My Thoughts

BrownRecycler

Well-Known Member
1. People complaining about quitting union

Why all the sudden become a scab? Man up.

2. Not enough people voting

I think Teamster's plan backfire. Instead of people convince by the propaganda to vote Yes, people aren't happy with being told how to vote then double down and not vote. It reeks politic. They don't like it. Not to mention, these majority are people that are new and not used to union culture. They don't have an understanding of the purpose for paying dues and initiates fee.

3. Union made sure more union jobs are fill in more than the $13 an hour

This would no doubt brings more coffer to the Teamster fund.

4. Am still baffle that my local don't vote

I still don't understand even after being told by BA. But, who am I to judge?
 
Last edited:

SameRightsForAll

Well-Known Member
Let's look at the math...

In a 2/3rds situation, Non voters (people who sat it out whether intentionally or not) have twice the voting power of an actual voter.

This is why it's reserved for a Final Offer only and not to be used to abuse or game the election. UPS has made no such Final Offer as of Oct 5, 2018. It made a first offer and we voted NO on it, 54% to 46%.

UPS knows that the 2/3rds rule was NOT in effect so they had no choice to but acknowledge that the contract was voted down, which is was.

What happened two hours after this is unacceptable and a shame.

If the union is this divided then why should you care if a member wants to get out of this political machine. That's none of your business. If you like how the contract was rammed through without the approval of the voters, then you're probably a Yes voter and it went good for you and nothing else matters, but what if Yes was 54% and No was 46% and Hoffa called for a strike anyway. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL THEN.
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
That is what we get! No surprise here.
VastDopeyGermanpinscher-small.gif
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
This is why it's reserved for a Final Offer only and not to be used to abuse or game the election. UPS has made no such Final Offer as of Oct 5, 2018. It made a first offer and we voted NO on it, 54% to 46%.

I would bet that term "final offer" as it appears in our IBT constitution, is not specifically defined.

When such things happen in a contract, or a law, the term becomes subjective and open to interpretation. If the IBT and UPS agree on an interpretation of this as a final offer, there is nothing we can do about it.
 

BrownRecycler

Well-Known Member
How would I feel?

How about Nov 2017 election all over again. Yes, it sucks. But, Teamster is suppose to be about teaming not dividing. I wouldn't care if they left the union in rage quit but think it nothing but premature reaction.
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
I would bet that term "final offer" as it appears in our IBT constitution, is not specifically defined.

When such things happen in a contract, or a law, the term becomes subjective and open to interpretation. If the IBT and UPS agree on an interpretation of this as a final offer, there is nothing we can do about it.
You may be right, but Hoffa doesn't want to extend this. That's the simple truth. I think it's done.
 

wide load

Starting wage is a waste of time.
1. People complaining about quitting union

Why all the sudden become a scab? Man up.

2. Not enough people voting

I think Teamster's plan backfire. Instead of people convince by the propaganda to vote Yes, people aren't happy with being told how to vote then double down and not vote. It reeks politic. They don't like it. Not to mention, these majority are people that are new and not used to union culture. They don't have an understanding of the purpose for paying dues and initiates fee.

3. Union made sure more union jobs are fill in more than the $13 an hour

This would no doubt brings more coffer to the Teamster fund.

4. Am still baffle that my local don't vote

I still don't understand even after being told by BA. But, who am I to judge?
If someone doesn’t vote, they forfeit their voice.
 

Tony Q

Well-Known Member
1. People complaining about quitting union

Why all the sudden become a scab? Man up.

2. Not enough people voting

I think Teamster's plan backfire. Instead of people convince by the propaganda to vote Yes, people aren't happy with being told how to vote then double down and not vote. It reeks politic. They don't like it. Not to mention, these majority are people that are new and not used to union culture. They don't have an understanding of the purpose for paying dues and initiates fee.

3. Union made sure more union jobs are fill in more than the $13 an hour

This would no doubt brings more coffer to the Teamster fund.

4. Am still baffle that my local don't vote

I still don't understand even after being told by BA. But, who am I to judge?
So some how we come up with a way to make UPSers vote in record numbyand we are the problem. Laugh out loud
 

BrownRecycler

Well-Known Member
If someone doesn’t vote, they forfeit their voice.

Not the point that I was trying to make.

What I am saying, the amount of time and money IBT spent on Yes propaganda, they figure that it would discourage new voters to vote.

Political campaign makes people ignore more. Heck, I knew who to vote for but they went ahead sending me giant mail informing me any way.

Basically, IBT is paying money to inform those who gave a damn and annoy people who don't gave a damn about voting. This is another angle that I see this.
 
Last edited:

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
Let's look at the math...

In a 2/3rds situation, Non voters (people who sat it out whether intentionally or not) have twice the voting power of an actual voter.

This is why it's reserved for a Final Offer only and not to be used to abuse or game the election. UPS has made no such Final Offer as of Oct 5, 2018. It made a first offer and we voted NO on it, 54% to 46%.

UPS knows that the 2/3rds rule was NOT in effect so they had no choice to but acknowledge that the contract was voted down, which is was.

What happened two hours after this is unacceptable and a shame.

If the union is this divided then why should you care if a member wants to get out of this political machine. That's none of your business. If you like how the contract was rammed through without the approval of the voters, then you're probably a Yes voter and it went good for you and nothing else matters, but what if Yes was 54% and No was 46% and Hoffa called for a strike anyway. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL THEN.

If you read article 12 of the teamster constitution in it's entirety, it's pretty clear that they only put an agreement to a vote by the membership if it is deemed to be a final offer by the negotiating committee. The fact that UPS immediately responded with willingness to renegotiate tells us that the negotiating committee did a terrible job.
 

Hroller

Well-Known Member
Here's why.
For me...it was not about money....I can retire a millionaire anytime I want.
It is about representation of our future brothers/sisters and their place as a Teamster.
It is obvious that the union board does not care about us members.
They are only about themselves. Either a very ignorant or selfish bunch. Okay I can deal with that.

Basically this whole fiasco has shown that "big business" knows how to break a union. Yes it has.

Pay your dues to these ignorant a-holes if you want.
I chose not to. My choice. Call me all the names you want.
 

Skooney

Well-Known Member
If you read article 12 of the teamster constitution in it's entirety, it's pretty clear that they only put an agreement to a vote by the membership if it is deemed to be a final offer by the negotiating committee. The fact that UPS immediately responded with willingness to renegotiate tells us that the negotiating committee did a terrible job.

If you read the Constitution in Article XII it says "Final offer" can be determined by the Union, regardless of the intention of the company.

Art. XII, Sec 1.

"The Local Union Executive Board shall determine whether an employer has made a final offer of settlement, regardless of the employer’s characterization.
 

wide load

Starting wage is a waste of time.
If you read the Constitution in Article XII it says "Final offer" can be determined by the Union, regardless of the intention of the company.

Art. XII, Sec 1.

"The Local Union Executive Board shall determine whether an employer has made a final offer of settlement, regardless of the employer’s characterization.
They omitted that portion in Taylor’s explanation. However, I don’t even think he knows what that means.
 

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
If you read the Constitution in Article XII it says "Final offer" can be determined by the Union, regardless of the intention of the company.

Correct. The rest goes on to explain the voting process. It also leaves open the possibility of continued negotiations if the 50% 2/3 threshold is not met. They have a choice to accept, or continue negotiating. They originally said they would try to negotiate further, and ups said they would be open to it. Then teamsters said they have no choice but to accept the offer, which is incorrect. Maybe there is some wiggle room for a fight yet. I'm going to sign the petition to try and get them to continue negotiation, for whatever good it'll do.
 
Last edited:
Top