I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

rickyb

Well-Known Member
a perfect description of capitalism: rich people exploiting their workers and other people

exploitation: me doing $20/hr value worth of work, but only being paid $10/hr by my employer.
in the case of china its me doing $20/hr value worth of work, but only being paid $0.21/hr by my employer.

workers whose labor generates a surplus (an excess above what the workers themselves get back out of their output for their own consumption)

exploitation is defined as an organization of production in which the people who receive and distribute the surplus are different from those who produce it. Examples of exploitative organizations of production include slavery (masters exploit slaves), feudalism (lords exploit serfs) and capitalism (employers exploit employees).
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you value the work at $20/hr., but the market values your work at $10/hr. because that is what the job is truly worth. You increase your skillset and finding that $20/hr. job is not so difficult. Showing great disdain for those you have more than you won't raise you up in this world. That is what makes capitalism great is that the individual is the one responsible for his or her success in life.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you value the work at $20/hr., but the market values your work at $10/hr. because that is what the job is truly worth. You increase your skillset and finding that $20/hr. job is not so difficult. Showing great disdain for those you have more than you won't raise you up in this world. That is what makes capitalism great is that the individual is the one responsible for his or her success in life.
so why did the employer hire me in the first place if i am only producing $10/hr of value, and am only being paid $10/hr? are you saying employers dont profit off of their employees?
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
so why did the employer hire me in the first place if i am only producing $10/hr of value, and am only being paid $10/hr? are you saying employers dont profit off of their employees?
Get a job.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
so why did the employer hire me in the first place if i am only producing $10/hr of value, and am only being paid $10/hr? are you saying employers dont profit off of their employees?
So, if a company makes $20 an hour off your labor, what do YOU think would be a fair amount for them to pay you from that $20.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
So, if a company makes $20 an hour off your labor, what do YOU think would be a fair amount for them to pay you from that $20.
im saying the workers themselves should vote on what they should be paid with what they produced each hour. and they should vote on what to do with the extra money, and vote on how to run our workplace. that would actually be democratic.

get the straws out of our milkshakes.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
im saying the workers themselves should vote on what they should be paid with what they produced each hour. and they should vote on what to do with the extra money, and vote on how to run our workplace. that would actually be democratic.

get the straws out of our milkshakes.
Let me get this straight.....so you're saying that the owner of a company, the person who took the risk to start a business, should have NO say in how the money earned by his/her company is disbursed? Let the workers make that decision?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Let me get this straight.....so you're saying that the owner of a company, the person who took the risk to start a business, should have NO say in how the money earned by his/her company is disbursed? Let the workers make that decision?
no no. like if a slave holder does the work to buy slaves and tells them what to do on a plantation, it doesnt matter because society deems slavery unacceptable.

im saying employers dictating almost everything to workers should be just as unacceptable, and workers should own and certainly democratically control the jobs they work in by voting on things, including voting in managers if the voting becomes too bureacratic.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
When you get a job and stop sponging off other people maybe we will listen to you. Until then all you do is demonstrate your ignorance.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
no no. like if a slave holder does the work to buy slaves and tells them what to do on a plantation, it doesnt matter because society deems slavery unacceptable.

im saying employers dictating almost everything to workers should be just as unacceptable, and workers should own and certainly democratically control the jobs they work in by voting on things, including voting in managers if the voting becomes too bureacratic.
I don't know how old you are, but my child had more common sense at 12 than you do now. If this is what they teach kids in school in Canada, thank God my kids were born here. If not, you are an embarrassment to your fellow Canadians.

PS. Get a job or start a business. You're bothering the grown folks on here.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I don't know how old you are, but my child had more common sense at 12 than you do now. If this is what they teach kids in school in Canada, thank God my kids were born here. If not, you are an embarrassment to your fellow Canadians.

PS. Get a job or start a business. You're bothering the grown folks on here.
you came to my thread. YOU DONT LIKE, YOU DONT BUY!

said it before and ill say it again; if workers voted at their jobs would they vote:

-to pay the CEO 350x wat the lowest paid worker makes?
-to pay themselves a starvation wage (example: walmart workers)?
-to cut back on safety and harm themselves (especially like in china, but also in america)?
-to work in an environment they dont like?
-to pollute their own communities?
-to keep a boss or other co worker that a majority dont like?
-to over work or under work themselves?

the answer would often be "no".

democracy at work is an obvious extension of political democracy we already have. if u want to really live in a democratic society, it should apply to where you spend 40 hours a week...and democracy at work already exists in practice.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Perhaps you value the work at $20/hr., but the market values your work at $10/hr. because that is what the job is truly worth. You increase your skillset and finding that $20/hr. job is not so difficult. Showing great disdain for those you have more than you won't raise you up in this world. That is what makes capitalism great is that the individual is the one responsible for his or her success in life.
Shoe Polish Head wisdom. In other words, you are wrong. Capitalism might be great if there was a level playing field. Then, the mythical free market and Horatio Alger level effort might pay-off. Unfortunately, Capitalism is a rigged game, a pyramid scheme where those atop the pyramid exploit those at the bottom of the pyramid so the top tier prospers even more. Then, these aristocrats bribe and cajole politicians to maintain the non-level playing field, perpetuating the cycle.

Ronald Reagan was a maroon.
 

UpstateNYUPSer

Well-Known Member
Google is considered to be one of the more progressive companies and even they would laugh at what you are suggesting.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Google is considered to be one of the more progressive companies and even they would laugh at what you are suggesting.
hte most progressive companies are hte ones who actually practice democracy at work, like madison union cooperative. google data mines, works with the NSA against wikileaks, etc

heres a video of one:
Union Cab of Madison Cooperative
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps you value the work at $20/hr., but the market values your work at $10/hr. because that is what the job is truly worth. You increase your skillset and finding that $20/hr. job is not so difficult. Showing great disdain for those you have more than you won't raise you up in this world. That is what makes capitalism great is that the individual is the one responsible for his or her success in life.
What market share does Fedex Ground have to have at half the UPS compensation for UPS Teamsters to accept that the market values them far lower than they are compensated? Capitalism is a monster and "market valuation" rarely considers the human element. It is strictly based on cost management.
 

Baba gounj

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
you came to my thread. YOU DONT LIKE, YOU DONT BUY!

said it before and ill say it again; if workers voted at their jobs would they vote:

-to pay the CEO 350x wat the lowest paid worker makes?
-to pay themselves a starvation wage (example: walmart workers)?
-to cut back on safety and harm themselves (especially like in china, but also in america)?
-to work in an environment they dont like?
-to pollute their own communities?
-to keep a boss or other co worker that a majority dont like?
-to over work or under work themselves?

the answer would often be "no".

democracy at work is an obvious extension of political democracy we already have. if u want to really live in a democratic society, it should apply to where you spend 40 hours a week...and democracy at work already exists in practice.
Why compare America & China , but not Canada ?
 
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