NMA...we were robbed

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
The title of this thread is "NMA...we were robbed"

This is incorrect, for the simple reason that we the membership voted for it.

I voted "no", but I wasnt in the majority. If we the membership arent happy with the contract we have no one but ourselves to blame.

The IBT bargained with UPS on our behalf and came up with what they felt was the best contract proposal that the membership would vote for. If we dont like it, then we need to inform our IBT reps of what our expectations are for the next contract.

We also need to ask ourselves what we are willing to go on strike for. Its fine to simply want something, but the reality is we need to be willing and ready to walk for it. That means we need to have our personal finances in order so that we can afford to strike if that is what it comes to. Both the IBT and UPS are well aware that the average employee can't afford to strike due to personal lifestyle choices (cars, boats, debt etc.)

If we the membership are truly serious about a better contract, then we need to start laying the groundwork for that now. Go to union meetings. Get your coworkers involved and active. Start building up your own personal strike fund, and push for a dues increase thast would fund a meaningful strike fund for the entire membership. That money has to come from somewhere.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
How much of that money have they losted all ready?

They have "losted" $3B for the first 6 months of 2008, which is roughly 10% of assets and is roughly the same performance of most other funds of this type due to the recession. This "losted" is only on paper and will be a memory when the economy turns around, which it will as our economy is cyclical in nature.
 

Mike Hawk

Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't full-time preload work again? You don't give a reason why. Because UPS doesn't want to pay the $28.15 or whatever the top driver rate is in your area for it? That's more like it. Everything else can be adjusted or negotiated including feeder runs.
My center is an hour and fifteen minutes away from the hub, so for volume to get here at 11:00PM the night before, it would have to leave at 9:45PM. I think the issue is when the hubs finish processing our volume, not how fast feeders get it here. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the argument.
 

Bryishre

ktm atv racer
i just want to know how do the old timers save up a years vac before retirement i thought it was you got a week sic and a week personal and if not used you were payed at the end of the year anyhow it is fair they earned it with the years of service and you havent it sucks now but when your there you will prob do the same thing i know i am
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I don't like to get involved when you folks talk leadership however....:happy-very:

In answering his point about organizing Fdx you reply that Hoffa will do nothing.

Yet the devils advocate may point out that Hoffa has been increasing your membership by signing up the UPS freight guys. And that advocate might say that Hoffa does appear to be fighting for the right to organize fdx employees as seen through numerous litigations he appears to have pending.

Thus the question why you think Hoffa will do nothing?
Lets continue to play devils advocate, was it hoffa that gained ups freight? Or was this nma contract with all the give backs and the cs pension buy out that got it?

Remember with the new nma the teamsters were allowed a free run at freight! The agreement came with a card check agreement.

We are working at organizing fedex, i personally have been out at fedex buildings leafleting and i really enjoy talking smack to their management team alot more tham mine. One day fedex could be union but if we follow the hoffa trend at what cost? What give backs and from who?

When jr retires he will rest his hat on his big overnite organizng win that he mismanaged the first time that it cost all involved under the nma givebacks so he can sleep at night. I wouldnt call this a win and this is no way a slam on our brothers and sisters at freight, but i hope they understand that sacrafices were made to organize them.
 

IDoLessWorkThanMost

Well-Known Member
My center is an hour and fifteen minutes away from the hub, so for volume to get here at 11:00PM the night before, it would have to leave at 9:45PM. I think the issue is when the hubs finish processing our volume, not how fast feeders get it here. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the argument.

Like I said and will say again, everything including feeder runs.
 

