Management Opt-in

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smf0605

Guest
proups - you might want to get a new dictionary. I have yet to read a definition where naive is considered name calling or an insult.
Let me add this: you're not only naive, you're far too sensitive.
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: You read dictionaries? Then why don't you go and read the benefit plans?

But you won't do that, because you are wrong about this issue, and it is easier just to call people naive and too sensitive.

I can clearly see that an intelligent conversation would be, at best, difficult to have with you.
 
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devilsadvocate

Guest
proups

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I think smf0605 lives in a dictionary. she did the same thing to me. she need help.
 
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smf0605

Guest
proups - I am the benefits co-ordinator for the district. I am quite sure I know the plan better than you.
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: You are the benefits coordinator for the district, so you probably do know the plan better than me. I'll give you that.

You called me "terribly naive" in a earlier post on this issue when I asked you to present case law to support your claim, and now you respond by telling me that your knowledge of this subject is superior to mine.

You post these kinds of things because the truth is, you can't find anything to substantiate your claim! I've looked, and if you take the time to look yourself, you will find that I am right.
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Imagine that, the far more intellectual benefits person is wrong when they tell you something about a benefit!
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smf0605

Guest
prooups - you misunderstood me. I did not say you were naive for asking for case law. I said you were naive when you made this statement: You don't really think a company the size of UPS would do this if they knew there was case law that would provide their employees a chance to challenge them, do you?
I know for a fact that corporate lawyers don't follow state laws. I have spoken to corporate lawyers personally and told them of specific instances, and it doesn't seem to faze them.
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: have you ever paused to think that the reason the "specific instances" that don't seem to faze the corporate lawyers you have spoken to don't violate state law? Do you have a law degree? I don't, but I am smart enough to do my research before I post.

Once again, I ask you to give me case law that prohibits a company from changing a company-administered benefit. You are avoiding my request. Go look, it is out there, but you won't like what you find.

I wonder who is really naive?
 
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smf0605

Guest
proups: "have you ever paused to think that the reason the "specific instances" that don't seem to faze the corporate lawyers you have spoken to don't violate state law? "

One would think that was true, but unfortunately it isn't. We do, on a regular basis violate state law.I work with local counsel on a regular basis and they agree, as a company, we will eventually get caught not complying with state laws.
proups: "Once again, I ask you to give me case law that prohibits a company from changing a
company-administered benefit. You are avoiding my request. Go look, it is out there, but you won't like what you find"

You need to re-read some posts. I never said a company can't change the rules. I simply said they need to pay off what is owed.

proups: "I wonder who is really naive?"

Evidently I have to repeat myself. It is you proups that is naive, and for the same reason I stated in my first post.
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: let me help you out. Go to this link:

http://www.dol.gov

This is from the US Department of Labor. It is the portion of the Fair Labor Standards Act that addresses vacation benefits. You have to read this portion all the way through, because while it defines accrual of vacation time, another section tells you that an employer can change a plan with notice. UPS gave notice.

You will also notice that the Department of Labor defines vacations as "fringe" benefits. That gives employees little recourse if the company decides to change, or even cancel, a fringe benefit.

A little reading by you ought to end this debate. Don't worry, it is easy to navigate and won't take you too long.

By the way, glad to be of assistance!
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smf0605

Guest
proups -- did you read this link before posting it? These are labor standards for Federal Service Contracts.

Exactly what correlation does that have to do with UPS and the Cliff System we used until 2003?
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: Not "Federal Service Contracts", it is for Federal Service "Contractors."

UPS falls under these guidelines since we do business with the government and have more than 50 employees. We are considered "contractors" by the Federal Government.

Look again, and navigate through the site to see if you can find anything contradictory to what I have told you. I'm really trying to help you, but you resort to name calling and posting your opinions (which you are entitled to), not factual information (like I did for you).
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Besides, the Fair Labor Standards Act applies to all employers. Fact: minimum wage requirements are listed here as well.
 
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smf0605

Guest
Section 4 (which is the one you've posted) is titled:
Part 4
Labor Standards for Federal Service Contracts
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: you are getting there!
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Please read all of my prior post. UPS is considered a "contractor" because we do business with the government. The term "Federal Service Contracts" applies to UPS.

Now, get past the titles and read the rest. You will find the specific language that gave UPS permission to change their vacation plan - referred to as a "fringe" benefit.

You will also see that UPS does not have to pay off "accrued" time, which is what you are challenging.

(Message edited by proups on April 13, 2003)
 
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antimatter

Guest
ups tech: See how eventually you sell your soul down the river if you join the Evil Empire? Management-types admitting "We do, on a regular basis violate state law".... I'm a 27 year veteran and nothing shocks me at work anymore. I have never worked with such a collection of morally bankrupt individuals (Management Drones) in my life. If you have a conscience, and would like to be able to look yourself in the mirror and be proud of what you do, don't do it. And someday when you have a family, wouldn't it be great to actually be living and practicing the values you hope to someday teach your children? Granted, not ALL management are this way and I have had a few I respected and felt were effective leaders . But most couldn't lead me across the street... and I bet my experience with "ties" is not in the minority.

During this Iraq war, the Iraqi Information Minister cracked me up by declaring "They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any
place. They hold no place in Iraq." ...while the city was burning behind him. Would he be a great supervisor or what? :-)
 
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wvbrown

Guest
antimatter
YOU MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE REPUBLICAN GUARD TO STAY WITH SUCH A CORRUPTED EMPLOYER FOR 27 YEARS.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Oops you mean hes been working for a corrupt employer for 27 years? Whats that say about his integrity and morals?
 
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kidlogic

Guest
LOL...good one TIE. It has nothing to do with his morals. Most drivers goto work to please their customers. In the end they are the ones who pay our wages.
 
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ups_vette

Guest
logic:
Perhaps you could explaine to me how going on strike pleases the customers
 
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tieguy

Guest
LOL , good one vette. Yes logic please explain how you pleased the customers by going on strike.
 
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deliver_man

Guest
If my goal in life was to make people happy, I would be working for a charity. I work at big brown for a paycheck, pure and simple. I don't go into management because:
1. Even though it's more money, I don't really need more than I make now. Money doesn't buy happiness.
2. I don't want the resposibility. I rather like just working 8-9 hours a day, having weekends off, and not having to worry about whether or not anybody else is doing their job.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to go into management, just make sure you do it for the right reasons.
 
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