Obama will make economy far worse.

[Leftinbuilding]

Who said you can't teach an old dog a new trick?

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Going to lunch. Clam chowder in a bread bowl. Catch you later.

 

[The Other Side]

Look for the stock market to crash under "O". With his promise to tax Corporations, and their inability (due to the recession) to pass the added cost on to consumers, investors will flee Wall Street. What sane person would invest in companies doomed to lower profits? This election was a disaster.

Leftinronpaulville,

Hey man, I see you missed the "boat" when it comes to market crashes. In case you dont remember, the dow was a bit above 14K before the reality of a false economy, high fuel prices, high food prices, high energy prices brought it down to the ground?

Maybe you missed the millions of investors dollars already lost? Somewhere around 15 trillion they say!

How much bigger of a crash do you think will happen under OBAMA?

Lets do some math. Make it easy on you.

The all time high on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) as of April 7th, 2008 was 14,164 on October 9, 2007.

Now, the low point of the current crash under George W. Bush was 7898.

Now, 14,164 minus 7898 = 6866 in lost points.

Now, the new stabilizer level for the DOW is at 8200. If you believe that under OBAMA, there will be a "bigger" crash, then the DOW would have to be in the 2K's for this to be true.

Now, anyone with a brain, excluding Ron Paul and his followers would know that this is impossible not withstanding a collapse of US society, business and another "Great Depression".

Unfortunately, you have "bitten" into the hook that the extreme right wing is selling. They screwed it up for all Americans, now they want to blame democrats for making it worse, as if they could fix it in the alternative.

Now I know that all the right wing kooks will come out and not want to accept blame for what their party has done, but that is to be expected.

Ron Paul has a certain grip on certain types of minds. Without insulting all of them, lets just call them idiots.

 

[diesel96]

Correct, it will get worse, but a president(ron paul) who can understand the real problem will make the " depression" less painful then Elect Obama..


this gig is up folks.

Blackjack is a game of chance, and the choice of the dealer was made......why speculate predictions until the cards are dealt by the dealer ?
Since the previous game was lost with the cards handed to anti-Obama supporters this election, why not re-shuffle the deck and have your boy "Ron Paul" (traditional republican, who does understand the real problem within his own party) take back the modern day Republican party from the neo-cons, evangelicals and big gov't spendors, then fire Fox News and give it a go for 2012. If Obama is still teetering after 4 years, who knows, you may get another shot at the title, but not with the current bunch of clowns now operating this three ring republican circus. The downfall of the economy has been brewing for years, only this administration excelerated it, and their supporters are already critizing a president elect who's only crime so far was picking a cabinet generally accepted by both sides.

 

[wkmac]

For decades, we've been living inside a bubble, here at the epicenter of the imperial metropolis, protected from the dire fate of the rest of the world's peoples – who live in poverty, tyranny, and worse – by the productive and political capital amassed by our intrepid ancestors, who built the world's most successful (and freest) constitutional republic, and, because of that were able to create an enormous amount of wealth. Both are gone, now, and yet we are still acting as if they're intact, like an amputee who feels pain in an arm that no longer is attached to his shoulder.

For example, the New York Times reports that President-elect Barack Obama is already backpedaling on his pledge to get our troops out of Iraq in sixteen months – yet how does he imagine we'll have the means to keep them there even that long? The Times tells us that "the officials made clear that the withdrawal of all combat forces under the generals' recommendations would not come until some time after May 2010, Mr. Obama's target." But by that time the Chinese will have long since stopped lending us the money to pay for it all.

President Obama is pledged to launch an Afghan "surge" that will dwarf our continuing efforts in Iraq – but how will we pay for it? He and his surrogates pontificate on the need to "reconstruct" Afghanistan, when he'll be hard-pressed to reconstruct the economy in the wake of a devastating deflation.

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13924

 

[wkmac]

I saw some guy from the Progressive Democrats of America on Chris Matthews, the other day, and neither he nor David Corn seemed to care much about the backing down from the 16-month pledge, with the former fixated on the post of Interior secretary, and Corn sadly nodding in mute resignation as Matthews wondered aloud how Hillary Clinton at State and Gates at Defense didn't undermine Obama's stated foreign policy objectives.

