How would you treat this accident and why

[tieguy]

Dearest Tie
d

Sweetums I'm sorry did appear that you listed quite a few reasons you felt you had to blame this person "management" whoever he is for your problems at UPS.

In either case you and trick have done a nice job of avoiding the defensive driving personal accountability issue in this subject. Until you do I can't help you. Its not something I'm not used to. I often find the loudmouth who screams how the company does not care about safety is the first one to tuck and run when I discuss personal accountability with him. It did appear that you followed that script. Trick definitely did. In fact I'm starting to wonder if trick actually ever drove anything since he does not seem to know much about defensive driving and avoids the subject at all costs.

Thats okay though whatever rocks you boat. Don't start the dialogue if you're not willing to recieve some honest answers.

 

[dannyboy]

Damn Tie

I was trying to be nice, but you seem to have a problem reading my posts. Pull your head out and re read the post.

Hell, Im begining to understand Susies frustration!

d

 

[tieguy]

Danny,

didn't realize you felt the need to be nice or that I was not being nice. In discussing this issue I honestly think personal accountability what is missing.

 

[dannyboy]

If there is, then it might well be on both sides. Personal accountability goes all the way from the driver to the corp offices in Atlanta. The fact that you sit there once a year and let us watch a 90 second video does not training make.

Now getting back to the theory you have that the accident could have been avoidable because she did not check the mirrors.

You did not respond to my question. Had she seen the cycle two blocks back coming on like gang busters, should she wait to make the turn until the traffic behind her has come to a complete stop, or should she go on now that there is no oncoming traffic?

d

 

[over9five]

"...should she wait to make the turn until the traffic behind her has come to a complete stop, or should she go on..."

Is anyone a Trekkie (like me)? CLASSIC Kobiashi Maru!

 

[tieguy]

If there is, then it might well be on both sides. Personal accountability goes all the way from the driver to the corp offices in Atlanta. The fact that you sit there once a year and let us watch a 90 second video does not training make.

Now getting back to the theory you have that the accident could have been avoidable because she did not check the mirrors.

You did not respond to my question. Had she seen the cycle two blocks back coming on like gang busters, should she wait to make the turn until the traffic behind her has come to a complete stop, or should she go on now that there is no oncoming traffic?

d

First off I did not say the accident was avoidable I gave an example where it could be the fault of the motorcyclists and yet the driver could be charged with an avoidable accident. You assumed I past judgement. I don't have the detail required to definitively charge this accident.

second If it comes down to the mirror issue then she should not wait until all traffic would be stopped behind her. the issue would be did she have the opportunity to see the motorcyclist in her mirrors and did she check her mirrors. the article does not give us that detail.


Thus I took this article , I told you why it did not have enough detail , I gave you a possible scenario where you could have the fault and an avoidability determination charged to each driver and I feel you then assumed I had passed judgement when I clearly stated I felt there was not enough information to make that judgement. You presented a blurb of an article. Were I to investigate this accident I would be marking out the scene to see where everyone was at, gathering eyewitness accounts, taking numerous pictures and measuring out the scene from every angle. Your two paragraph article is not enough information to compensate for a complete accident investigation.

 

[tieguy]

with all due respect your handling of my response where I continously stated the information was incomplete yet you assumed a judgement in my humble opinion shows a deep seated anger on the subject that gets me a response from you I have not earned.

I deal with this subject all the time , I investiage accidents all the time and I think i should at least be given some credit for understanding this subject. I have seen numerous accidents where it appeared the other motorist had some type of death wish and ran into us. I have seen some where I questioned what really happened but could not prove avoidability. And I have some where drivers clearly screwed up. Most of these drivers were very honest and told me they screwed up. You will find an example in every center where some overzealous management person labeled an accident avoidable when only jesus christ could have avoided the accident. that does not disqualify the whole process.

Trickpony made the point that the company classifies avoidable and fires the driver to try to avoid responsibility for the lawsuit. My experience has been that we often pay for accidents that are not our fault. Some judge looks at the poor schumk that had the brainfart and ran into us and figures Bigbadbrown can aford to pay the guys medical bills better then the schumk can. Therefore we pay even when its not our fault. This has happened many times. So if there is any motivation to avoid the lawsuit it has to start by coming up with the answer that helps us avoid having the accident at all. Most of us in management do not have someone breathing down our necks trying to force us to find all accidents avoidable. We instead try to maintain the integrity of the process. We try to look at the accident see if there was something reasonable that the driver could have done to prevent that accident. We try to give the driver the benifit of the doubt while at the same time maintaining the integrity of the process. Most will not want to hear that but this is the honest answer most management will give you.

