I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

oldngray

nowhere special
Greece 'has no money' to meet IMF debt repayment

The Syriza government, which was elected in January on its anti-austerity promises, has so far refused to agree to key economic reforms that the creditors want in exchange for the rescue funds.
http://news.yahoo.com/greece-issues-fresh-warning-imf-payment-june-115223346.html

I liked one of the comments:
"Greece is the kid that lives in your basement that you just can't get rid of. You paid for their college and they dropped out. You bought them a car, but they can't get to work on time to hold a job. You bought them a computer, and they just used it to play video games. The more you enable them, the worse they get. At some point you just have to kick them out of the house and let them take responsibility for themselves. It's time for the EU to stop enabling Greece and let it default."
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Greece 'has no money' to meet IMF debt repayment

The Syriza government, which was elected in January on its anti-austerity promises, has so far refused to agree to key economic reforms that the creditors want in exchange for the rescue funds.
http://news.yahoo.com/greece-issues-fresh-warning-imf-payment-june-115223346.html

I liked one of the comments:
"Greece is the kid that lives in your basement that you just can't get rid of. You paid for their college and they dropped out. You bought them a car, but they can't get to work on time to hold a job. You bought them a computer, and they just used it to play video games. The more you enable them, the worse they get. At some point you just have to kick them out of the house and let them take responsibility for themselves. It's time for the EU to stop enabling Greece and let it default."

do you know the author of that article? have you read alot of articles that author has wrote, or are u just taking a gamble that this is a reputable journalist?

the germans stole way more gold from greece during world war 2 then greece currently owes in debt. and the greeks have asked for it to be repaid several times which the germans wont do anything about.

in addition alot of the debt is from the greek dictator which the US government supported, so that portion of the debt is erroneous and should be forgiven.

the greeks did follow alot of what the banksters prescribed and it made the situation worse. any honest economist will tell you austerity is madness during a depression.

the EU has a democracy deficit when you have bankers running the continent. the bankers have all kinds of money, they just dont like an anti establishment left wing party coming into power.

ill remind you if syriza doesnt succeed, then its very possible the golden dawn fascist party will be the successor.
 
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oldngray

nowhere special
do you know the author of that article? have you read alot of articles that author has wrote, or are u just taking a gamble that this is a reputable journalist?

the germans stole way more gold from greece during world war 2 then greece currently owes in debt. and the greeks have asked for it to be repaid several times which the germans wont do anything about.

in addition alot of the debt is from the greek dictator which the US government supported, so that portion of the debt is erroneous and should be forgiven.

the EU has a democracy deficit when you have bankers running the continent. the bankers have all kinds of money, they just dont like an anti establishment left wing party coming into power.

ill remind you if syriza doesnt succeed, then its very possible the golden dawn fascist party will be the successor.

WW2 and Germany have nothing to do with Greece's problems. That government spends far more than it can afford and has far too much of its population paid by government (which has no money of its own of course) and not enough people working real jobs to pay for those who don't. It's a shining example of how Marxism doesn't and has never worked.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
WW2 and Germany have nothing to do with Greece's problems. That government spends far more than it can afford and has far too much of its population paid by government (which has no money of its own of course) and not enough people working real jobs to pay for those who don't. It's a shining example of how Marxism doesn't and has never worked.

well isnt that convienent for you...and the clock!

i should add that after ww2 german debt was forgiven by 50% and extended so long that the payments were very minimal. the greeks were 1 of the countries that agreed to this.
 

sailfish

Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
well isnt that convienent for you...and the clock!

i should add that after ww2 german debt was forgiven by 50% and extended so long that the payments were very minimal. the greeks were 1 of the countries that agreed to this.
'Forgiven' is just a euphemism for 'eating the bill'.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps you value the work at $20/hr., but the market values your work at $10/hr. because that is what the job is truly worth. You increase your skillset and finding that $20/hr. job is not so difficult. Showing great disdain for those you have more than you won't raise you up in this world. That is what makes capitalism great is that the individual is the one responsible for his or her success in life.
Perhaps you value your work at $34 per hour plus benefits and Fedex shows it can be done for $15 per hour and no benefits. Ain't capitalism great!
 

olroadbeech

Happy Verified UPSer
I read in a business book somewhere that an employee must produce between 3 and 4 times what they are being paid ( plus bennies, workmans comp, SS and everything else ) just for a business to break EVEN on having that employee.