Well, then, what can progressives who took Obama's promises seriously, and the broader anti-initerventionist movement, do, concretely, to stop the sellout of the 16-month pledge? First, and least probable, pressure the President-elect to either clarify his own position, or else nominate someone else to head up the Pentagon.

This, of course, will never happen. In spite of all the bull-bleep about "inclusiveness," and "democracy," this administration's arrogance is going to make the haughtiness of the Bush era (I and II combined) seem positively self-effacing. These people haven't just forgotten where they came from, and who gave them their power – they are actively trying to forget.

As E. J. Dionne put it to the antiwar movement just the other day, "Obama made clear six years ago that while he was with them on Iraq, he was not one of them." I failed to note, at the time, Dionne's use of the past tense: "he was with them on Iraq." Whether intentional or not, this turn of phrase turned out to be prescient, as secretary Gates's comments make all too clear. Unless Obama disavows Gates, and withdraws his nomination, it's time to admit that, on Iraq, he was with us, but he isn't anymore.

Congressional Democrats are too busy pushing for a Universal Bailout to bother with the fate of foreigners. Besides, now that it's their war, how likely is to end? Like any and all government programs, its life span tends naturally to immortality.

You'll remember that the newly-seated "antiwar" Democrats, swept into power in the 2006 elections on the strength of popular opposition to the war, were talked out of voting against a military appropriations bill to escalate the war once the bill was loaded down with lots of local pork. With a little added pressure exerted by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the "sweetened" bill passed overwhelmingly. As the Blagovich saga underscores with comic clarity, Congress, along with everything else in the country, is up for sale – and the bids don't necessarily have to be very high.

Expect a repeat of the ‘06 buyout strategy, with the same resounding success; the War Party knows what it's doing. With Congress scrambling for free money, and the President-Messiah now expected to perform miracles on the economic front, the foreign policy realm will be forgotten, buried under the rubble of the US economy.

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13891

 

[wkmac]

Ron Paul has a certain grip on certain types of minds. Without insulting all of them, lets just call them idiots.

TOS

That's like you telling me my breath stinks after I've been eating garlic while you just completely ignore the fact that you continue to ingest and gorge yourself on your own excrement!

Need a Tic Tac there stinky breath?



Uh, piece a corn on your tooth there Sweet Pea!

 

[The Other Side]

TOS

That's like you telling me my breath stinks after I've been eating garlic while you just completely ignore the fact that you continue to ingest and gorge yourself on your own excrement!

Need a Tic Tac there stinky breath?



Uh, piece a corn on your tooth there Sweet Pea!

Like I said, idiots.

 

[out side cover driver]

Correct, it will get worse, but a president(ron paul) who can understand the real problem will make the " depression" less painful then Elect Obama..


this gig is up folks.

Then they should have nominated him.

 

[wkmac]

DECEMBER 27, 2008
There's No Pain-Free Cure for Recession
Belt-tightening is required by all, including government.

By Peter Schiff

As recession fears cause the nation to embrace greater state control of the economy and unimaginable federal deficits, one searches in vain for debate worthy of the moment. Where there should be an historic clash of ideas, there is only blind resignation and an amorphous queasiness that we are simply sweeping the slouching beast under the rug.

With faith in the free markets now taking a back seat to fear and expediency, nearly the entire political spectrum agrees that the federal government must spend whatever amount is necessary to stabilize the housing market, bail out financial firms, liquefy the credit markets, create jobs and make the recession as shallow and brief as possible. The few who maintain free-market views have been largely marginalized.

Taking the theories of economist John Maynard Keynes as gospel, our most highly respected contemporary economists imagine a complex world in which economics at the personal, corporate and municipal levels are governed by laws far different from those in effect at the national level.

Individuals, companies or cities with heavy debt and shrinking revenues instinctively know that they must reduce spending, tighten their belts, pay down debt and live within their means. But it is axiomatic in Keynesianism that national governments can create and sustain economic activity by injecting printed money into the financial system. In their view, absent the stimuli of the New Deal and World War II, the Depression would never have ended.

