You forgot Nazi,Communist,Married to a Man,mom posed in nudie mags,his father is not his father,terrorist,mind control,death camps,death panels,apologizer. I'm sure I'm missing a few. Funny thing they are crying about 4 people who died in Benghazi,but not a word about Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US was the President's Daily Brief prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency and given to U.S. President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. The brief warned of terrorism threats from Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda 36 days before the September 11, 2001 attacks
Mr. Smith attends Obama"s meeting on fiscal cliff deficit
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Article about CA farmers are fearing they will not have enough workers to tend their crops this year and are looking for loosening work visa's.
See Repubs talk about free market this and that, markets are never wrong. But it's only when it benefits them. The free market is working here, just from the other end. What is being said is "You have to pay people more to work in fields", end of story. That is what the market is bearing. If food goes up, it goes up. That is the free market to. Food should go up, that is why there was a thing known as wage increases and cost of living increases, the system was designed for a continuing rise in cost and salaries, but now only somethings do (shipping) and other things don't (like food by an large). So they've bastardized their own free market with twisting/breaking laws to get people to work beneath said legal minimums. Then after a couple of generations, American's are afraid of the jobs as they've been weaned out of them and now I see Mexicans no longer want them, many are now above it to and good for them. But way to mess up the food market, no one wants the job anymore and to get Americans to to do it, is going to be a major system shock in pay scale adjustment, what $15-$20 an hour? What is so bad with that wage? Sounds like where it should have been. So breaking the rules, not respecting the free market gets you what you deserve I suppose, buys you time today, for hell tomorrow.
There were comments on the article that made me laugh. "If they don't have enough workers to tend the crops, why are they planting them!", I found that logically funny.
See Repubs talk about free market this and that, markets are never wrong. But it's only when it benefits them. The free market is working here, just from the other end. What is being said is "You have to pay people more to work in fields", end of story. That is what the market is bearing. If food goes up, it goes up. That is the free market to. Food should go up, that is why there was a thing known as wage increases and cost of living increases, the system was designed for a continuing rise in cost and salaries, but now only somethings do (shipping) and other things don't (like food by an large). So they've bastardized their own free market with twisting/breaking laws to get people to work beneath said legal minimums. Then after a couple of generations, American's are afraid of the jobs as they've been weaned out of them and now I see Mexicans no longer want them, many are now above it to and good for them. But way to mess up the food market, no one wants the job anymore and to get Americans to to do it, is going to be a major system shock in pay scale adjustment, what $15-$20 an hour? What is so bad with that wage? Sounds like where it should have been. So breaking the rules, not respecting the free market gets you what you deserve I suppose, buys you time today, for hell tomorrow.
There were comments on the article that made me laugh. "If they don't have enough workers to tend the crops, why are they planting them!", I found that logically funny.
hypo hanna
Well-Known Member
Wrong again. Never been fired from FedEx or any other company. And it's not FOX's conservatism so much as their collective sanity I question.
On what planet do you live? There are plenty of Hispanics who will gladly take those jobs. They are willing to work. And thank goodness because very few Americans are willing to do that. I've said all along that there should be a guest worker program with decent pay as well as the ability to collect Social Security some day if they put in the required number of quarters. I've actually lived in 3 places on the border, have Hispanic relatives, and am not lily white myself. But I learned early on that I must work hard and depend on myself. I've never condoned the exploitation of others, nor do I expect others doing better than me to give up part of their income so I can live well. And don't act so high and mighty because you want illegals turned into citizens so that their vote permanently tilts things your way. What I've said all along is we should have a guest worker program, not let millions of family members in who overwhelm our safety net. We don't have the money, period. It's up to Mexico and Latin America to develop their economies for their citizens, not us. And if you feel so strongly about it all, stop eating or grow your own food. Stop driving too while you are at it. You shouldn't criticize if you aren't willing to be pure as the driven snow yourself.
It's all about you, isn't it? I referred to a former coworker a few posts back who is an extremist who thinks FOX isn't conservative enough. He believes the election was stolen, the only Republican I've heard say so.
Yes, and nothing ever existed before Bush, right? Clinton was repeatedly warned about Bin Laden and did very little, even as our embassies in Africa were bombed, the U.S.S. Cole was attacked, etc. Finally sent a couple of cruise missiles into an Al-Qaeda training camp where Bin Laden no longer was. Whoop-de-do...
Snicker all you want, y'all are spending the country into bankruptcy, and we're all, including you, going to suffer for it.
Do you have anything of substance to say? Just curious, has to be something rolling around in there...
overflowed
Well-Known Member
oh ****e. Now you did it Lordtekk! Bible thumpers gonna come out the woodworks and this thread will go to page 50 in two days. Not enough to piss off Van? Come on...
In all seriousness everyone be safe and don't cut corners. I already see pallets of dex 1's in the near future. Happy Holidays folks!
Earth. The article stated they were having an issue obtaining enough workers. The reason very few americans are only willing is because they were weaned/pushed out by illegal wages/hiring etc. If they didn't even start that, the wages would be higher, americans would still be doing it. But they changed the course of history by ignoring the laws they had in place.
