Management Opt-in

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feederdude

Guest
What is the request for vacation advance form?, and exactly what is it spelling out?
Thanks,
Fdude
 
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tieguy

Guest
Prorates vacation days. If you take two weeks vacaton in january and quit the company in february you would end up paying some of the vacation money back to the company.

upsidebrown some have had a problem with this rule to me I am not affected. I have no plan to leave the company anytime soon and I generally spread my vacations out throughout the year. When I retire I will still be able to take all my vacations due me that year.
 
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feederdude

Guest
Tieguy,
Thanks for the clarification.
I know quite a few folks that have quit lately, the company is telling them that when they went into management, they were paid off for all time on the books. This wasn't the case with me or any of the people that I know that came from an hourly position. If you sign this, you are in agreement that you were either paid for, or are giving up the vacation time you earned as an hourly. I, for one will refuse to sign this unless I am paid for the vacation I had coming to me as a driver prior to going into management.
If anyone has anymore information on this, please let me know.
Thanks,
Feederdude
barf.gif
 
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smf0605

Guest
Feederdude: I agree with you. I'm not sure how Corporate is getting away with changing the rules midstream and not paying off what is owed. This doesn't apply only to management employees but to all non-union employees.
And tieguy - you can check a clerical handbook, but it says that employees earn next year's vacation this year, so, in the year 2002 all administrative employees were earning their 2003 vacations. Now Corporate is saying that they need to re-earn those same vacation weeks.

Management has followed the same guidelines, but, again, the rules have been changed.

You're right in the respect that if you aren't leaving it really doesn't have an impact, but, it is still far from above board.
 
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tieguy

Guest
I would agree that it should not affect those already on the payroll who have already accrued vacations. I'd be interested to see if someone pushes the issue through the EHP process to an arbitrator.
*** Feederdude I had not heard that this ruling has anything to do with making the transition from hourly to management. ******
 
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feederdude

Guest
Tieguy and SMF0605,
I am, and will continue to be comitted to the sucess of UPS, but it seems that the flood of B.S. keeps rolling our way. This vacation accrual situation has me scratching my head. From the day we all started at U.P.S. we didn't get a vacation during the first year, this time was working towards the vacation time you were to take the second year, then when you decide to leave U.P.S., all time that you had earned for the current year should be paid in full. This form that is being issued is telling us that we no longer have the time on the books(which never changed during my employment), that we may owe the company $$$ if we haven't accrued enough time. This is an outrage, and I ask that we all tell the H.R. managers NO, we aren't going to take it anymore.
enough of my rambling.
Feederdude
 
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smf0605

Guest
feederdude: I tried that already. My HR manager is sidestepping the issue.

My next step is a corporate complaint.

Corporate can change the rules if they want to, that is their right, BUT, they need to pay off my 2003 vacations that I earned last year and THEN they can tell me that I am earning new ones.
 
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upsidebrown

Guest
I'm glad there are others that feel like I do. We get PCM's/email about everything from changes in contract language to driver releasing Omaha Steaks but NOTHING on this! I was told to print and sign. As far as filing a corporate complaint, I think you're asking to have a bull's eye put on your back. If we own the company, manage the company, and still believe in the company then how come we aren't doing something about our greivances?
 
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listenloud

Guest
Change of earned vacation from

UNITED PARCEL SERVICE INC (UPS)
form 8-K
ITEM 5. OTHER EVENTS.


A second fourth-quarter item involved the manner in which employees earn vacation pay. UPS modified its vacation plan to specify that vacation time is earned during the year, as opposed to automatically being credited when the new year begins. The change estimated a $197 million accrued liability as UPS closed its books on 2002.
 
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feederdude

Guest
I have absolutely no problem submitting to this change, as soon as I am paid for the vacations accrued from last year. Again, I know it's easy for me to suggest rocking the boat, however I won't sign this away, up to and including discharge.
Feederdude
 
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proups

Guest
Vacation plans are considered a benefit and can be changed at any time by the company - any company.

Furthermore, the vacation plan is company administered, and falls under very few, if any, laws.

The only vacation plan that is "contractual" is, of course, with the Teamsters and their contract with UPS.

UPS has the right to change this plan and is under no obligation to pay anybody for time accrued under the "old" plan.
 
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proups

Guest
ups tech, I didn't respond to your question. I got side-tracked with the vacation posts.

If you are young with no wife or kids, now is the time to take the plunge.

There will be a possibility of relocation. UPS makes those moves for development - for both the individual and the business.

The pay issue is non-negotiable. Your pay will depend on what you are being paid now and where you fall in the pay scale for management.

Divorce isn't the fault of the company. I know many long term management people that have been married a long time. They have survived relocations, long hours, etc.....

Good luck! If you do it, and do well, you can retire with a good nest egg.
 
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feederdude

Guest
Accrued time is owed and has been tested in litigation. The sticking point here is the Co. is saying they paid this time when we made the move.
Not true!
Contest it.
Fdude
 
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smf0605

Guest
proups - you're right that the company can change the plan. But, you're wrong when you say they don't owe anything,
If they want to change the plan they need to pay off what is owed first.
 
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proups

Guest
feederdude and smf0605: I would love to see the case law where this has been successfully challenged.

You don't really think a company the size of UPS would do this if they knew there was case law that would provide their employees a chance to challenge them, do you?

C'mon....born at night, just not last night!
 
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tieguy

Guest
It does beg an interesting question. If we start acruing 2003 vacation in 2003 what happens to the 2003 vacations we accrued in 2002.
 
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smf0605

Guest
That's a great question. One I've asked several times.
Sorry proups .. you may not have been born last night, but you are terribly naive.
 
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dannyboy

Guest
SO what is the answer. One on one, none of you stand a chance with UPS. Even if all of you band together you really will have a fight on your hands. Hell, look at my case, even with the Teamsters "looking out for my best intrests" I got rooked out of 6 years of service. So what do you do?

d
 
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feederdude

Guest
This is a form of theft. Could you imagine if you attempted to short one of your employees time owed. UPS would hand you your butt.And accrued time is not a discretionary benefit. If we act like lambs, we will end up chops. I don't like to sound like an organizer, but if we together let corporate know how we feel, maybe we will be treated like PARTNERS. When the ERI is taken, remember this kind of action.
Feederdude
 
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proups

Guest
smf0605: Naive? Hardly - I just do my research BEFORE I post something on a site for all to see......and I don't resort to name calling if I disagree with another post.

Let me help you out with a comparison - car insurance. Let's say that you have a policy for many years with the same insurance company with really low rates. Over those years, you pay out a lot of cash to keep that policy. Then you have a wreck that is your fault, you total your car, and damage another car. Can they cancel you? Absolutely. If you read your policy, it will be in the "fine print" that they may cancel you at anytime with notice.

Now lets look at the UPS benefit plans - all of them. They all have disclaimers in the "fine print" that UPS has the right to change the plans at their discretion. Hence, their right to change the vacation plan.

Before you insult someone's intelligence again, you might want to do your homework.
 
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