so if you were a business owner, what would you pay yourself compared to your employees?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I read in a business book somewhere that an employee must produce between 3 and 4 times what they are being paid ( plus bennies, workmans comp, SS and everything else ) just for a business to break EVEN on having that employee.

so if you were a business owner, what would you pay yourself compared to your employees?

the workers should own and control the jobs they work in. maybe they elect a manager or someone who has a more difficult task, and they vote and agree that this person will make more money than everyone else.

if workers ran UPS:
-they would work less hours per week if they wanted
-they would pay themselves more
-there would probably be radios in all the trucks, and the trucks may be more comfortable / redesigned / better maintained
-they wouldnt pay a CEO 10 million a year
-there would not be a ridiculous safety page you have 2 memorize
etc


corporations have enjoyed record profits since at least the 1990s. but i would not be surprised if small biz is suffering.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
the workers should own and control the jobs they work in. maybe they elect a manager or someone who has a more difficult task, and they vote and agree that this person will make more money than everyone else.

if workers ran UPS:
-they would work less hours per week if they wanted
-they would pay themselves more
-there would probably be radios in all the trucks, and the trucks may be more comfortable / redesigned / better maintained
-they wouldnt pay a CEO 10 million a year
-there would not be a ridiculous safety page you have 2 memorize
etc


corporations have enjoyed record profits since at least the 1990s. but i would not be surprised if small biz is suffering.

If you want to work at a company where the workers control jobs, then you are free to start your own company and operate it that way.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
If you want to work at a company where the workers control jobs, then you are free to start your own company and operate it that way.

part of the problem is capitalist enterprises create market problems for cooperatives because capitalists exploit 3rd world low wages.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you value your work at $34 per hour plus benefits and Fedex shows it can be done for $15 per hour and no benefits. Ain't capitalism great!

Good luck finding an experienced, safe semi truck driver like myself to be willing to work for $15/hr. and no benefits. I can locate them all day long that pay much more than that.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Good luck finding an experienced, safe semi truck driver like myself to be willing to work for $15/hr. and no benefits. I can locate them all day long that pay much more than that.

God, you actually said something I agree with. Is there a warp in space/time? This is precisely why Ground semi drivers are among the worst on the road. Low experience, a checkered past, or just plain unsafe...none of these are barriers to employment as a semi driver at Ground. Nobody but the very worst is going to accept Ground pay and zero benefits unless that's all they can get, and this is fine with Boris and Boris, dba as FedEx Ground.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
God, you actually said something I agree with. Is there a warp in space/time? This is precisely why Ground semi drivers are among the worst on the road. Low experience, a checkered past, or just plain unsafe...none of these are barriers to employment as a semi driver at Ground. Nobody but the very worst is going to accept Ground pay and zero benefits unless that's all they can get, and this is fine with Boris and Boris, dba as FedEx Ground.
Maybe the safety record will get bad enough to compensate contractors well enough to pay better. But don't expect a doubling in pay overnight. They're getting by and making a lot of money. They will continue to do so.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Good luck finding an experienced, safe semi truck driver like myself to be willing to work for $15/hr. and no benefits. I can locate them all day long that pay much more than that.

but down the road its safe to say the way things have been going , that even semi truck wages and benefits will be cut more than they already have been
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Maybe the safety record will get bad enough to compensate contractors well enough to pay better. But don't expect a doubling in pay overnight. They're getting by and making a lot of money. They will continue to do so.

If by getting by you mean killing people then you have a seriously warped sense of "getting by".
http://www.landlinemag.com/Story.aspx?StoryID=29089#.VWOQJUZXBVU


but down the road its safe to say the way things have been going , that even semi truck wages and benefits will be cut more than they already have been

Actually they are on the rise. Truck driving is in demand more than ever and trying to find qualified, safe drivers is very difficult for companies these days. Even our seasonal hires, last I checked, are now making nearly $30/hr. The company was offering less, but people weren't applying.


Its safe to say automated tractors are coming regardless of wages. If the technology ever becomes good enough that a tractor can be sent on its own down the road without a human behind the wheel I see that as the death knell for the traditional tractor trailer driver. Even if its more expensive to purchase than a standard tractor it doesn't have hours of service to worry about, breaks, meal periods, wages, or benefits to be paid. When UPS can put a trailer on the road and have it across the nation in a day and a half or less because the truck doesn't need to stop except for fuel then there simply will be no way we can compete. On that note though I think it will be decades down the road before a Tractor can be let out on the open road by itself without human intervention. Most of us will be eligible for retirement by then.
 
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