Not Much Sympathy For Striking Chicago Teachers

Johney

Well-Known Member
Just plain stupid!!!
Unreal: Striking Chicago Teachers Union Protests Outside 9/11 Memorial Event…


Sickening.
CHICAGO (WLS) - Dozens of striking Chicago teachers are protesting outside a Sept. 11 memorial event where Gov. Pat Quinn is speaking.
The Chicago Democrat hasn’t weighed in on the walkout, which entered its second day on Tuesday.
As he headed into the event, Quinn walked through the crowd, which sang “Amazing Grace” and held American flags. He said “Good luck.”
The teachers marched over from nearby Curie Metro High School on the city’s southwest side.
Unbelievable.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
They turned down a 16% raise and want a 35% raise. Everybody in Chicago should be looking at their own situation and asking....did I get a 35% raise??
 

Richard Harrow

Deplorable.
Just plain stupid!!!
Unreal: Striking Chicago Teachers Union Protests Outside 9/11 Memorial Event…


Sickening.
CHICAGO (WLS) - Dozens of striking Chicago teachers are protesting outside a Sept. 11 memorial event where Gov. Pat Quinn is speaking.
The Chicago Democrat hasn’t weighed in on the walkout, which entered its second day on Tuesday.
As he headed into the event, Quinn walked through the crowd, which sang “Amazing Grace” and held American flags. He said “Good luck.”
The teachers marched over from nearby Curie Metro High School on the city’s southwest side.

Anyone else need further proof that these people are out of touch and live in their own little world?
 

TearsInRain

IE boogeyman
Teachers are now forced to "teach the test" or suffer the consequences

i never had to take any standardized testing in private school

i generally like the idea of public schooling over private schooling, but if public schooling in america means teacher unions and standardized testing, i say tear the whole damn thing apart and give it over to the free market

they blew whatever chance they had at doing something smart
 

Johney

Well-Known Member
I have no sympathy at all for govt workers striking. if their wages are coming from taxpayers, it should be the tax payers who vote on those wages.
I don't agree with their tactics. There is a time and place for protesting and striking,at a 9/11 memorial is not going to give them much positive reinforcements.
 

Richard Harrow

Deplorable.
i never had to take any standardized testing in private school

i generally like the idea of public schooling over private schooling, but if public schooling in america means teacher unions and standardized testing, i say tear the whole damn thing apart and give it over to the free market

they blew whatever chance they had at doing something smart

Amen. I attended private school, and my children attend private school. My biggest beef with public schools is that I have a fundamental issue with paying to educate other peoples children.
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
PiedmontSteward;

Your post sort of reminds me of the often-quoted union assertion of "a fair days work for a fair days pay", in which the union is always willing to quantify what a "fair days pay" is...but when it comes to quantifying what a "fair days work" is, it's a different story.

I see standardized tests like that, in that they're a necessary evil. Somehow, you have to QUANTIFY teacher effectiveness, otherwise there's really no way of objectively judging their performance. For example, in the case of the young teacher you mentioned, perhaps he was using some "innovative stuff", but when it came down to his students being able to demonstrate that they had learned "the basics" which standardized test place emphasis on - the essentials that EVERY student needs to know - he recognized that innovative stuff didn't cut it. Now I'm not saying that teachers shouldn't be innovative or creative, but if they can't bring their students around to learning the basics, then they need to be weeded-out.

Lastly, regarding you assertion that "Teachers in poorer school districts have kids that do worse on standardized testing", just why IS that? Granted, it may be true (and I'd be willing to judge teachers on the DIFFERENTIAL in such cases), but since when did "poorer" become an excuse for inferior academic performance? Maybe the parents ought to be made more aware that, simply because they're poor, that doesn't mean that their children should do poorly in school...and that, if they do, it's primarily THEIR fault. And if "poorer" families (I suspect in this instance, quite often - and unfortunately - a racial expression, given that "poorer" families of Asian and Eastern European background don't seem to have nearly the same problems with their children's academic performance) aren't willing to accept the responsibility of "bootstrapping" their children's education, then maybe it's time that society give up that goal as well...until such time as they ARE willing.

Sounds cold, I'm sure....but look what our education system has descended to. And I can't help but believe that the forces that brought it to that level are represented in large part by those out on strike in Chicago.


Oh, why not, here goes.

It's a fine and obviously preferable thing to quantify teacher effectiveness.

It's a whole 'nother kettle of fish to make those quantifications based on the measure of the reality these teachers are facing.

If you tie teacher effectiveness simply to standardized testing, that leaves out many parts of the equation, to name just a few:

Teachers are being 'quantified' based on overall testing that also includes learning-disabled children, ESL children, etc.

To just take the total measure of student test-scores is not a meaningfull number.

You may scoff about the 'poverty' argument that teachers are making vis-a-vis standardized testing scores, yet I find it perfectly rational. These teachers are being asked to make up the difference for so many other things which have nothing to do with education.
My wife works in the public school system in MA as a social worker...from your comments it's clear to me you simply have no realistic idea about the reality on the ground for teachers and students.

As well, one of the sticking points of the Chicago teacher's complaints is the push toward Charter schools, which, on balance, do just about the same as public schools (40% the same, 40% worse, 20% better).