You previously said all accidents in your building are charged as avoidable. How many feeder accidents do you have in your area every year where a feeder driver or even a package driver hits a deer. Most if not all of those are always unavoidable.

 

[mrbill]

ARE ALL ACCIDENTS AT YOUR DESK AVOIDABLE?


ARE ALL YOUR THREADS ON THIS FORUM DONE ON COMPANY TIME WHILE YOU SIT AT YOUR DESK DOING NOTHING ALL DAY?

 

[dannyboy]

Interesting you should bring up deer. the last two here were charged as avoidable.

We have a bigger problem in part of our center with coal trucks. It would seem they think they own the road. And in some cases have run our drivers off the road.

As for the process, there are many ways to make it better. And why is it not tried? Is it that management is afraid of losing its dominance? Why do they not at least try to change the system to where it is a level playing field?

I mean after all, a roll away, and they did not charge him with anything?

Bill

Tie works many different shifts, and many times at night. So it would be very hard to pinpoint when he is actually on company time when he posts or on his personal time. My guess is only on personal time, as I have "known" him for quite a while. And while he and I might disagree profusely at times, I find him at the very least attempting honesty and integrity.

d

 

[tieguy]

ARE ALL ACCIDENTS AT YOUR DESK AVOIDABLE?




ARE ALL YOUR THREADS ON THIS FORUM DONE ON COMPANY TIME WHILE YOU SIT AT YOUR DESK DOING NOTHING ALL DAY?

another example of why trying to have this discussion is asinine. Apparently some posters don't think I have a home computer nor that I ever go home. While I appreciate the concept that I am somehow super dedicated to my profession I don't think this comment was meant to be that flattering.

People see management don't read what I say and make assumptions. The same ones that would cry like a baby if managment did the same to them. This message board is quckly becoming a waste of my time.

 

[dannyboy]

Just because someone posted an assinine statement, does not mean that the thread is worth less. IT has produced some views and discussion that are constructive.

So unless you are attempting to lump all the threads into what Bill posted ( kinda like lumping all management together)............

As for wasting time, could be. But responding to each and every post made to incite or excite you is a waste of time.

d

 

[Jones]

People see management don't read what I say and make assumptions. The same ones that would cry like a baby if managment did the same to them. This message board is quckly becoming a waste of my time.

After all those years of duking it out with the losers on T-net? And you're ready to bail over one clown who clearly can't even master the capslock key? Say it ain't so....

 

[diadlover]

This message board is quckly becoming a waste of my time.

 

[over9five]

"This message board is quckly becoming a waste of my time."

Don't even go there. It's not the board, just certain posters.

(I feel soooooo insulted!)

 

[palguy]

Hey Tieguy, we need different point of views to help us come to our own conclusions. Just because a few posters may disagree doesn't mean that everyone does.

 

[dannyboy]

See Tie, you have many people here that love you. So lighten up.

Just because we take differing views on the same subject does not really make either one of us wrong. Or right. But it does get all sides to the same conversation out in the open.

Which is what this site is all about?

Sincerely

d

 

[MissedBusiness]

"

Is anyone a Trekkie (like me)? CLASSIC Kobiashi Maru!

EXCELLENT Star Trek reference! The "No Win Scenario". EXACTLY what a driver faces when explaining what he did to avoid that accident!

 

[scratch]

Was Kobiashi Maru the Star fleet Academy test that Captain Kirk cheated at and won? Yes, I am old and am thinking back to the original sreies.

 

[wkmac]

This message board is quckly becoming a waste of my time.

Quickly Becoming! Quickly Becoming! Gee Tie, it's always been a big waste of time. Wasting time is the point.


You just miss Susie don't you?

This should make you feel better.

SSSCCCRREEEEECCCHHHHHHH!
FFAAARRRRTTTTTTT!
BBEEEELLLCCCHHHHHHH!
BBBUUURRRRPPPPPPP!

OK, that's 4 rude noises in a row so just pretend it's 4 posts from Susie and you'll feel like a new man!
with Tie

C ya bud!

 

[tieguy]

Quickly Becoming! Quickly Becoming! Gee Tie, it's always been a big waste of time. Wasting time is the point.


You just miss Susie don't you?

This should make you feel better.

SSSCCCRREEEEECCCHHHHHHH!
FFAAARRRRTTTTTTT!
BBEEEELLLCCCHHHHHHH!
BBBUUURRRRPPPPPPP!

OK, that's 4 rude noises in a row so just pretend it's 4 posts from Susie and you'll feel like a new man!
with Tie

C ya bud!

ROFLMAO. Ok. sorry for wallowing in self pity.