BleedBrown33

Active Member
Wont budge of of friend/T preload at my hub it has a 12:00am-2:30am and the classic 4:00am-9:00am. It can be combined no problem. Everyone has an opionion to what is realistic and not. We must raise new hire wages, who disagrees?
Also we do need more bite in supervisors stealling our work. The pension must be similar across the board depending on regions cost of living. We must secure a pension that is done off of a % and not an accrual. This may not be a need as much as a desire but vaction needs to be factored off of hours worked and not the same for someone who works 17.5 hrs a week compared to someone who works 25+ hrs a week.
If you have a better idea please share but there has got to be a way to force UPS's hand on friend/T employment. We all know that there will always be a need for P/T work for students,low volume loactions, and flexability in operations. I honestly dont know how many total friend/T driving jobs are actually out there, but with 420,000 UPSers and only 20,000 combo jobs formed is a major disparity.
Think if they froze hiring and started making combo's everytime a UPSer quit's,is fired,or retires they could knock down total # of employees and all the payments going into health & welfare. Just think if there were 100,000 combo jobs created that would bring our #'s to 370,000. UPS would be saving all of those health & welfare payments on 50,000 heads. The more they create the less they will payout in short-term and long-term, i know you will say this is unrealistic but think if they created 250,000 friend/T combo's, and driver(package & feeder) spots . There would only be 295,000 of us then they save on 125,000 heads.
I know one of the first shoot downs will be the union would never let it happen because that would mean less money in the dues coffer. So what most of them dont deserve the wages they receive. Next time around lets bump all of the leaders and package division rep's to $8.50 an hour and make them go through the progression we do. Better yet lets tell Hoffa Jr. you can work P/T for lets say 7 years then when you awarded friend/T job from youre members while all along you are receiveing the same wage increases we have received for every contract you have brought back to us. Then when you retire Jr. you can receive the same $2500.00 for 25 and %100.00 a month more for every year after like we do. Finally for the 12,500 cola he just received how about you split that among all that you have so jokingly represented.
 

IDoLessWorkThanMost

Well-Known Member
My center is an hour and fifteen minutes away from the hub, so for volume to get here at 11:00PM the night before, it would have to leave at 9:45PM. I think the issue is when the hubs finish processing our volume, not how fast feeders get it here. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the argument.

My old center in MA has a full-time preload 11:45pm - 8:45am and the main hub CHEMA is about an hour away.
 

tieguy

Banned
Welcome and greetings im new to the website but have always stopped by and veiwed the latest opinions.

We need to start coming together for 2013 contract talks and gearing up for victory. No more should the word givebacks be in our collective vocabulary.

That defies the concept of having negotiations which is a process of give and take.

This is what should be the minimum won against the machine:

~Pension-we should eliminate the monthly accruals for retirement.
~Proposed: remedy a mainstreamed friend/T and P/T % benefit. Lets say around the ball park of:
~Average will be of gross pay from last three years to determine % payout
*5 and out-15%
*10 and out-30%
*20 and out-55%
~an increase of 1% every year after 20 yrs to a max of 35 yrs

Are you asking UPS to take over the pension?We presently pay into teamster managed and in some cases co-administered pension plans. For ups to guarantee the payout the would have to buy them all out.

~New hire increase base starting pay to $12.00 an hr, also increase difference to all seniority employees

3.50 increase for all employees? Good luck. your union does not negotiate for the unborn. They know UPS will eventually up the starting wage to remain competitive.

*increases of
*$1.00 after 90 days
*$0.75 1st yr
*$0.75 2nd yr
*$0.80 3rd yr
*$0.95 4th yr

3.50 plus another 4.25 an hour? Good stuff you're smoking.

~The complete freeze of part-time hiring, when employees leave under any circumstance there job will be combined with the next senior employee in that center with desire for full-time work.

never happen.

*When all are satisfied then the use of part-time may continue with a check and balance of above coming every 3 and 1/3 years

*Further stipulation is that if a dire need for part-time labor presents it self employees will be hired on temporary basis until all full-time is filled. Then all hired will be permanent.

~Supervisors working will be a one week guarantee= your base pay x's 17.5 hrs or 40 hrs.

If anyone ever demanded the above provisions as a minium then all supervisors would shortly be working.

~Preload will be turned to a full-time job so preloaders can 100% sort truck for driver. 11:00 pm to 8:30 am.

Just like that? Regardless of operational conditions whether or not you get the loads there by 11am or not. Not to mention the extra time the belt is running. You want ups to run a longer span and burn up our energy supply even quicker?

~Minimum 5% match in 401k

Plus the 3.50 bump , plus the 4.25 bump? Your union will never ask for a 401 K match option. they like controlling your money as it goes into a leaking pension fund.

~Option to defer wage increases so health benefits can be 100% covered after retirement.

you sure? I think you're up about 8 bucks an hour with your minimum wage increases.

~Seniority will supercede= all the old-timers will always do lessor job by their choice. There will be no more penaltys for refusing to do unjust work meaning while completing juniors work while junior does yours.

LOL. Might as well run the business at this point as total chaos sets in.

