.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
Republics are constitutional democracies. They operate on democratic principles, which is how the comfusion creeps in to the discourse, but republics constrain the power of the mob and of the decision makers alike.
I disagree, at least pertaining to our Republic. If we were a democracy, with or without a constitution there would be no electoral vote, no republic or democracy or united states.

What a joke, the other half of the "decision makers" want to destroy the electoral college to get popular vote and would dismantle the Constitution.

Wrote President Obama in The Audacity of Hope, "I have to side with Justice Breyer's view of the Constitution -- that it is not a static but rather a living document, and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world."
 

Mattmac0912

Well-Known Member
I disagree, at least pertaining to our Republic. If we were a democracy, with or without a constitution there would be no electoral vote, no republic or democracy or united states.

What a joke, the other half of the "decision makers" want to destroy the electoral college to get popular vote and would dismantle the Constitution.

Wrote President Obama in The Audacity of Hope, "I have to side with Justice Breyer's view of the Constitution -- that it is not a static but rather a living document, and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world."
Wonder if Obummer has a living mortgage for his palace at Martha’s Vineyard
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
I disagree, at least pertaining to our Republic. If we were a democracy, with or without a constitution there would be no electoral vote, no republic or democracy or united states.

What a joke, the other half of the "decision makers" want to destroy the electoral college to get popular vote and would dismantle the Constitution.

Wrote President Obama in The Audacity of Hope, "I have to side with Justice Breyer's view of the Constitution -- that it is not a static but rather a living document, and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world."

You are describing a direct democracy. We are a constitutional democracy, aka a Republic, which happens to use an electoral college to elect our president. We could have established a popular vote for president, and it wouldn't change our status as a Republic.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You are describing a direct democracy. We are a constitutional democracy, aka a Republic, which happens to use an electoral college to elect our president. We could have established a popular vote for president, and it wouldn't change our status as a Republic.
But it would make the bigger population states more powerful than they are now.
 
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