Don't get me wrong, in the absence of an appropriate way to measure teacher effectiveness, I can see where folks would clamor about 'tightening down', etc. etc...(ahh, the somewhat Keystone Kops nature of Unions...I have no doubt that a bunch of teachers should likely be fired, and who would likely be fired without Union protection).

Yet, one of the striking-teachers' arguments (re: charter schools) is why in the world are you trying to railroad us out of our jobs to change the system to another, which, on balance, does about as good as we do?

(Unless it's about someone else getting paid, which is another conversation).

Hit me back, lulz.
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
That head teacher union lady on TV said they are close on the money , but still they don't want to pay anything toward their health care. Oh, and they said average $76,000....and isn't that for 9 months?

Nice word "average", looks great in a headline, are they using, mean, median, or ???

I had a friend was a teacher, the school district where she worked had the "highest salaries in the county", yeah the salary scale was, but there wasn't anyone making the 3 highest steps. They were there though.

I caught something on CNN about their average salary being $76,000. That's about double what teachers around here make.

And what's the cost of living where you are compared to the city of Chicago.

Again, that pay level was negotiated. There are two sides sitting at that table. Don't hate on the teacher because they were smarter than the average bear. :winks:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html
Educator salaries in New York | rocdocs
If you select Jefferson county and General Brown school, you will see a list of what every person in that district is paid. The teacher average appears to be about $58,000.
(I picked that school because I graduated from there)

I'm sure housing's a little cheaper than Chicago.

The nuns had 40 or more kids in a class and there was not a sound.....they were good!!
Seven Issues at Stake in the Chicago Teachers' Strike | Fox Business

When I went to school the nuns could smack you on the knuckles with a ruler, (or worse). Today in public schools if they yell at little Johnny they're up on charges.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Educational Success for a student starts at home with the parents. Its a partnership with the teachers and MANY PARENTS EITHER DONT GIVE A CRAP OR WORKING 2 JOBS THEY CANNOT HANDLE FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH THEIR KIDS DOING THEIR HOMEWORK. IF THE PARENTS DONT DO THEIR JOB AT HOME WITH THEIR KIDS WHY SHOULD A TEACHER BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?
That ends the discussion of standardized testing and teacher accountability. MANY SCHOOLS ARE JUST A DAYCARE CENTER.

Many of the middle and High schools are run and feel like a prison because many of these kids age 12 to 18 are just plain nasty. Hate to say it but I have been in many lower income public schools and the kids in 2012 are out of control. These teachers have a tough job.

Teachers and UPS drivers are not overpaid. Both earn every penny. I know alot of teachers and they work hard. YOU DONT BECOME A TEACHER TO GET RICH.:wink2: 76k is nothing in Chicago.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
"When I went to school the nuns could smack you on the knuckles with a ruler, (or worse). Today in public schools if they yell at little Johnny they're up on charges. " (blue)

That's part of the problem and seeing that everybody gets a gold star or trophy is not teaching kids about real life. ...also, wear a damn belt or go home to mom and you can explain why you are not in school!!!

Warm & fuzzy is the feelng today and kids grow up feelng entitled to everything without working for it.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
"When I went to school the nuns could smack you on the knuckles with a ruler, (or worse). Today in public schools if they yell at little Johnny they're up on charges. " (blue)

That's part of the problem and seeing that everybody gets a gold star or trophy is not teaching kids about real life. ...also, wear a damn belt or go home to mom and you can explain why you are not in school!!!

Warm & fuzzy is the feelng today and kids grow up feelng entitled to everything without working for it.
Not to mention, there are a lot of people pumping kids out, but they don't parent. Watching Judge Judy yesterday, a lovely young lady(not) was on being sued by her ex booty call. In it, it came out that she had an argument with the ex on front of her kid about whether or not he was hittin' another chicky down the block. Nice conversation at the breakfast table. These kids go to school starving for attention and structure. The teachers are overwhelmed.
This hits close to home for me, as I see a little of it in my own grands. :(
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Nice word "average", looks great in a headline, are they using, mean, median, or ???

I had a friend was a teacher, the school district where she worked had the "highest salaries in the county", yeah the salary scale was, but there wasn't anyone making the 3 highest steps. They were there though.



And what's the cost of living where you are compared to the city of Chicago.



I'm sure housing's a little cheaper than Chicago.



When I went to school the nuns could smack you on the knuckles with a ruler, (or worse). Today in public schools if they yell at little Johnny they're up on charges.

You missed the most important question:

What do the tax-payers want THEIR money spent on?

this is a simple issue that should be resolved in Chicago voting booths, not resolved by anyone elses decision
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Chicago teachers dump kids in the river.jpg
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
There is a fantastic documentary out there called "Waiting for superman" which is about our nations public school system and the problems caused by the teachers unions themselves. They bring up the point that in Illinois one in 57 doctors will lose their medical license and one in 93 lawyers will lose their law license, but only one in 2500 teachers will lose their teaching license because the contract rules governing them make it very difficult to get rid of bad teachers. These teachers unions have to go, they are simply not looking out for the kids best interests and our kids are suffering as a result.

Says the UNION feeder driver....

On principle, you should quit your job and work for another (non-Union) carrier...
 
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