And illegals didn't cross the border to work during the Carter years, and the Clinton years? Are there no wealthy Dems in California with illegal housekeepers, gardeners? Only Repubs hire illegals? Illegal migrant farm workers have been picking crops for generations. Americans stopped doing it because it's backbreaking work that doesn't pay well. There's little chance farmers are going to pay $20 hr because they don't get enough from brokers to pay that and make a living themselves. Just the way it is, and food in this country isn't cheap now. You'd have riots if the poor can't afford to buy food.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Or the farmers and brokers would need to accept lower profit margins. But that's un American and socialistic right? When are you republicans going to realize you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Farmers have high profit margins? Do you not realize how many middle men there are getting food from fields to your table? Save your self righteous prattle until you learn how the real world works. Typical...you want people to start businesses, work hard to grow businesses, add workers as needed, then give everything to the workers while taking on all the risk and responsibility of running the business themselves. This is the, IMO, single biggest driver of the clash of economic ideas out there and is tearing at the very fabric of the country because some very vocal people can't stand that some do better than others, even though most of those who do better do so by taking risks and shouldering responsibility. Are there those that abuse the system? Of course. But most are just hard working people who are rewarded for their efforts. It's the reason Capitalist countries have plenty on their shelves, have the goods and services wanted and needed. But you just can't take the human element of envy out of it, and that's at the base of this need to attack everyone who's doing better than you are.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
They certainly do have high margins as I del to both farmers and brokers. Even with all the middle men getting a piece of the pie these farmers are some of the wealthiest people in my area and a lot of the brokers make six figures +.In my opinion agriculture is one of the most exploited industries in the country at the field worker's expense. It's not about getting rich for the average worker just a livable wage and benefits for the work being done. But you republicans want to demonize the average worker and that's why you lost the election. I know how the real world works because I see it every day and don't get my information from fox news or Mr. Limbaugh.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
This sounds a lot like the Horatio Alger/American Exceptionalism argument. The trouble is that opportunity is not equal. When it is, then perhaps it will hold water. Did I have the same level of opportunity to start a business as Fred S, who inherited today's equivalent of $20M? Absolutely not. Sure, he took a risk, but 99.9% of us would not have had the opportunity.
Does the minimum-wage Hispanic worker who has 2 jobs and can't even make ends meet have the opportunity to be "exceptional"? Not really. At least not in the sense that Mitt Romney's son has a chance to be "exceptional" because Daddy paid for his education and then provided the seed money for a business start-up.
This is where the GOP argument falls flat on it's face, but you still embrace it. Van, you are obviously a hard worker. Why aren't you a millionaire too?
America was attacked on Bush's watch,the excuses do not matter.If it were that easy then maybe we can send back a Terminator to save the day. Excuses,Excuses,wow you Republics are full of them.Blame the other guy not us,he started his term on 9/12. Spare Me.
Again I ask the question of you,do you have anything of substance ? An original thought ? Not regurgitated talking points from conservative websites? Do you ???? Or should I use Google to actually find out where all of your talking points are coming from ?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
And what did Bush do after more than 3000 died on American soil? Invade a country and start a war which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks.
Was Bill Clinton born into wealth? Plenty of examples out there of people who started humble and ended up wealthy. My answer still stands, some farmers might be grossing $80k a year, some $800k, many in between. If they shelled out $20hr to workers, how much would they have leftover? If you take away the profit incentive to do better people stop producing because it isn't worth it. In much the same way there will soon be less doctors.
Does it matter that you and I aren't millionaires? Again envy is at the heart of this discussion. I could care less how much anyone else has as long as I have a roof over my head, food to eat, the ability to travel, take care of my family, have something to live on when I'm old. I'm against exploitation, but is it exploiting people who come from where they have no work to gladly take what is available?
People think of illegal migrants as desperately poor, living in squalor. Fact is many, if not most, aren't here for the American dream. They live many to a cheap home to cut costs and send money home. They use that money to build homes and businesses in Mexico. Remittances to Mexico is one of the top sources of hard capital that country has. You also have to understand the mindset of Mexicans(and other Latinos). Americans tend to look at some work as beneath them. Mexicans see laboring in fields as honorable work, what they do to make money. All work is honorable. What's dishonorable is not being willing to work hard to take care of your family. USA Today had an article last week about how Mexico is now a middle class country. About half the population is middle class. Much of that growth in personal income came from not only trade with the States but hard working people willing to take the risk and head north to take work, in all kinds of venues. We tend to think of a constant push north, establishing themselves here. And certainly the growth of the Hispanic minority supports that. But many millions more have come and gone, because Mexico is where their home and family is, and where they want to be. I've also worked with Hispanic couriers in Texas and New Mexico. Many were first generation born in the U.S.. They tend to revere their parents, who worked so hard to give them a chance at a better life. You see, Hispanics don't just work in minimum wage jobs. In South Texas for example, they are the doctors, lawyers, judges, teachers, police, etc. White liberals, while well intentioned, seem to always think of minorities as needing their help and patronage i.e. White Paternalism. But given the chance to better themselves they do just fine without the great white father looking out for them. And no, they aren't all millionaires. I don't hear the ones I've been around complaining about it either.
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American embassies and military were attacked on Clinton's watch. How come he didn't get rid of Bin Laden when he had the chance? 9/11 most likely would have never happened if Clinton had done his job. See, plenty of blame to go around.