~All full-time data will be divulged to local for pupose od governing the filling of these jobs in a timely manner, and all time that a part-time employee could have been doing full-time work will result in back pay.

pretty much done now.

This may sound like a bit much but it is not we are to afraid to ask for more and now is the time come together before more is lost

Good reefer you're smoking bud. Sometimes its better to remain quiet then show that you really don't understand contracts or the business.

Please i urge all to print this and post/hand out to everyone you know so we can all bring this to the table when next negotiations begin. Brothers and sisters this is the least we should settle for next time and hoffa is not even going to come close to these demands so remember this next election.

Could you put your name on these proposals so everyone will know who they are laughing at?

Signing out, this is the answer just believe and we can make it happen we are 420,000 strong!

you don't have 420,000 teamsters you have about two thirds of that number the rest are non-union and management. If you're going to negotiate a contract you may want to learn who you represent first.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
We are working at organizing fedex, i personally have been out at fedex buildings leafleting ...

Keep up the work on organizing FedEx...the long-term viability of UPS and continued high union wages depends on an equal playing field.
Every year FedEx grows and increases their stop density and sucessfully mimics the UPS operational model. Every year UPS is being backed into a corner with a higher labor cost to serve.
Union jobs and union pensions are dependant on UPS staying in business.

There may legitimate critcism of Hoffa but the bottom line is that he is not so much bargaining with UPS as he is bargaining against an industry where UPS's competition is non-union.
 

tieguy

Banned
More realistic asking prices and this is the least i honestly think we should accept:

~new hires start at least at $11.00/hr with same increase for all senior employees and similar progression as above
------------------------------------------------
~Still do away with monthly accrual for pension
-20yrs 45% of avg. last 3 yrs base pay

-1% increase for every yr after 20 to a max of 35
-new buyout option of $ 25,000.00 a yr injection into to individual 401k plan for retirement at 20 yrs for a max of $125,000.00 deposit.
------------------------------------------------
~Full-time checks and balance please feel free to add ideas but we need something to force their hand for more full-time jobs created.

-Here's an idea what about eliminating the overtime after 5 hrs and change it to overtime after 7 hrs. Im sure there are a lot that would be on board for working 6 to 7 hrs a day. More hours more money i would vote yes.

~We must demand 4 hr daily guarantee for part-timers. I will not back off of that one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Same penalty for sup's working
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~A vacation based on weekly pto accrual
-option days dont change
-accrual x's every 20 hrs p/t and 40 hrs friend/t worked
-1yrs =0.50
-2yrs =0.78
-5yrs =1.25
-10yrs =1.90
-15yrs =2.55
-20yrs =3.20
-25yrs =3.85
-30yrs =4.50
~No more forced payout max. of 2080 hrs p/t and 4160 hrs friend/t saved vacation
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
~minimum of 2.5% match in 401k max. of first $2,500.00 annually.
---------------------------------------------------------------
~all preload friend/t positions for service reasons.
-------------------------------------------
~option to defer wages for retirement health benefits.
----------------------------------------------------
~new wage increase plan or something along these lines.....
-1 to 5 yrs min. of 4.50% and max. of 9.50%
-5 to 10 yrs min. of 4.25% and max. of 9.00%
-10 to 15 yrs min. of 3.75% and max. of 8.50%
-15 to 20 yrs min. of 3.50% and max. of 8.25%
-20 to 25 yrs min. of 3.25% and max. of 8.00%
-25 to 35 yrs min. of 3.00% and max. of 7.75%

-skilled raise increase to $2.50 instead of current $1.00
-shifter pay changed to $0.50 above all others including sorters

you forgot the new caddy every year.
 

tieguy

Banned
Why wouldn't full-time preload work again? You don't give a reason why. Because UPS doesn't want to pay the $28.15 or whatever the top driver rate is in your area for it? That's more like it. Everything else can be adjusted or negotiated including feeder runs.

