Michele Bachmans turn at the Stupid Wheel with Obama!
- Thread starter The Other Side
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wkmac
Well-Known Member
Did Bachmann learn from Obama and make a pre-emptive strike at a future "Jeremiah Wright" problem?
And as it relates to the marriage pledge Bachmann and Santorum signed and publically ascribed too, Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, Cain all declined it and did so publicly. I'm no fan of those 4 but they made the right call in this case.
And as it relates to the marriage pledge Bachmann and Santorum signed and publically ascribed too, Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, Cain all declined it and did so publicly. I'm no fan of those 4 but they made the right call in this case.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I do think it a bit unfair to hold christianity up this position alone. I always found Karen Armstrong's important work "A History of God" in pointing out the problem goes well beyond a specific religious genre.
I did mention other religions in my response to bbsam. Islam has at least as many sects as christianity, and judaism has a few as well.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I didn't see that until now but at the same time I thought I knew you at least well enough to know you weren't that narrow in scope. This just makes my hunch now empirical. Sorry my poor syntax gave that impression. It should have been
My post was not meant as much towards you but rather to expand out to a broader thought and move the concept of god out to a bigger narrative.
Karen Armstrong won a TED award in 2008' and in 2009' she spoke to TED on the Golden Rule ideal. It's easy to stand locked kneed and shout out our faiths or even lack there of (or even ideology which can be another form of faith) but I thought the points she made were excellent and perfect for the times. Buried beneath all the rhetoric and shouting is the commonality of the golden rule if we would only see it and grasp it. In a sense under that umbrella, no man is right and yet no man is wrong within the golden rule framework, he or she is free to discover the best life has to offer in his or her own way. Concepts or institutions that restrict or prevent us from this moral ideal IMO are immoral and thus lack standing of any true legitimacy but that doesn't mean they don't hold power. Rome had power but the moral teachings of christ held legitimacy. It's the difference between a leader and a ruler. One asserts voluntaryism and the other authoritarianism.
As to atheists, god may not really be dead, it's just that society may not be letting god grow and evolve as the wonders of life and creation are understood and grasped at ever deeping levels.
jmo
What I don't understand is exactly what people consider "organized religion" and does one not have to almost sample all sects to get to a position of flat-out denial? I doubt seriously that a Sunday school level idea of religion or religious principles would serve me well today, but theology, religious history, and even Christology goes far deeper than that if I am interested enough to pursue that study. Don't think the world was created in 7 days? Fine. Neither do I. But that does not negate my Christianity in the least. Religion is not the enemy of science (nor vice versa) in any way shape or form even though there are those on both sides who would have that believed.
From my perspective it would be more correct to say that god only exists because mankind interprets him. As a supernatural being he only exists because people believe in the supernatural. It should go without saying that I don't mean "exist" in any literal sense.
trplnkl
555
Well, I can't speak for anyone else that uses the term "organized religion" but to me it includes any religion (brand name) that mankind has organized into an establishment with a set of rules that everyone must adhere to or face the damnation of God, particularly if those rules are backed up by twisting and manipulation of the text of the bible. IMO, the earth being created in 7 days or not is irrelevant to just about anything as far as a life after death is concerned. Without really wanting to debate the legitimacy of the seven days, who's to say that a day is twenty-four hours and is that even important.
Don't know if you got the impression that I was trying to negate your Christianity but I assure you, I was not. Whether your faith is sufficient or not is between you and God just as mine is as well. It's hard to tell if religion and science are enemies or just a debate between those polarized from both sides based on preconceived notions. Just as I believe that organized religions have flaws, I believe science does too.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
In order to say "organized religion" is wrong in it's entirety, yes, you would have to know or at least sample it all. Most people when they speak of organized religion in western traditions, it is a generic term pertaining to organized western traditions. I'd guess for example very few of us here have much experience outside the 3 Abrahamic traditions so when it's said here "organized religions" I just default to those 3 faiths alone.
When it comes to all the faiths, gods, etc. in the world, all of us here are 99% atheist and maybe a few just go one god more!
When you look at how big belief in god can go, the difference between a monotheist and an atheist is quite small after all.
I've always said that the only practical difference is that I usually have a little more free time on Sunday. Outside of that our lives, cares, worries, etc are pretty much the same.In order to say "organized religion" is wrong in it's entirety, yes, you would have to know or at least sample it all. Most people when they speak of organized religion in western traditions, it is a generic term pertaining to organized western traditions. I'd guess for example very few of us here have much experience outside the 3 Abrahamic traditions so when it's said here "organized religions" I just default to those 3 faiths alone.
When it comes to all the faiths, gods, etc. in the world, all of us here are 99% atheist and maybe a few just go one god more!
When you look at how big belief in god can go, the difference between a monotheist and an atheist is quite small after all.
trplnkl
555
The real difference is, I have hope of a life after death and you only hope to make to tomorrow. BTW, I have as much free sunday time as you do.
I do think that one of the actual benefits of religion is that it brings comfort to people by giving them hope for something better, and I've never had a problem with that as far as it goes.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I think in many respects, the majority of people are well served by that. I do believe it served my wife and I well early in our lives to ground us and it gave great value but over time and study, it all came apart the deeper I looked at it.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Michelle Bachmann, put a fork in her. She's done!
If it wasn't this it would have been something else. Cain is busy self destructing as well. Romney might be able to put it in cruise control at this point.
Migraines are very debilitating and I know several people who suffer from them and they could be layed up in the dard for days.
The reality besides the headaches, is that her negatives continues to rise and her popularity dwindling. Same with Sarah Palin, her negatives are over 80% with the republican base and her fund raising has started to shrink. Her last quarter fund raising was way short of where they thought it would be and that can be directly attributed to her negatives.
Bachman will follow this same trend in the coming months. Her husband is starting to bring her unwanted attention.
Peace.
The reality besides the headaches, is that her negatives continues to rise and her popularity dwindling. Same with Sarah Palin, her negatives are over 80% with the republican base and her fund raising has started to shrink. Her last quarter fund raising was way short of where they thought it would be and that can be directly attributed to her negatives.
Bachman will follow this same trend in the coming months. Her husband is starting to bring her unwanted attention.
Peace.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
A recent poll I saw (WSJ I think) showed Pawlenty dropped to 2% and now Cain who had been a rising star in double digits is dropping fast now at 5%. Wave buh-bye to them.
If everything stay status quo, yes, Romney is the nominee.