On a gut level, we have a hard time with this concept. There is a vague sense of smoke and mirrors, of something being magically created out of nothing. But economics, we are told, is complicated.
It would be irresponsible in the extreme for an individual to forestall a personal recession by taking out newer, bigger loans when the old loans can't be repaid. However, this is precisely what we are planning on a national level.

I believe these ideas hold sway largely because they promise happy, pain-free solutions. They are the economic equivalent of miracle weight-loss programs that require no dieting or exercise. The theories permit economists to claim mystic wisdom, governments to pretend that they have the power to dispel hardship with the whir of a printing press, and voters to believe that they can have recovery without sacrifice.

As a follower of the Austrian School of economics I believe that market forces apply equally to people and nations. The problems we face collectively are no different from those we face individually. Belt tightening is required by all, including government.

Governments cannot create but merely redirect. When the government spends, the money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn't have a surplus, then it must come from taxes. If taxes don't go up, then it must come from increased borrowing. If lenders won't lend, then it must come from the printing press, which is where all these bailouts are headed. But each additional dollar printed diminishes the value those already in circulation. Something cannot be effortlessly created from nothing.

Similarly, any jobs or other economic activity created by public-sector expansion merely comes at the expense of jobs lost in the private sector. And if the government chooses to save inefficient jobs in select private industries, more efficient jobs will be lost in others. As more factors of production come under government control, the more inefficient our entire economy becomes. Inefficiency lowers productivity, stifles competitiveness and lowers living standards.

If we look at government market interventions through this pragmatic lens, what can we expect from the coming avalanche of federal activism?
By borrowing more than it can ever pay back, the government will guarantee higher inflation for years to come, thereby diminishing the value of all that Americans have saved and acquired. For now the inflationary tide is being held back by the countervailing pressures of bursting asset bubbles in real estate and stocks, forced liquidations in commodities, and troubled retailers slashing prices to unload excess inventory. But when the dust settles, trillions of new dollars will remain, chasing a diminished supply of goods. We will be left with 1970s-style stagflation, only with a much sharper contraction and significantly higher inflation.

The good news is that economics is not all that complicated. The bad news is that our economy is broken and there is nothing the government can do to fix it. However, the free market does have a cure: it's called a recession, and it's not fun, easy or quick. But if we put our faith in the power of government to make the pain go away, we will live with the consequences for generations.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123033898448336541.html

 

[zeus2ez]

Peter Schiff seems to know the Economy Game.

 

[chev]

Frick (TOS)and Frack(Diesel) are at it again. Noses brown yet?

 

[wkmac]

The Crisis in 10 Points

The 2007–2008 financial crisis had its genesis in the United States housing markets, but it rapidly spread to other economies, first to the United Kingdom, but then almost everywhere else, including such unlikely spots as Iceland whose banking system collapsed. Because events in the United States triggered the crisis, this essay will concentrate on the US causes although they had their many counterparts elsewhere.
There are at least three long-standing background influences that contributed to the financial debacle that dominated the US economy in 2008:

http://mises.org/story/3263

 

[diesel96]

Frick (TOS)and Frack(Diesel) are at it again. Noses brown yet?

Is there a specific point your trying to make, or just taking random shots because your up to your ears in Elephant party excrement.

 

[Babagounj]

http://mises.org/story/3263

So since the USA cause this mess, everyone else thinks that we will bailout the world ?
I think not, time for some other world power to lead. Let the entire world curse someone else for a change.

 

[wkmac]

3 mil new jobs with 80% being in the private sector. If my math is correct that would suggest 600k jobs will be in the public sector. Since I've not heard of massive layoffs in the public sector, this would suggest gov't will grow in size. Where does the money come from to pay for these new 600k gov't jobs?