full time wage rate and running the belts an extra four hours a day.
those belts tend to use a tremendous amount of electricity.
Moving the loads earlier may mean the driver is moving one load when two would have been available later. Lot of cost involved.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
Wont budge of of friend/T preload at my hub it has a 12:00am-2:30am and the classic 4:00am-9:00am. It can be combined no problem. Everyone has an opionion to what is realistic and not. We must raise new hire wages, who disagrees?
Also we do need more bite in supervisors stealling our work. The pension must be similar across the board depending on regions cost of living. We must secure a pension that is done off of a % and not an accrual. This may not be a need as much as a desire but vaction needs to be factored off of hours worked and not the same for someone who works 17.5 hrs a week compared to someone who works 25+ hrs a week.
If you have a better idea please share but there has got to be a way to force UPS's hand on friend/T employment. We all know that there will always be a need for P/T work for students,low volume loactions, and flexability in operations. I honestly dont know how many total friend/T driving jobs are actually out there, but with 420,000 UPSers and only 20,000 combo jobs formed is a major disparity.
Think if they froze hiring and started making combo's everytime a UPSer quit's,is fired,or retires they could knock down total # of employees and all the payments going into health & welfare. Just think if there were 100,000 combo jobs created that would bring our #'s to 370,000. UPS would be saving all of those health & welfare payments on 50,000 heads. The more they create the less they will payout in short-term and long-term, i know you will say this is unrealistic but think if they created 250,000 friend/T combo's, and driver(package & feeder) spots . There would only be 295,000 of us then they save on 125,000 heads.
I know one of the first shoot downs will be the union would never let it happen because that would mean less money in the dues coffer. So what most of them dont deserve the wages they receive. Next time around lets bump all of the leaders and package division rep's to $8.50 an hour and make them go through the progression we do. Better yet lets tell Hoffa Jr. you can work P/T for lets say 7 years then when you awarded friend/T job from youre members while all along you are receiveing the same wage increases we have received for every contract you have brought back to us. Then when you retire Jr. you can receive the same $2500.00 for 25 and %100.00 a month more for every year after like we do. Finally for the 12,500 cola he just received how about you split that among all that you have so jokingly represented.

You are an Idiot to think what you have spelled out above!!....Maybe you can get a job working for one of the auto companies!!....like GM or Ford!!Good luck!!!
 

tieguy

Banned
Lets continue to play devils advocate, was it hoffa that gained ups freight? Or was this nma contract with all the give backs and the cs pension buy out that got it?

You seem to forget that ups freight is formerly overnight which told your hero ron carey to go have sex with himself.

Since the teamsters did have a hostile parting with those same folks it would seem that the devils advocate would have to reluctantly agree that Hoffa has been successful here?

I don't think a contract gives the teamsters anything. The teamsters already have the right to try organizing freight and UPS can not legally stop that. I'm shocked that you did not know that already?
 

MonavieLeaker

Bringin Teh_Lulz
You don't know what you are talking about, I am all for a better contract, but if we got everything you propose UPS would lose money, go bankrupt and you wouldn’t have a job. If people could get pension payments for the rest of their lives after working 5 years every plan would go broke.


Thank you for saying what I was thinking...Very true.....I honestly believe if UPS didnt have to put 6 billion towards buying out the old cs plan our raises might be a little better
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
You seem to forget that ups freight is formerly overnight which told your hero ron carey to go have sex with himself.

Since the teamsters did have a hostile parting with those same folks it would seem that the devils advocate would have to reluctantly agree that Hoffa has been successful here?

Tie in my area overnite was unionized before everything hit the fan under hoffa.
I don't think a contract gives the teamsters anything. The teamsters already have the right to try organizing freight and UPS can not legally stop that. I'm shocked that you did not know that already?

I understand that and we were working on organizing them ask any of the freight posters on here. I personally had driven thousands of miles in my own car and spent alot of hours as a volunteer organizer working on freight.

As you know we would have had to go through the nlrb and have a vote with nlrb reps holding it. But ups just allowed us to walk into the buildings and talk to the freight members without a fight. There is a difference with a card check agreement and holding a union election, im surprised you did not know this. Hmmm?
 

BleedBrown33

Active Member
These are ideas...im working towards reform and i surely dont see any of you brainstorming for victory in 2013. If youre ideas are better discuss them. Maybe instead of calling me an idiot edit my proposals. Quite possibly if we put our heads together we might be able to come up with a plan. If its too loud tone it down and express youre ideas. Also dont bash people that are coming up with ideas that might benefit you one day. Finally show me the respect i have shown you dont call me an idiot or accuse me of drug use or better yet any negative response. If I was on the other side looking in i would help...not tear down. Bless you bitter cruel people i will pray for all of you. Remember treat others how you would like to be treated.
 
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