Since everyone is already tapped out, what we can do is tax directly the new 2.4 million private sector jobs at a level high enough to pay for the 600k gov't jobs. This means that every 4 new private sector job holders, they pay an amount equal to the total costs of 1 new public sector job hold. This would work as it would also allow the new budget expenditure to balance and would negate the need to borrow money and inflate the debt as Bush did. I mean, Bush was rightly condemned for his fiscal irresponsibility in both out of balance budgets and massive debt increases. Taxing the new private sector jobs directly to pay for the entire cost of the new public sector jobs would be a great way for the new President and his party to show real fiscal repsonsibility and setting an example of not living beyond one's means.


I look forward to watching our new President set such a wonderful example!


Did I ever tell you guys just how long I can hold my breath?

 

[moreluck]

Chicago....

Who Runs it?
Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Representative: Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Illinois Governor: Rod Blogojevich (arrested)
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan
Illinois Attorney General: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
Chicago Mayor: Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)
The leadership in Illinois ? All Democrats.



Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago .



Body count in the last six months: 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago
221 killed in Iraq



State pension fund - $44 Billion in debt, worst in the country.
Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax - 10.25% highest in country. (Look it up).
Chicago school system - rated one of the worst in the country.
Of course, they're all blaming each other. They can't blame Republicans because there aren't any.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois .
And he's going to '"fix" Washington politics for us?
Good luck and may God help us.

 

[diesel96]

YouTube - 01/03/09: President-elect Obama's Weekly Address


3 mil new jobs with 80% being in the private sector. If my math is correct that would suggest 600k jobs will be in the public sector. Since I've not heard of massive layoffs in the public sector, this would suggest gov't will grow in size. Where does the money come from to pay for these new 600k gov't jobs?

Since everyone is already tapped out, what we can do is tax directly the new 2.4 million private sector jobs at a level high enough to pay for the 600k gov't jobs. This means that every 4 new private sector job holders, they pay an amount equal to the total costs of 1 new public sector job hold. This would work as it would also allow the new budget expenditure to balance and would negate the need to borrow money and inflate the debt as Bush did. I mean, Bush was rightly condemned for his fiscal irresponsibility in both out of balance budgets and massive debt increases. Taxing the new private sector jobs directly to pay for the entire cost of the new public sector jobs would be a great way for the new President and his party to show real fiscal repsonsibility and setting an example of not living beyond one's means.


I look forward to watching our new President set such a wonderful example!


Did I ever tell you guys just how long I can hold my breath?

Question is ,Will the private secter job Czar's hire legal citizens at live-able wages, or continue hiring illegal's and low wage immigrants, then your scenario could paint an even bleaker picture.
I'm trying to stay positive, but you always bring me down. I'm hoping some of those inefficient public secter job programs with the Bush Administration can be sub-ed out to private secters. With Bush tax cuts to expire and Obama's tax plan in effect , we got 3 million more tax paying consumers to off set the public secter new hires making purchases, paying sales tax but also increasing profits to their villages and communities which could also spur on more jobs and create a new economic growth movement among the private secter and increase federal revenue. Might also have an effect on welfare claims, un-employment pay outs, ease the burden on our criminal justice system, etc...It probably will get worse before it gets better, so I hope we won't need the defibulater to get your heart started after holding your breath--------------CLEAR...Zap him, he's flatlined---------------------^^--^^--^^--^^--Ok, we got a pulse..

 

[stringerman85]

Chicago....

Who Runs it?
Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Representative: Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Illinois Governor: Rod Blogojevich (arrested)
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan
Illinois Attorney General: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
Chicago Mayor: Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)
The leadership in Illinois ? All Democrats.



Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago .



Body count in the last six months: 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago
221 killed in Iraq



State pension fund - $44 Billion in debt, worst in the country.
Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax - 10.25% highest in country. (Look it up).
Chicago school system - rated one of the worst in the country.
Of course, they're all blaming each other. They can't blame Republicans because there aren't any.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois .
And he's going to '"fix" Washington politics for us?
Good luck and may God help us.

Thanks 4rpb, is that you? or did you completely copy that from the site
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/friend-news/2122508/posts?q=1&;page=1

 

[av8torntn]

Looks like it is time for an orderly withdrawal from Chicago.